Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

[艹艹艹]

 

[Deino]

Wow

https://twitter.com/x/status/1430790249245036544

 

[redtom]

J-16
View attachment 761291View attachment 761292View attachment 761293
Via 央广军事

The manufacturing level of the J16 is significantly higher than that of the J11. Looks like a 5th generation fighter.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Of late all the J-16 images feature birds with long-feathered WS-10 nozzles.

 

[Akasa]

Huitong:

The latest rumor (October 2021) suggested that the first serial production J-11D just rolled down the assembly line.

Possible source: https://weibo.com/6095935299/KDWO1pzlE

 

[Deino]

Huitong:

Possible source: https://weibo.com/6095935299/KDWO1pzlE

But wasn't the original "source" - aka @鼎盛大彪 - the same one who claimed, the J-35 had made its maiden flight last week?
So either the guys at SAC are keeping there secrets really tight or he just spreads rumours ...

 

[Deino]

J-16D in service

https://twitter.com/x/status/1456971798168408068

 

[khanasifm]

 

[kungfugymnast]

This man said J-11D prototype undergone testing superior than Su-35. Deino kept saying there won't be J-11D so who is right?

Also noticed the specifications of few flankers variants in Wikipedia kept changing the top speed therefore need clarification from those know how here:

Su-27SK
Max speed Mach 2.35
Max thrust per engine 27,600lb aft

J-11A
Max speed Mach 2.1
Max thrust per engine 29,670lb aft

Su-33
Max speed Mach 2.1
Max thrust per engine 28,200lb aft

J-15A
Max speed Mach 2.4
Max thrust per engine 27,600lb aft

J-16
Max speed Mach 2
Max thrust per engine 31,000lb aft

Su-30MKK
Max speed Mach 2
Max thrust per engine 28,000lb aft

Su-35S
Max speed Mach 2.25
Max thrust per engine 32,000lb aft

Earlier from military aircraft encyclopedia with information from military expo, they all stated Su-27/30/35 without forward canard max speed at Mach 2.35 while Su-30MK/35 with forward canard max speed reduced to Mach 2.25. Su-33 max speed at Mach 2.1 due to less aerodynamic design than Su-30MK with forward canard. Only in recent years, all Su-30 max speed in Wikipedia listed max speed at Mach 2 being slower than Su-33 without mentioning with canard or without canard. Which is correct?

J-11A in Wikipedia has almost exact design as Su-27SK except with indigenous WS-10A generating over 2,000lb more, why is the max speed only at Mach 2.1 slower than original Su-27SK?

 

[johncliu88]

I don't think I will trust those numbers. Just wondering why these figures were coming out from Indian media?

 

[Deino]

This man said J-11D prototype undergone testing superior than Su-35. Deino kept saying there won't be J-11D so who is right?
...

The problem is once again; for the sake of your argument you pick up a strange source, "question" with a rhetoric question on who is more credible a certain issue that fits your agenda and connect it with there have been recent changes on Wiki concerning some Flanker's top speed ... so what??

Wiki could be changed by anyone - maybe even you!? - and why should he be more credible than me? And finally, does it make sense? IMO if you are only focused on top-speed you completely miss other aspects like "does a restart of a Flanker" makes any sense at all, does it fit to the PLAAF strategic thinking?

As such I stand to my argument; It does not especialyl not a new-built ones and top speed is only interesting for kids playing Quartet's game.

 

[lcloo]

Chasing high speed is so post-korea war mind, thus the appearance of "century series" fighter jets. Vietnam war proved that blindly chasing high speed was a mis-guided doctrine as they found that slower sub-sonic MIG-17 was a bigger threat than supersonic MIG-21, and the super fast F-104 Starfighter performed disappointedly in Vietnam in their MIG killer missions.

High speed is of no use in dog-fight, nor is it an advantage in BVR fight. Today's fighter jet should emphasis on sensors and information processing, as well as capable missiles.

 

[Deino]

I stated in my post, anyone could assist to correct the mistakes by Wikipedia and explained why are the top speed of few flankers different. Since you claimed you're more expert than aircraft engineers on aerodynamic, can you provide the correct specifications of all the flankers bought and built by China in their inventory?

Is top speed of J-11A/B/D without forward canard the same as Su-27SK at Mach 2.35? Also how come Su-33 top speed at Mach 2.1 but J-15A at Mach 2.4 while J-16 with much powerful engines and Su-30MKK at only Mach 2?

These questions are relevant to this thread, don't try to drag trolling and moderator into this since you said my post taken from aircraft aerodynamic engineers is wrong. Also why is J-11D prototype photo under testing being posted by several authors when you insisted that it will not be built?

Don't lie again ...

I never claimed I am "more expert than aircraft engineers on aerodynamic" - that's a blatant lie! - I only questioned this gentlemen's credibility, turned down your stupid relationship to speed only and asked, WHY should the PLAAF re-open J-11D production, when there is no need for new-built fighter Flankers and no other rumours say so. All you replied is again some blabla on speed, insults and derail of the real questions.

Even more, not only "anyone could assist to correct the mistakes by Wikipedia" ... in fact "anyone could add mistakes in order do deliberately fool others!"

Therefore don't troll around since again it is a lie; i never claimed "to provide the correct specifications of all the flankers bought and built by China in their inventory"!

So again WHY should be any of your claims correct, why do you constantly lie, provoke and insult with such post and even more post deliberately BS like in the J-15 thread and when proven wrong start the same story again?

 

[kungfugymnast]

Don't lie again ...

I never claimed I am "more expert than aircraft engineers on aerodynamic" - that's a blatant lie! - I only questioned this gentlemen's credibility, turned down your stupid relationship to speed only and asked, WHY should the PLAAF re-open J-11D production, when there is no need for new-built fighter Flankers and no other rumours say so. All you replied is again some blabla on speed, insults and derail of the real questions.

Even more, not only "anyone could assist to correct the mistakes by Wikipedia" ... in fact "anyone could add mistakes in order do deliberately fool others!"

Therefore don't troll around since again it is a lie; i never claimed "to provide the correct specifications of all the flankers bought and built by China in their inventory"!

So again WHY should be any of your claims correct, why do you constantly lie, provoke and insult with such post and even more post deliberately BS like in the J-15 thread and when proven wrong start the same story again?

@gambit
Please assist to explain to Deino the reasons of different top speed for the different flanker variants in China inventory. I have explained to him based on aviation engineering books and answers from the US Navy fighter pilots, my country fighter pilots that I have met. Yet he kept saying those are my own made up story. Welcome back to CDF by the way.


@WebMaster
Do not pick side and stay neutral. Gambit is far more knowledgeable and could explain on aerodynamic better since he has flown real combat aircraft. Many including you sure wanted to know why the different flankers have different top speed. The photo below taken during US friendly port of call where I got a tour together with local military, PLA general & Pakistan admiral. I asked the pilots on aerodynamic of carrier based fighters. Deino said those are lies.

 

[Super Falcon]

For me J 16D really steals the show best electrnic warfare aircraft