China's Huawei offers to share source code

[Martian2]

This is where I give up.

If you want to compare currency rates from the old Soviet days of 1990, be my guest. I don't think too many people would agree with you that it is relevant. India has had SEVEN prime ministers since 1990. Rajiv Gandhi has just recently been assassinated. Russia did not exist. No one knew about Vladimir Putin. Gorbachev was still in control of the nuclear button.

There you have it. China is cheating on its currency because someone traced its value back to Soviet times and they don't like it. Whatever. I'm waiting for an Indian to trace it back to Roman times.

Regarding the threatened ban of Huawei and ZTE telecoms equipment from being imported into India on the false pretext of national security for CIVILIAN purposes, there is nothing more that I can say. You can make all the excuses that you want, but an objective view is that India is violating WTO rules.

I will leave the last word to all of you. I draw a line when the debate extends back to the SOVIET era. I simply do not have the time to fight off an Indian horde. There are too many of you!

 

[deepak75]

This is where I give up.

If you want to compare currency rates from the old Soviet days of 1990, be my guest. I don't think too many people would agree with you that it is relevant. India has had SEVEN prime ministers since 1990. Rajiv Gandhi has just recently been assassinated. Russia did not exist. No one knew about Vladimir Putin. Gorbachev was still in control of the nuclear button.

There you have it. China is cheating on its currency because someone traced its value back to Soviet times and they don't like it. Whatever. I'm waiting for an Indian to trace it back to Roman times.

There is actually no need for us to fight my friend. I have Chinese friends and we never fight, we respect each other.

It is clear that the Chinese government policies were that they only want to increase their current account surplus and push their exports. In this process they continually kept the exchange rate fixed from 1996 to 2006 and kept their exports cheap.

In fact this step by China was the first step in creating the South Asian Crisis of 1997 and crashing all the economies in South East Asia after that. After that the Chinese continued to keep the currency fixed till the Korean economy also lost its export market to China.


Recently when the Korean Won dropped again in 2009 due to the recession China again instead of apprecaiting its currency decided to give a 1 billion dollar credit line to Korea. They did it because they were scared that at such lower Won may be today Korea is in trouble but the Korean exports will now very soon become cheaper than the Chinese and that will create a problem for China. That is why Chinese government gave Korea a 1 Billion Dollar credit line.

If the Chinese government allows the Yuan to freely float to reflect the true trade surpluls of China then Chinese Yuan will appreciate even more and make life easy in the economy with lower inflation. Today due to this policy of Chinese government there is inflation being generated in the economy due to RMB being in excess supply.

It is because of this reason the whole world is now saying that the Shanghai property bubble can burst in the next two - three years if Chinese government does not take corrective steps.

Here, I am again enclosing charts for your help. This time I am putting Indian Rupees + also Chinese Yuan + also Korean Won.

Chinese Yuan to US Dollar Exchange Graph
Indian Rupee to US Dollar Exchange Graph
Korean Won to US Dollar Exchange Graph


You decide for yourself about Chinese government policy. I give you the last word.

Regarding the threatened ban of Huawei and ZTE telecoms equipment from being imported into India on the false pretext of national security for CIVILIAN purposes, there is nothing more that I can say. You can make all the excuses that you want, but an objective view is that India is violating WTO rules.

I will leave the last word to all of you. I draw a line when the debate extends back to the SOVIET era. I simply do not have the time to fight off an Indian horde. There are too many of you!

There is no false pretense from India. I already showed you the example of the Australian Rio Tinto company executive who has been arrested by China because Chinese government said that he is stealing state secrets.

Also I gave you the example of Google who had to close the operation in China because they did not agree to Chinese government policy of censoring information and not showing the true picture of world to internet viewers in China.

In the same way, India also has a right to safegaurd its national security interests. India has no threats from China but no country can take a risk in national security specially because Indian government is elected by its people and it is the responsibility of the government to take the correct and safe decision for its people who voted for it.

I am sure you would have understood everything by now.

 

[Martian2]

There is actually no need for us to fight my friend. I have Chinese friends and we never fight, we respect each other.
...
You decide for yourself about Chinese government policy. I give you the last word.

That's my line. You're an odd Indian. All the others jumped at the chance for the last word. However, I appreciate the courtesy that you have shown me.

By the way, I already have a pretty good idea how this Huawei and ZTE story ends. Huawei and ZTE will build plants in India. This is very likely to occur. The part that I'm unsure about is how long it will take for India to eventually absorb Huawei's and ZTE's technology.

Those Indian plants will have mostly Indian personnel. Once they're trained and gain years of experience with Huawei's and ZTE's equipment, they should be able to independently operate and/or eventually replicate Huawei's and ZTE's equipment.

The big unknown: how many years will it take for India to muster a domestically-grown mini-Huawei or mini-ZTE and how competitive will those new Indian mini-companies be? Stay tuned.

 

[below_freezing]

forget it. they just dont get it.

 

[Speeder 2]

I draw a line when the debate extends back to the SOVIET era. I simply do not have the time to fight off an Indian horde. There are too many of you!

So true! It's always wise to draw a line somehwere and tell them enough is enough whenever educating some bigots.

On this clear WTO rules violation, China could consider retaliation. Since India is primarily a backward agricultural country who exports zero high tech product to China in return but exclusively raw materials such as iron ore and illegal immigrants, China could consider ban both of them for "security reasons" as a suitable retaliation measure.

Pulling out of India is good for Huawei and ZTE in the long run IMO despite of missing some easy $$$ for the current fisical year, as it will help them concentrating on more developed markets, with corresponding higher degree of R&D imput and profit margins.

Alternatively, Huawei and ZTE might want to note down all Indian govt ministers' Swiss bank account numbers to wire them USD 10,000 collectively (maybe even less than this amount) as a lump sum "kickback", Mahamum Singh would then likely bend over backwards at short notice after the "kick", for "security reason" or not ---->

 

[deepak75]

forget it. they just dont get it.

Who doesn't get what my friend. Normally all my Chinese friends understand me perfectly and I understand them so well.

So what are you trying to say?

 

[Martian2]

So true! It's always wise to draw a line somehwere and tell them enough is enough whenever educating some bigots.

On this clear WTO rules violation, China could consider retaliation. Since India is primarily a backward agricultural country who exports zero high tech product to China in return but exclusively raw materials such as iron ore and illegal immigrants, China could consider ban both of them for "security reasons" as a suitable retaliation measure.

Pulling out of India is good for Huawei and ZTE in the long run IMO despite of missing some easy $$$ for the current fisical year, as it will help them concentrating on more developed markets, with corresponding higher degree of R&D imput and profit margins.

Alternatively, Huawei and ZTE might want to note down all Indian govt ministers' Swiss bank account numbers to wire them USD 10,000 collectively (maybe even less than this amount) as a lump sum "kickback", Mahamum Singh would then likely bend over backwards at short notice after the "kick", for "security reason" or not ---->

American press usually go back three to five years for economic history. The reason that you don't go back further is because economic conditions were very different the further back that you go. For example, you would not trace an economic discussion back to the 1970s and discuss the Arab oil embargo. It is simply not relevant.

Similarly, if you go back ten years, that is a real stretch. If you go back that far, you would witness the creation of the Eurozone. Obviously, our world changes dramatically and discussing economic conditions at the dawn of the Eurozone doesn't have much relevance to today's world.

Huawei and ZTE should leave the Indian market, but they won't. The Indian government intentionally waited until both companies were making nice money and then dropped a bomb on them. If Huawei and ZTE underestimate Indians and their source codes and technology are absorbed by Indians then they will face long-term competitors that they'll never get rid of. How are they supposed to compete against Indian wages? The only barrier that protects Huawei and ZTE is their technological secrets.

I've seen American companies make this classic error many times. A foreign government dangles billions of dollars of immediate short-term sales and/or profits in front of you. The scrappy third-worlders work hard and they eat your lunch. This is a very dangerous situation.

In any case, I'm taking below_freezing's advice. I'm mostly giving up. I like debating current events, but twenty-year old history is too much for me.

Eurozone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Members

In 1998 eleven EU member-states had met the convergence criteria, and the eurozone came into existence with the official launch of the euro on 1 January 1999. Greece qualified in 2000 and was admitted on 1 January 2001. Physical coins and banknotes were introduced on 1 January 2002. Slovenia qualified in 2006 and was admitted on 1 January 2007. Cyprus and Malta qualified in 2007 and were admitted on 1 January 2008. Slovakia qualified in 2008 and joined on 1 January 2009. As of 2009 there are 16 member states with 329 million people in the eurozone."

 

[deepak75]

So true! It's always wise to draw a line somehwere and tell them enough is enough whenever educating some bigots.

On this clear WTO rules violation, China could consider retaliation. Since India is primarily a backward agricultural country who exports zero high tech product to China in return but exclusively raw materials such as iron ore and illegal immigrants, China could consider ban both of them for "security reasons" as a suitable retaliation measure.

China's exports to India 2009 = 29.1 Billion
India's exports to China 2009 = 10.9 Billion

So above information should help China make up its mind

Pulling out of India is good for Huawei and ZTE in the long run IMO despite of missing some easy $$$ for the current fisical year, as it will help them concentrating on more developed markets, with corresponding higher degree of R&D imput.

Sure, you will make a good businessman. All the people in China who made these companies with their hard work can lose money only because our Speeder 2 is saying that here on this forum.

Do you have any idea how much immediate and future revenue that Huawei and ZTE will lose and how many jobs in these companies will be lost in China?

Alternatively, Huawei and ZTE might want to note down all Indian govt ministers' Swiss bank account numbers to wire them USD 10,000collectively (maybe even less than this amount) as a lump sum "kickback", Mahamum Singh would then bend over backwards at short notice after the "kick", for "security reason" or not ---->

You mean the communist party trips to Macau or something like this:

Corruption in China growing at least as fast as the economy


LAST weekend a mid-ranking police officer in Shenzhen named Liu Shengqiang invited 1100 guests to a five-star hotel for his daughter's wedding banquet.

The 500,000 yuan ($A79,500) price tag probably amounted to several years' salary, although he did make a 36,000 yuan return from ''red envelopes'' - guests giving cash as gifts.

''I played low-profile, without inviting any leaders from the bureau,'' Mr Liu told the Southern Metropolis Daily.

 

[chinapakistan]

Corruption in China growing at least as fast as the economy

Oh my god, an indian wanna talk about corruption.
You are super power in this area, we cant beat you.
And in china, polician who are corrupted will get very serious punishment, but in india, corruption is free, that has become a part of indian culture. Amost every polician has a swiss bank in india.

 

[new wave]

Oh my god, an indian wanna talk about corruption.
You are super power in this area, we cant beat you.
And in china, polician who are corrupted will get very serious punishment, but in india, corruption is free, that has become a part of indian culture. Amost every polician has a swiss bank in india.

Bro, mirror is a luxury in India, so hardly anyone will know whats their own images look like
Global Corruption Index
Transparency International has downgraded India’s ranking from 72 to 85 in the list of world’s corruption-plagued countries
India on various Global ranking studies India Fact Book
GCR2009/2009/in focus/news room

 

[ao333]

You guys are comparing 2 uncomparable countries.

1) China has 409% the economy of India with only 114% of its people.

2) India has 215% the population growth rate of China.

3) China's economy is expanding faster than India (10 vs 8.8) in spite of it being 4 times larger and the population growing at half the pace.

4) Considering the fact that the RMB is undervalued by as much as 40%, changes the case completely. Even multiplying the Chinese economy by a conservative "15%," (so as to not impede growth) would make China's economy 470% the size of India's.

Is this India's definition of "catching up?" Because clearly, the gap is widening.

 

[Merilion]

huawei may ToT some basic techs to india but i dont believe it will be so stupid to give up its core techs to anyone. if it ever wants to do that chinese gov shd step in to stop it like what US gov does by imposing export control policy.
on india side, if india has a huawei like domestic company in the competition then i can understand all this but it looks to me india has no other option but go for expensive western companies...furthermore if it just singles out chinese companies then it will damages sino-inda relationship.

 

[chengdusudise]

huawei may ToT some basic techs to india but i dont believe it will be so stupid to give up its core techs to anyone. if it ever wants to do that chinese gov shd step in to stop it like what US gov does by imposing export control policy.
on india side, if india has a huawei like domestic company in the competition then i can understand all this but it looks to me india has no other option but go for expensive western companies...furthermore if it just singles out chinese companies then it will damages sino-inda relationship.

huawei and ZTE already are stupid enough ,they can hardly make profit from indian market ,because in there, people only want the cheapest product. If huawei and ZTE left indian ,they can focus on other profitable markets. Let western company hike the price to a wonderful level to make our indian friends happy enough

 

[deepak75]

huawei may ToT some basic techs to india but i dont believe it will be so stupid to give up its core techs to anyone.

Huawei and ZTE will have to do what the Indian government is asking for. Whether it is TOT or any other requirement, it does not matter. If they have to sell in the Indian market, they have to sell as per the rules of the Government of India.

if it ever wants to do that chinese gov shd step in to stop it like what US gov does by imposing export control policy.

Are you serious? Look the numbers below:

U.S had a net import trade from China of USD 226.8.


So if U.S puts the trade restrictions on China then China can do nothing because it depends on exports to U.S and other countries. China's domestic consumption is less than 50% of its GDP!

This means that if the world stops taking imports from China, the Chinese economy will only be able to take 50% of the total annual production from various factors.

Do you understand what disaster you are advocating by saying that China should act like U.S in stopping Huawei.

Do you even know the number of job losses of honest hard working Chinese people that will happen. Are you aware that at the first chance of even such a thought coming in to China, the investors will take their money out and China will collapse.

Anybody who loves the people of China will never say your words because your solution will create hardship for the common honest people of China. Of course,the rich communist party leaders will not have any problem if China collapses. Only the poor people and hard working people of China will find that they have been cheated by the government if they do what you are saying.

on india side, if india has a huawei like domestic company in the competition then i can understand all this but it looks to me india has no other option but go for expensive western companies...furthermore if it just singles out chinese companies then it will damages sino-inda relationship.

India will do what it wants to do for the best progress of its economy and its people. And in the process if it damages Indo China relations then it does not matter.

But I personally do not believe that it will damage the relations between India and China, because both the countries believe in growth and the hard working simple people of both countries understand that by fighting with each other, we will just make our poor people suffer.

China will lose India market because of which a lot of honest and poor people will lose their jobs in China and India will also face hardships in getting the material from another country. It may be a little expensive but India can pay a little extra and get the technology.

So now do you want Chinese government to create problems for India?

 

[deepak75]

huawei and ZTE already are stupid enough ,they can hardly make profit from indian market ,because in there, people only want the cheapest product. If huawei and ZTE left indian ,they can focus on other profitable markets. Let western company hike the price to a wonderful level to make our indian friends happy enough

Both Huawei and ZTE did a business of more than 2.5 Billion US Dollars last year from Indian companies. 2.5 Billion Dollars is almost 19 Billion RMB. Do you understand what kind of loss that you are talking of for the hardworking Chinese people who built these companies and who work in the factories?

And India will not pay extra. We will get better technology from West and ask them to make the equipment in India by making a factory. So India will get more employment and also less import because equipment is locally made. So for India it does not make any difference at all.

But still if you feel that Huawei and ZTE should go out of the Indian market, I hope that you are saying that with the knowledge that this will lead to honest people losing jobs in China. So your wish my friend.