Chinese Carrier Battle Group

[seven7seven]

Probably impossible for china to have 6 CBG by 2025.

First, the estimate time to build a 40-50 k ton carrier for China is currently 3.5 years, even US require 2 years 9 months to pump out an American Class LHD, realistically if the six carrier Chinese is going to have is a 40-50k class, they will need to wait till 2030-2035 to be able to build all 6, time will change to 4 years per for US to build a 100k tons of super carrier .

Then come the support ship problem, 6 CBG require about 60 support ship (30 of those are AAW destroyer @5 per CBG) the current way Chinese do thing, it took 2 years per ship, and 2-3 ship be built at the same time, which take at least 30 years to build alone, which realistically will not be done by 2043

And finally the crew, 6 CBG would require about 30k crew, either china divert the current crew from some other place or they will need to recruit 30k more sailor on top of the normal recruitment level, no way you can get that number done by 2025 as at best you can get 1k or 2k more per year

Ambition goal is good, but you need to be realisticrealistic

While I agree building 6 new CBG by 2025 is a tall order, I certainly wouldn't use the US as a measuring stick as to how fast a nation can do something. China has consistently shown over the last few decades how they surpass every Western estimate of what they believe China can achieve, both economically and militarily. China do not have the same political red-tape that slows down US military projects and military spending is given all the necessary priority, both in resources and manpower. China wants to achieve near-parity with the US militarily, as soon as possible, and the navy in particular is of primary importance. If anyone can achieve such lofty targets, I believe China is the country to do it.

 

[Oldman1]

While I agree building 6 new CBG by 2025 is a tall order, I certainly wouldn't use the US as a measuring stick as to how fast a nation can do something. China has consistently shown over the last few decades how they surpass every Western estimate of what they believe China can achieve, both economically and militarily. China do not have the same political red-tape that slows down US military projects and military spending is given all the necessary priority, both in resources and manpower. China wants to achieve near-parity with the US militarily, as soon as possible, and the navy in particular is of primary importance. If anyone can achieve such lofty targets, I believe China is the country to do it.

Unless they are preparing for war to achieve that much speed. U.S. had barely a handful of carriers in pre-WW2. By the end of WW2 we had a hundred aircraft carriers in 3 year span.

 

[jhungary]

While I agree building 6 new CBG by 2025 is a tall order, I certainly wouldn't use the US as a measuring stick as to how fast a nation can do something. China has consistently shown over the last few decades how they surpass every Western estimate of what they believe China can achieve, both economically and militarily. China do not have the same political red-tape that slows down US military projects and military spending is given all the necessary priority, both in resources and manpower. China wants to achieve near-parity with the US militarily, as soon as possible, and the navy in particular is of primary importance. If anyone can achieve such lofty targets, I believe China is the country to do it.

The problem is, this is not "the western standard" this is the physical limit of how fast a certain ship can build, the world, china included is using the modular ship building method to build a complex ship like this, while being modular building, you need to fabricate a certain part before you move on the next stage. And that require ascertain set amount of time to finish one certain part before moving on to the next part.

The different China can mass even if they want will be trivial, the only thing you can hurry the production is a very trivial and it would not make a different on a grand scheme of thing (like instead of working 10 hours per shift, Chinese work 12)

Be that if you may, if China are still using the modular ship building, you will be at best on par with western ship building time, but you cannot super cede anything as the technology is the same, you are talking about material science here, things like how long to wait for steel to harden and how long it takes for the mould to settle. Those time will not get any significantly shorter as technology progress, it's not like if china bend more worker together and they can push out a ship faster

Also, beside the physical scientific constrain, you also need to know China only have one coast vs US two, Chinese are 50% less capable to start with, so they will need to work 200% to match the west full effort, so Chinese literally need to work 210% to be 10% quicker than the west.

Those are the fact, not blind fanboyism

And try as you might, China will never going to be on par with the US military, China is a regional force, while US is a global force, say if China can make 11 super carrier tomorrow, where are you going to put them?

The reason why US can accommodate 11 super carrier and 9 light carrier because US have 37 overseas bases, china have none. US cannot put all their military equipment in cont US and China is roughly the same size of US, go figure

 

[jhungary]

Unless they are preparing for war to achieve that much speed. U.S. had barely a handful of carriers in pre-WW2. By the end of WW2 we had a hundred aircraft carriers in 3 year span.

That was a different case, we drop everything during WW2 and just make Fleet carrier, escort carrier.

If Chinese do the same now, they will be bankrupt in a years, as the manufacture power is what popping Chinese economy

 

[Beast]

The problem is, this is not "the western standard" this is the physical limit of how fast a certain ship can build, the world, china included is using the modular ship building method to build a complex ship like this, while being modular building, you need to fabricate a certain part before you move on the next stage. And that require ascertain set amount of time to finish one certain part before moving on to the next part.

The different China can mass even if they want will be trivial, the only thing you can hurry the production is a very trivial and it would not make a different on a grand scheme of thing (like instead of working 10 hours per shift, Chinese work 12)

Be that if you may, if China are still using the modular ship building, you will be at best on par with western ship building time, but you cannot super cede anything as the technology is the same, you are talking about material science here, things like how long to wait for steel to harden and how long it takes for the mould to settle. Those time will not get any significantly shorter as technology progress, it's not like if china bend more worker together and they can push out a ship faster

Also, beside the physical scientific constrain, you also need to know China only have one coast vs US two, Chinese are 50% less capable to start with, so they will need to work 200% to match the west full effort, so Chinese literally need to work 210% to be 10% quicker than the west.

Those are the fact, not blind fanboyism

And try as you might, China will never going to be on par with the US military, China is a regional force, while US is a global force, say if China can make 11 super carrier tomorrow, where are you going to put them?

The reason why US can accommodate 11 super carrier and 9 light carrier because US have 37 overseas bases, china have none. US cannot put all their military equipment in cont US and China is roughly the same size of US, go figure

The show your strength is never depend on how many overseas bases you have. If you have 40 over bases spread around the world while only 1 CV. Are you going to called yourself a global forces?

While another country has only 1 base while packed with 12 CV together. You still naively think thats regional forces?

 

[xuxu1457]

Two 093 type nuke subs in front

 

[Genesis]

That was a different case, we drop everything during WW2 and just make Fleet carrier, escort carrier.

If Chinese do the same now, they will be bankrupt in a years, as the manufacture power is what popping Chinese economy

As oppose to the Americans at that time right, you do know who the former world's manufacturer is before China right.

Also, manufacturing ships is much more efficient now with computers and better technology, we won't have to drop much to make a dozen battle groups, it's just not the greatest thing to do without a valid reason.


Now onto your never matching US forces, all I will say is this, America is not the first empire, and it's not even the most powerful.

British had far more colonies and bases than the Americans, Rome had more land, Napoleon controlled pretty much the continental Europe, while Russia for a time was the judge, jury and executioner or Europe, but that's all in the past now. The sun always sets, if it can set for China after 2000 years of dominance, it be more but the other "states" were too sparsely populated to dominate at that time, and it will set for the States.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

While I agree building 6 new CBG by 2025 is a tall order

While I think it would be very possible I don't think it will happen and not for the reasons stated here.

The Chinese Navy isn't going to build multiple carriers until they finalize a design. As you can see they have a test ship now and the next carrier probably won't look anything like it.

The first indigenous one will also be a test ship. They are going to put it through tests and figure out what is wrong and what is right.

The second indigenous ship will incorporate those new fixes and add some new cutting edge tech. It will be a true blue water carrier.

The third ship will be the real ship. If all goes well they crank out copies of it.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

We will have six CBG by 2025, and dozens of 052D/055 Agies DDG.

China should have at least 3 CBG and 2 aircraft carriers for backup and training, Six CBG will be freaking expensives for maintain.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Unless they are preparing for war to achieve that much speed. U.S. had barely a handful of carriers in pre-WW2. By the end of WW2 we had a hundred aircraft carriers in 3 year span.

List of countries by steel production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by aluminium production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Oldman1]

List of countries by steel production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by aluminium production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LOL! Can you imagine if you went to war with U.S. with its economy based on manufacturing only at 3% of its GDP? Thats just 3%. Its like one American farmer making more food compared to a thousand farmers in Africa all put together.

As oppose to the Americans at that time right, you do know who the former world's manufacturer is before China right.

Also, manufacturing ships is much more efficient now with computers and better technology, we won't have to drop much to make a dozen battle groups, it's just not the greatest thing to do without a valid reason.


Now onto your never matching US forces, all I will say is this, America is not the first empire, and it's not even the most powerful.

British had far more colonies and bases than the Americans, Rome had more land, Napoleon controlled pretty much the continental Europe, while Russia for a time was the judge, jury and executioner or Europe, but that's all in the past now. The sun always sets, if it can set for China after 2000 years of dominance, it be more but the other "states" were too sparsely populated to dominate at that time, and it will set for the States.

Well we are not concerned about colonies are we? Or have any territorial ambitions like China is eh?

That was a different case, we drop everything during WW2 and just make Fleet carrier, escort carrier.

If Chinese do the same now, they will be bankrupt in a years, as the manufacture power is what popping Chinese economy

Considering a war with U.S. leads to sanctions on all Chinese products going to U.S. as well as allies that will follow. And blockades...

 

[Speeder 2]

The reason why US can accommodate 11 super carrier and 9 light carrier because US have 37 overseas bases, china have none. US cannot put all their military equipment in cont US and China is roughly the same size of US, go figure

Great powers will never use carriers against each other in the drastically changed post ww2 era, because they all have capabilities to sink carriers if forced.

And once any is sinked, you can be sure that the suffering side won't take it well and it will soon become a nuclear exchange...

Therefore 11 CBG or not, they're no use to deal with China.

In post WW2, the scare & awe power of XX 1000s ton of diplomacy will only be used as a bragging right to maintain spheres of influences and as a real weapon system against weak nations or small-mid sized powers such as Iraq or India. BTW India, with its small dirty bombs, is far from a real nuke power. The only REAL nuke powers in the world are Russia, USA and China of UNSC 5. France and the UK are geographycally too small to threaten the former 3 with a nuclear exchange.

 

[j20blackdragon]

LOL! Can you imagine if you went to war with U.S. with its economy based on manufacturing only at 3% of its GDP? Thats just 3%. Its like one American farmer making more food compared to a thousand farmers in Africa all put together.

I have no idea what you just said. Please go back to preschool, learn some basic English and economic skills, and then come back.

List of countries by steel production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by aluminium production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Speeder 2]

self-delete

Considering a war with U.S. leads to sanctions on all Chinese products going to U.S. as well as allies that will follow. And blockades...

You Indians are dilusional whichever country you are.

There will be no war amongst great powers in post WW2 era, but only supra-millitary means such as resources war, diplomacy stand-offs, and the most important currency war which has been going on for at least a decade. And guess what, China is winning against the US. Anyway, why you Indian cheerleaders are excited on stuff related to the Chinese and Yankees?

 

[Oldman1]

I have no idea what you just said. Please go back to preschool, learn some basic English and economic skills, and then come back.

List of countries by steel production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by aluminium production - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You don't know the basics of manufacturing. Just because you can produce that much aluminum don't mean crap. As I said before that an American farmer with the technology and methods can produce more than lets say a farmer from overseas. It takes a thousand farmers to match what an American produces. Its like saying it takes more than a billion Chinese to achieve the same amount of GDP of American population of only 300 million. Get it?

self-delete



You Indians are dilusional whichever country you are.

There will be no war amongst great powers in post WW2 era, but only supra-millitary means such as resources war, diplomacy stand-offs, and the most important currency war which has been going on for at least a decade. And guess what, China is winning against the US. Anyway, why you Indian cheerleaders are excited on stuff related to the Chinese and Yankees?

No its a fact. You go to war with U.S., the Chinese suffers. And if you want me to be Indian to you. Thats fine.