China’s Submarine Fleet, Evolution & news

[ChineseTiger1986]

Pardon, but why is one who don't speak Chinese or any certain foreign language - including myself - a troll if he asks for clarification?

That's exactly what I don't get here... esp. since it makes any useful discussion so hard.

Deino

Keep patronizing these trolls as you want, most Chinese members simply won't take you seriously.

 

[Deino]

Keep patronizing these trolls as you want, most Chinese members simply won't take you seriously.

Honestly I regret this attitude: To ignore or don't take anyone seriously only since he's critical stops all discussion right from the beginning.
So it's again the same; it seems as if either some of You simply cannot or do not want to argue what in return leads to the strange and IMO stupid situation that You don't take these critical ones seriously while in return I cannot take these fan-boys seriously. The consequence is; no discussion at all!

Why is it patronising if I ask? Isn't this the meaning of a forum especially since a forum where foreigners of different cultural background and languages come together to "discuss"?

If it would be a placard where certain Chinese members just teach the stupid foreigners it would be fine - but then most would not visit this site -, but since it is a forum IMO a decent and honest discussion including uncomfortable or even critical questions MUST be allowed. Or do You disagree?

Sometimes i really don't get it and it seems as if a few have the opinion as if they are god-equal and all they say MUST be taken without and critical request.

Deino

 

[samsara]

Pardon, but why is one who don't speak Chinese or any certain foreign language - including myself - a troll if he asks for clarification?

That's exactly what I don't get here... esp. since it makes any useful discussion so hard.

Deino

Deino, you should be aware of this persona's true thought from his many traces at this column, well, most of the times are well guarded, not so distinctive except this briefly spotted one showed its very true colour , though the post was later removed but I kept a screenshot there pls read it here. Then you will grasp why we don't simply judge from the face values, moreover at the internet forum, faceless interactions whereas every persona can claim as whatever it is (just info, the organized psy-ops thru socmed incl. forums are real deal, few advanced nations are well known for employing an army of prof internet psyop forces incl. the famous Hasbara from ISR ) , merely through the written expressions ... consistency is the key
。。。

 

[Han Patriot]

Pardon, but why is one who don't speak Chinese or any certain foreign language - including myself - a troll if he asks for clarification?

That's exactly what I don't get here... esp. since it makes any useful discussion so hard.

Deino

Dont get me wrong Deino....no discrimination but he is pretending to be Chinese.

 

[Brainsucker]

Deino, you should be aware of this persona's true thought from his many traces at this column, well, most of the times are well guarded, not so distinctive except this briefly spotted one showed its very true colour , though the post was later removed but I kept a screenshot there pls read it here. Then you will grasp why we don't simply judge from the face values, moreover at the internet forum, faceless interactions whereas every persona can claim as whatever it is (just info, the organized psy-ops thru socmed incl. forums are real deal, few advanced nations are well known for employing an army of prof internet psyop forces incl. the famous Hasbara from ISR ) , merely through the written expressions ... consistency is the key
。。。

Well, I'm surprise about that... quote. I never know that Sino Soldier hates China like that.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

NEW CSIC SUBMARINE MODELS SHOW CHINA’S GROWING DESIGN PROWESS

November 25, 2017

China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation S1100 conventional attack submarine. Photo source: Navy Recognition (www.navyrecognition.com)
Country PortfolioAsia Pacific
Nov 23, 2017Bilal Khan -
NEW CSIC SUBMARINE MODELS SHOW CHINA’S GROWING DESIGN PROWESS
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China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) revealed three new conventional submarine models, each with a single-hull structure and teardrop-design, at Defense and Security defence exhibition, which took place from November 6 to 9 in Bangkok, Thailand.

Joining the S20 and S26 double-hull models, CSIC’s new designs are the MS200 miniature submarine and the S600 and S1100 conventional attack submarines (Navy Recognition). The S600 and S1100 are also available with optional air-independent propulsion (AIP), enabling these submarines to operate undersea without snorkeling for oxygen, potentially for up to several weeks depending on the AIP system.

The S1100 displaces 1,100 tons and has a length of 60 m, breath of 5.6 m and height of 6.8 m. CSIC says it has a top speed of 15 knots while submerged and diving depth of 200 m. If equipped with AIP, the S1100 can reach a range of 800 nautical miles while submerged. Accommodating a crew of 18 personnel, the S1100 has an endurance of 30 days and is equipped with four torpedo tubes.

The S600 displaces 600 tons. It has a length of 50 m, breath of 4.6 m and height of 5.6 m. Like the S1100, it has a top underwater speed of 15 knots and diving depth of 200 m. With AIP, the S600 has a range of 600 nautical miles while submerged. It is crewed by 15 personnel and is equipped with four torpedo tubes. The S600 has an endurance of 20 days.

While a miniature submarine, the 200-ton MS200 is equipped with two torpedo tubes. It has a length of 30 m, breath of 3.6 m and height of 4.4 m. The MS200 has a top speed of 8 knots and a submerged range of 120 nautical miles. It can dive to up to 200 m and stay at sea for 15 days. Unlike the S1100 and S600, the MS200 does not come with an AIP option. Alongside its crew of six, the MS200 can deploy eight special operations forces (SOF) operatives.

Notes & Comments:

The most notable aspect of the S1100 and S600 compared to the S26 and S20 is that the former are single-hull designs, which depart from the double-hull staple that has traditionally informed Chinese submarine design. These single-hull designs are both lighter weight and potentially cheaper in thorough-life costs.

As a sub-1,000-ton design, the S600 – like the BMT Wyvern and Vidar-7 – can be an attractive low-cost submarine for navies seeking to cheaply raise new or augment existing submarine fleets. The S600 is fully capable of anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-ship warfare (AShW).

However, unlike BMT, which had fused the asymmetrical qualities of a miniature submarine to its 700-ton attack submarine, CSIC seems to have opted to offer separate platforms for asymmetrical (e.g. frogmen) and conventional AShW/ASW. Though it is equipped with two torpedo tubes, the MS200 is likely geared for infiltration and deploying frogmen. In fact, the MS200 does not appear to have a dedicated tube for deploying swimmer delivery vehicles (SDV), which may suggest that at least one torpedo tube is required for SDV use. The Vidar-7 has a dedicated tube for SDVs in addition to four torpedo tubes.

CSIC’s recent reveal also poses new questions regarding Pakistan’s Hangor (II) AIP submarine program. While generally speculated to be a variant of the S26, neither Pakistan or CSIC have disclosed the specific make or model of the Hangor (II). The Pakistan Navy is expecting to receive its first of eight new submarines in 2022 (and all eight by 2028, with four to be built in Pakistan).

It is plausible that CSIC’s new designs are a factor in the Hangor (II) program. While the Agosta 70 and Agosta 90B are double-hull designs, the PN could look to a single-hull design as a means to cut long-term maintenance and operating costs, which could be a potential strain considering that the PN will operate a quantitatively large fleet. Moreover, the submerged range of the S1100 (with AIP) should credibly cover Pakistan’s exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of 350 nautical miles. Interestingly, compared Thailand’s AIP-equipped S26T design, the AIP-equipped S1100 has a slightly longer submerged ferry range (800 nm vs. 768 nm), though the S1100’s mixed range is substantially lower (3,000 nm vs. 8,000 nm).

However, there are potential drawbacks. Unlike the S20 and S26, the S600 and S1100 have fewer torpedo tubes (four vs. six) for heavyweight torpedoes and anti-ship missiles. Granted, the PN’s Khalid-class Agosta 90B is also equipped with four torpedo tubes, but an increase in individual payload would be a valuable gain to augment the overall fleet increase. On the other hand, one could speculate that there is a chance that CSIC has – or could design – a larger single-hull model with six torpedo tubes.

The MS200 may also be of interest to Pakistan. In its 2015-2016 yearbook, Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence Production revealed that Karachi Shipyard & Engineering Works (KSEW) was given a target to construct a miniature submarine. Turkey’s Savunma Teknolojileri Mühendislik ve Ticaret A.Ş. (STM) had proposed co-developing a miniature submarine with KSEW to replace the PN’s Cosmos MG110. However, it is not known if the PN will proceed with the STM program or pursue an alternative, in which case, the MS200 is a plausible option. Besides providing a platform for SOF, the MS200’s two torpedo tubes may also provide anti-ship warfare capabilities suitable for anti-access and area-denial efforts in Pakistan’s littoral waters.

 

[samsara]

"Mass" production of Chinese nuclear submarines?

https://twitter.com/x/status/941231340548128768

Article in French:

"Mass" production of Chinese nuclear submarines?

By Henri Kenhmann - 14 December 2017
http://www.eastpendulum.com/production-masse-marins-nucleaires-chinois

China seems to want to produce "mass production" its new generation nuclear submarines, it is in any case what say, in a subtle way, the latest publications of Bohai shipyard. It is here that all the nuclear attack submarines (SSN) and submarine nuclear missile launchers (SSBN) of the Chinese Navy have been produced since 1968.

(...)

Several senior political and industrial leaders have visited the Institute 719 and the Bohai Shipyard since this summer. For example:

• The visit of the CEO of the CSIC group to the Institut 719 on August 22, where he heard about the progress made on a "capital project"
• The inspection of the Deputy Director General of CSIC from 11 to 12 September on the application of safety standards
• The visit of another Deputy Director General of CSIC on September 12 on the management and planning of human and material resources. He renewed his visit a second time, by the way, on November 21st.
• The official visit of the Chairman of the Supervisory Board, sent by the State Council and seconded to the CSIC, to monitor the production situation

This unusual frequency of visits and high-level inspections is also indirect evidence that the launch of so-called "mass production" is imminent.
。。。

 

[leapx]

"Mass" production of Chinese nuclear submarines?

https://twitter.com/x/status/941231340548128768

Article in French:

"Mass" production of Chinese nuclear submarines?

By Henri Kenhmann - 14 December 2017
http://www.eastpendulum.com/production-masse-marins-nucleaires-chinois

China seems to want to produce "mass production" its new generation nuclear submarines, it is in any case what say, in a subtle way, the latest publications of Bohai shipyard. It is here that all the nuclear attack submarines (SSN) and submarine nuclear missile launchers (SSBN) of the Chinese Navy have been produced since 1968.

(...)

Several senior political and industrial leaders have visited the Institute 719 and the Bohai Shipyard since this summer. For example:

• The visit of the CEO of the CSIC group to the Institut 719 on August 22, where he heard about the progress made on a "capital project"
• The inspection of the Deputy Director General of CSIC from 11 to 12 September on the application of safety standards
• The visit of another Deputy Director General of CSIC on September 12 on the management and planning of human and material resources. He renewed his visit a second time, by the way, on November 21st.
• The official visit of the Chairman of the Supervisory Board, sent by the State Council and seconded to the CSIC, to monitor the production situation

This unusual frequency of visits and high-level inspections is also indirect evidence that the launch of so-called "mass production" is imminent.
。。。

Chinese nuclear submarines are definitely the most protected. We can only guess based on limited information.

But if we are going to mass produce nuclear submarines, most likely that means we have some impressive technical breakthrough that is mature and advanced, just like 054A and 052D.

 

[Deino]

A trip down the memory lane ... the first 093 launching back in 2002

Please do attach the file or image directly here at PDF. Hotlinking an image from another forum is not unwise since the image rarely works and if the link is down or broken it is lost.

Deino

 

[INDIAPOSITIVE]

After a Chinese nuclear attack submarine was discovered by the Japanese navy while submerged near disputed islands in the East China Sea, military experts say it could be too easy to detect.

The PLA Navy’s 110-metre Shang-class submarine surfaced in international waters with a Chinese flag on its mast on January 12 after it was followed by the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force for two days.

Some military experts believe the vessel was forced to surface, but others say there is not enough information to back up that theory.

China’s defence ministry has not responded to inquiries from the South China Morning Post regarding the incident.

What is known is that the submarine entered the contiguous zone less than 24 nautical miles from the contested Diaoyu Islands, which are known as the Senkakus in Japan.

Relations between China and Japan have long been tense because of historical issues and their territorial disputes over the tiny, uninhabited archipelago – which lies between Taiwan and the southern Japanese island of Okinawa – that is controlled by Japan but also claimed by China.

It was the first time a Chinese navy submarine had come so close to the islands, leading to speculation that it was an apparent move by China to demonstrate its sovereignty claim.

But the early and long exposure of its underwater trajectory, according to military experts, suggests the vessel is not as quiet as it should be. Japan’s defence ministry said anti-submarine ships and planes had been tracking the Chinese submarine since January 10.

China’s nuclear attack submarine has been in service since 2006, carrying out missions in the Indian Ocean and Western Pacific. Two of the submarines, type 093, were built in the 2000s, and at least two more – the upgraded type 093A – were commissioned in 2016, according to a report to the US Congress in 2017.

Japan did not say whether the submarine spotted near its waters was one of the earlier vessels or the upgrade, but experts say it was the newer type. That submarine is believed to have a vertical launch system for anti-ship YJ-18 cruise missiles, and was expected to be on par with the United States’ Los Angeles-class submarines – or at least much quieter than its notoriously noisy predecessor, the type 091 Han-class.

“This is such a shame for the navy,” said a Beijing-based military source, who requested anonymity, adding that the vessel was detected because it was “too noisy”.

The incident has also shown the strong anti-submarine capabilities of Japan, which has the technological backing of the US military, according to military commentator Zhou Chenming in Beijing.

“It’s not so bad that they’ve been exposed, it could push the Chinese to work harder on making the submarines quieter,” Zhou said. “As a strong military power China should be confident enough not to cover up its weaknesses and failures.”

Chinese nuclear attack submarine that raised flag in international waters may have been testing Japan’s patrol capabilities

It is also unusual that a nuclear submarine – which could stay underwater for months – surfaced in front of another navy, given that they usually strive to stay unseen and undetected.

“Once a submarine has been exposed and its unique acoustics have been recorded, it puts them at a great disadvantage,” said Li Jie, a researcher at the Naval Military Studies Research Institute in Beijing.

In 2004, a type 091 Han-class nuclear submarine was detected as it trespassed in Japanese territorial waters near the recent incident. But it remained submerged until it returned to Chinese waters, despite being chased by Japanese ships and planes dropping sonobuoys, which pick up underwater sounds and transmit them.

Macau-based military expert Antony Wong Dong believed the nuclear attack submarine was forced to surface, and said it was “dumb” of the Chinese navy to allow its features to be seen and photographed.

He also dismissed claims that the submarine was flying a Chinese flag to assert its claim to sovereignty over the Diaoyus, noting that it surfaced in international waters.


http://www.defencenews.in/article/C...are-way-too-easy-to-Detect-and-Destroy-526085

 

[UKBengali]

@Chinese-Dragon
@ChineseTiger1986

Before Indians get too excited, we need to know whether it was the earlier Type-093 SSN or the newer Type-093G SSN which is much quieter.
Even if it was the latter, China is putting the finishing touches to it's new Type-095 SSN that has a revolutionary propulsion system and will be one of the quietest, if not the quietest, nuclear submarine in the world.

 

[Beast]

"Some military experts believe the vessel was forced to surface, but others say there is not enough information to back up that theory."

“This is such a shame for the navy,” said a Beijing-based military source, who requested anonymity, adding that the vessel was detected because it was “too noisy”.


LOL.. The Chinese SSN purposely emerged itself and fly flag to exert sovereignty and see how hater claim its being detected and spin as easily detected?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

@Chinese-Dragon
@ChineseTiger1986

Before Indians get too excited, we need to know whether it was the earlier Type-093 SSN or the newer Type-093G SSN which is much quieter.
Even if it was the latter, China is putting the finishing touches to it's new Type-095 SSN that has a revolutionary propulsion system and will be one of the quietest, if not the quietest, nuclear submarine in the world.

The Type 093B is equivalent to the Virginia class, while the Type 095 is arguably superior to both Seawolf and Virginia.

Since China's official media has already confirmed it, and I won't take the words from the anti-China bashers seriously.

 

[Beast]

@Chinese-Dragon
@ChineseTiger1986

Before Indians get too excited, we need to know whether it was the earlier Type-093 SSN or the newer Type-093G SSN which is much quieter.
Even if it was the latter, China is putting the finishing touches to it's new Type-095 SSN that has a revolutionary propulsion system and will be one of the quietest, if not the quietest, nuclear submarine in the world.

It does not matter. The submariner purposely emerged itself to show flag and was spinned as followed and detected by fake news.

Let me show you all the real article to prove all these haters wrong...

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...k-sub-japans-defense-chief-says/#.Wm3mQ66WbIU

Maybe hater will claim the Chinese sub showing flag is trying to surrender itself? Haters has no limit to their imagination.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Notice these kind of articles always use 'anonymous' sources.

They make up a bull shit line and back it up with anonymity.