China's conditional promise on Outer Mongolia

[Zsari]

I don't care that Outer Mongolia is anti-China.

Mongolia has ZERO military power.

If President Xi Jinping decides that he wants Outer Mongolia back then it will happen within a few days.

I'm making the point that the status quo remains only if the US doesn't rock the boat. Given the five compelling reasons to reclaim Outer Mongolia, I am making the prediction that China will reclaim Outer Mongolia as soon as the United States fires the first shot in a South China Sea war.

It is pointless to make a prediction AFTER the US fires the first shot and China moved into Outer Mongolia.

Hence, I must make my prediction now before the events transpire.

We have seen President Trump conduct four Freedom of Navigation patrols within 12 miles of a Chinese island. China has responded by militarizing its South China Sea islands. Events are escalating. I have made my prediction of China reclaiming Outer Mongolia before it potentially happens in the near future.
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In the blink of an eye, a US naval warship could fire on a Chinese aircraft, drone, ship, or island. China could quickly respond by moving its main battle tanks, howitzers, and ICBMs into Outer Mongolia.

It is absolutely appropriate for me to make a military prediction before a potential conflict unfolds.

Do you see the headline above the forum? It says Pakistan DEFENCE.

If you don't like my military predictions, stay out of my threads and leave the DEFENCE forum.

Outer Mongolia has nothing to do with the US, and to connect the two is just ridiculous. Regardless of Mongolia's military strength, there are cost to everything one does. Despite the lack of enforceable international order, there are still actions that are recognized by and large as illegitimate which no rational leader would commit his nation to. Xi has show himself to be very restraint and rational, instead of being some hot head loud mouth.

Sure, you can make any statement or prediction as you please, but anyone else has as much right to point out its flaws.

 

[Martian2]

Outer Mongolia has nothing to do with the US, and to connect the two is just ridiculous. Regardless of Mongolia's military strength, there are cost to everything one does. Despite the lack of enforceable international order, there are still actions that are recognized by and large as illegitimate which no rational leader would commit his nation to. Xi has show himself to be very restraint and rational, instead of being some hot head loud mouth.

Sure, you can make any statement or prediction as you please, but anyone else has as much right to point out its flaws.

Of course it does.

Did you bother reading my 5 reasons?

One million tonnes of uranium reserves for new hydrogen-bomb warheads.

Food Security.

Strategic Depth.

Morale Boost for a long war.

These are all acknowledged advantages for fighting a war.
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The only reason China has not already reclaimed Outer Mongolia is a desire to maintain the peace with the United States. Without that sine qua non, there is absolutely no reason for China to allow Outer Mongolia to remain independent.

 

[Zsari]

Of course it does.

Did you bother reading my 5 reasons?

One million tonnes of uranium reserves for new hydrogen-bomb warheads.

Food Security.

Strategic Depth.

Morale Boost for a long war.

These are all acknowledged advantages for fighting a war.
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The only reason China has not already reclaimed Outer Mongolia is a desire to maintain the peace with the United States. Without that sine qua non, there is absolutely no reason for China to allow Outer Mongolia to remain independent.

Are you mad? These sounds a lot like reasons Japan used to invade the Southeast Asia when it is still engaged in a war with China. Invading Mongolia while in a war with the US, and do expect Russia to turn against you.

 

[Yingluck]

Of course it does.

Did you bother reading my 5 reasons?

One million tonnes of uranium reserves for new hydrogen-bomb warheads.

Food Security.

Strategic Depth.

Morale Boost for a long war.

These are all acknowledged advantages for fighting a war.
----------

The only reason China has not already reclaimed Outer Mongolia is a desire to maintain the peace with the United States. Without that sine qua non, there is absolutely no reason for China to allow Outer Mongolia to remain independent.

Food security is a joke. This outer Mongolia is mostly desert. Martian is proposing to get seawater in, which is 1500m altitude. This is equivalent to 10x the height of 3 gorge dam.

 

[Martian2]

Are you mad? These sounds a lot like reasons Japan used to invade the Southeast Asia when it is still engaged in a war with China. Invading Mongolia while in a war with the US, and do expect Russia to turn against you.

Are you an idiot?

The Russians can barely defend themselves against NATO on their western front.

China's economy is $13 trillion.

Russia's economy is $1.5 trillion.

The Russians need China's help to prevent economic collapse.

China's economy is almost 10 times larger than the Russian economy. China can put 10 tank divisions into the field for one Russian tank division.

Wow, the Russian military is so powerful. It can't even conquer two eastern provinces in Ukraine after years of trying.

Do you bother following current events?

Food security is a joke. This outer Mongolia is mostly desert. Martian is proposing to get seawater in, which is 1500m altitude. This is equivalent to 10x the height of 3 gorge dam.

You do realize there is an invention called a pump, right?

Water is pumped uphill all the time. You see all that water in a water tower. Guess how it got there?

That's right. A water pump. This is the modern world. We're not living in the dark ages.

Only a corner of Mongolia's southwest is devoid of vegetation. The majority of Mongolia has plants.

 

[Zsari]

Are you an idiot?

The Russians can barely defend themselves against NATO on their western front.

China's economy is $13 trillion.

Russia's economy is $1.5 trillion.

The Russians need China's help to prevent economic collapse.

Show aggression close to Russia border when you are in a war with the US, and watch how quickly Russia and US re-approach each other. Remember, there is no permanent friends or enemy, only interests. Russia might not be the power of that it was, but to defend against the US, China would need the cooperation from Russia, especially access to energy, without which taking the whole of Mongolia would not help. Do you just want China to be surrounded by enemies?

 

[Martian2]

Show aggression close to Russia border when you are in a war with the US, and watch how quickly Russia and US re-approach each other. Remember, there is no permanent friends or enemy, only interests. Russia might not be the power of that it was, but to defend against the US, China would need the cooperation from Russia, especially access to energy, without which taking the whole of Mongolia would not help. Do you just want China to be surrounded by enemies?

Who cares? Russia is weak and it has its own problems with the United States.

The United States demands that Russia withdraw from the Crimea, leave two annexed Georgian provinces, and leave two occupied Ukrainian provinces. Otherwise, US sanctions will remain in place.

China's economy is $13 trillion and growing by $1 trillion per year.

Russia's economy is a tiny $1.5 trillion and barely growing.

Russia has a long-term problem with NATO's IRON BRIGADE that is stationed permanently in Poland and the Baltics.

Who cares what the Russians think? If the Americans don't carve up Russia then the Russians should count themselves lucky. Russia has no capability to stop China in Outer Mongolia.
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You think the Russians care about Outer Mongolia?

What about the THREE THOUSAND military vehicles (e.g. main battle tanks, howitzers, etc.) that NATO put on Russia's doorstep?

"WORLDS LARGEST NIGHTMARE for Putin
US Military Tanks & Trucks in Poland in large numbers
ArmedForcesUpdate
Published on Jan 18, 2017

The US Military has arrived in Poland in large numbers some may say it's the worlds largest nightmare for Putin.
ZAGAN, Poland -- The first M1A2 Abrams Tanks owned by 3rd Armor Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division touched ground in Swietozow, Poland, on January 10, 2017.

Soldiers assigned to 1st Battalion, 66th Armored Regiment, and 1st Battalion, 68th Armored Battalion, 3rd Arm. Bde. Cmbt. Tm., 4th Inf. Div., are deploying to Poland to undergo training prior to continuing a 9-month rotation as part of Atlantic Resolve. Atlantic Resolve is a U.S. led effort being conducted in Eastern Europe to demonstrate U.S. commitment to the collective security of NATO and dedication to enduring peace and stability in the region.

“I think what’s dynamic about our mission is our speed of assembly,” said Lt. Col. Stephen Capehart, commander, 1st Battalion, 68th Armored Regiment. “Within less than 30 days, we prepared our equipment, put it on vessels; we had our Soldiers get time with their families, got them ready to go, and now we’re in Poland.”

The unit is conducting the reception, staging and onward integration of its forces in Poland before moving them to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Romania and Poland.

“I think it shows our commitment to the alliance,” Capehart said. “It shows how we can deter any threat to the alliance as we move forward.”

The arrival of 3rd Arm. Bde. Cmbt. Tm., 4th Inf. Div., marks the start of back-to-back rotations of armored brigades in Europe as part of Atlantic Resolve. The vehicles and equipment, totaling more than 2,700 pieces, will be shipped to Poland for certification before deploying across Europe for use in training with partner nations. This rotation will enhance deterrence capabilities in the region, improve the U.S. ability to respond to potential crises and defend allies and partners in the European community. U.S. forces will focus on strengthening capabilities and sustaining readiness through bilateral and multinational training and exercises.

“The Army and our nation has committed an armored brigade combat team to the European theater of operation,” he said. “After us, another armored brigade combat team will come following for a 9-month rotation to show that commitment from our nation to the alliance.”

Video Description Credit: Staff Sgt. Timothy Hughes

Video Credits: Staff Sgt. Thanh Pham, Staff Sgt. Adrian Patoka, Staff Sgt. Timothy Hughes, Capt. Scott Kuhn, Spc. Devone Collins and Staff Sgt. Adrian Patoka

Video Thumbnail Credit: US Military"

 

[Zsari]

Who cares? Russia is weak and it has its own problems with the United States.

The United States demands that Russia withdraw from the Crimea, leave two annexed Georgian provinces, and leave two occupied Ukrainian provinces. Otherwise, US sanctions will remain in place.

China's economy is $13 trillion and growing by $1 trillion per year.

Russia's economy is a tiny $1.5 trillion and barely growing.

Russia has a long-term problem with NATO's IRON BRIGADE that is stationed permanently in Poland and the Baltics.

Who cares what the Russians think? If the Americans don't carve up Russia then the Russians should count themselves lucky. Russia has no capability to stop China in Outer Mongolia.
----------

You think the Russians care about Outer Mongolia?

What about the THREE THOUSAND military vehicles (e.g. main battle tanks, howitzers, etc.) that NATO put on Russia's doorstep?

"WORLDS LARGEST NIGHTMARE for Putin
US Military Tanks & Trucks in Poland in large numbers
ArmedForcesUpdate
Published on Jan 18, 2017

The US Military has arrived in Poland in large numbers some may say it's the worlds largest nightmare for Putin.
ZAGAN, Poland -- The first M1A2 Abrams Tanks owned by 3rd Armor Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division touched ground in Swietozow, Poland, on January 10, 2017.

Soldiers assigned to 1st Battalion, 66th Armored Regiment, and 1st Battalion, 68th Armored Battalion, 3rd Arm. Bde. Cmbt. Tm., 4th Inf. Div., are deploying to Poland to undergo training prior to continuing a 9-month rotation as part of Atlantic Resolve. Atlantic Resolve is a U.S. led effort being conducted in Eastern Europe to demonstrate U.S. commitment to the collective security of NATO and dedication to enduring peace and stability in the region.

“I think what’s dynamic about our mission is our speed of assembly,” said Lt. Col. Stephen Capehart, commander, 1st Battalion, 68th Armored Regiment. “Within less than 30 days, we prepared our equipment, put it on vessels; we had our Soldiers get time with their families, got them ready to go, and now we’re in Poland.”

The unit is conducting the reception, staging and onward integration of its forces in Poland before moving them to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, Romania and Poland.

“I think it shows our commitment to the alliance,” Capehart said. “It shows how we can deter any threat to the alliance as we move forward.”

The arrival of 3rd Arm. Bde. Cmbt. Tm., 4th Inf. Div., marks the start of back-to-back rotations of armored brigades in Europe as part of Atlantic Resolve. The vehicles and equipment, totaling more than 2,700 pieces, will be shipped to Poland for certification before deploying across Europe for use in training with partner nations. This rotation will enhance deterrence capabilities in the region, improve the U.S. ability to respond to potential crises and defend allies and partners in the European community. U.S. forces will focus on strengthening capabilities and sustaining readiness through bilateral and multinational training and exercises.

“The Army and our nation has committed an armored brigade combat team to the European theater of operation,” he said. “After us, another armored brigade combat team will come following for a 9-month rotation to show that commitment from our nation to the alliance.”

Video Description Credit: Staff Sgt. Timothy Hughes

Video Credits: Staff Sgt. Thanh Pham, Staff Sgt. Adrian Patoka, Staff Sgt. Timothy Hughes, Capt. Scott Kuhn, Spc. Devone Collins and Staff Sgt. Adrian Patoka

Video Thumbnail Credit: US Military"

Yes, who care when you are putting China in dire straits. You asked if Russia care about Mongolia? Then does the US care about Ukraine? If its in a war with China, US will drop all its demands on Russia and try to get it on their side. At the same time, your brilliantly presented China as a threat to the Russians. Russia doesn't even need to go to war directly, as all it needs is to allow the US access to its airbases, and all your "strategic depth" will go up in smoke, not to mention blocking access through central Asia in the former stans would choke China to death in a war already with the west. Sigh. At least Chinese leadership are not nearly as suicidal to only know to chest pumping about GDP.

 

[Martian2]

Yes, who care when you are putting China in dire straits. You asked if Russia care about Mongolia? Then does the US care about Ukraine? If its in a war with China, US will drop all its demands on Russia and try to get it on their side. At the same time, your brilliantly presented China as a threat to the Russians. Russia doesn't even need to go to war directly, as all it needs is to allow the US access to its airbases, and all your "strategic depth" will go up in smoke, not to mention blocking access through central Asia in the former stans would choke China to death in a war already with the west. Sigh. At least Chinese leadership are not as suicidal.

No.

The United States will not cooperate with either Russia or China.

Did you bother looking at the video of 2,700 hummers, main battle tanks, and howitzers deployed to Poland?

The United States is not offering any deals to Russia.

To survive, Russia needs China's economic size and production to hold off NATO's conventional forces.

The Russians like to say: well...we'll just use nuclear weapons.

I'll like to see them try.

NATO has plenty of thermonuclear weapons (both tactical and strategic). So does China.

Where does that leave us? We're fighting wars conventionally.

Russia does not have the economy or technology to match NATO or China. Russia is the least influential country.
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Russia has a small population: 145 million
US: 320 million
China: 1.4 billion

Russia's economy is tiny compared to China's or the US.

Russia's military technology is sub-par and cannot match China's J-20 and US F-22. The Russian T-50/Pak-fa has exposed METALLIC engine pods that are not stealthy.

Russia is inconsequential. Small population. Tiny economy. Sub-par military technology.

No one cares about the Russians.

What does Russia add to US military power? Absolutely nothing.

 

[Han Patriot]

Wtf would you wanna invade a sovereign country. The borders had been demarcated, you have got to respect that.

 

[Martian2]

Wtf would you wanna invade a sovereign country. The borders had been demarcated, you have got to respect that.

Are you an idiot?

Who said it is sovereign?

It was part of China. China can take it back whenever it chooses.

Russia took back Crimea. Russia annexed two Georgian provinces. Russia is occupying two Ukrainian provinces.

Israel took the West Bank.

NATO took Kosovo from Serbia, despite Serbia's protest.

The United States took the Southwest from Mexico (which was only 150 years ago) and took whatever Indian lands it felt like.

Why would you argue that only China is allowed to lose territory and not allowed to reclaim it?

Why should there be one set of rules for the white man and another for Chinese?

The British invaders annexed all of Australia from the native Aborigines only 200 years ago.

Why should China give up its territory in Outer Mongolia? Because the white man said so?
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Seriously, "Han Patriot," are you a brainwashed idiot?

The white man is permitted to enlarge his territories.

However, whenever China loses territory, it must be forever?

Who taught you these idiotic rules?

Let me guess. You (ironically named "Han Patriot") also believe that China's effort to assert sovereignty over its 2,000-year-old-claim to the South China Sea is illegal, because some old white men in a Dutch courthouse (which had absolutely no jurisdiction) said China's claim is invalid.

You're just an anti-China white boy pretending to be a "Han Patriot," right?

 

[Zsari]

No.

The United States will not cooperate with either Russia or China.

Did you bother looking at the video of 2,700 hummers, main battle tanks, and howitzers deployed to Poland?

The United States is not offering any deals to Russia.

To survive, Russia needs China's economic size and production to hold off NATO's conventional forces.

The Russians like to say: well...we'll just use nuclear weapons.

I'll like to see them try.

NATO has plenty of thermonuclear weapons (both tactical and strategic). So does China.

Where does that leave us? We're fighting wars conventionally.

Russia does not have the economy or technology to match NATO or China. Russia is the least influential country.
----------

Russia has a small population: 145 million
US: 320 million
China: 1.4 billion

Russia's economy is tiny compared to China's or the US.

Russia's military technology is sub-par and cannot match China's J-20 and US F-22. The Russian T-50/Pak-fa has exposed METALLIC engine pods that are not stealthy.

Russia is inconsequential. Small population. Tiny economy. Sub-par military technology.

No one cares about the Russians.

What does Russia add to US military power? Absolutely nothing.

US is not offering Russia anything because it is not at war with China. Things change quickly when there is war. You know what's strategic depth for the Russians? Threaten that, and its more serious than any threat from Poland. Afterall, Napolean failed, and Hitler failed, but Genghis Khan did not. Wonder why? The landmass and the strategic position Russia commands means count them out at your own peril. Whether Russia add to US military power or not, just having access to its hinterland would spell disaster for China.

 

[Martian2]

US is not offering Russia anything because it is not at war with China. Things change quickly when there is war. You know what's strategic depth for the Russians? Threaten that, and its more serious than any threat from Poland. Afterall, Napolean failed, and Hitler failed, but Genghis Khan did not. Wonder why? The landmass and the strategic position Russia commands means count them out at your own peril. Whether Russia add to US military power or not, just having access to its hinterland would spell disaster for China.

Look, I don't care about your stupid idea about Russia.

In 1985, the Soviet Union was powerful and could stop China from reclaiming Outer Mongolia.

The Soviet Union is gone and today's Russia is an extremely pale shadow of the Soviet Union.

Today's Russia is trying to fight for survival against an encroaching NATO.

Your pet theory of the United States making a deal with Russia is inherently stupid. US policy of SIOP treats BOTH Russia and China as one enemy.

The United States has shown ZERO inclination to make any deal with Russia. To the contrary, Trump imposed further sanctions against Russia for alleged violations of the INF treaty.

The United States has taken a hard line against Russia and it is not budging. The Cold War never ended. The front lines have moved from former West Germany to Poland/Baltic States.

Trump Approves New Sanctions Against Russia Over Alleged INF Treaty Violations | Sputnik News (December 9, 2017)

 

[Jlaw]

Easy problem to fix with China's technology.

Build a canal to transport water from southern China (where water is plentiful) or desalinate water from the Bohai Bay with a nuclear power plant and transport it via pipeline into Outer Mongolia.

The Outer Mongolians do not have these technologies, but China's water-transport and nuclear power technologies are well-proven.

Why not take water from Yarlung Zang Po river?

 

[Menthol]

USA want to harvest China.

The only way to do is to invade China. Once the war is breaking out, all the money will went to USA, as simple as that.

USA today is preparing for that. From secretly but publicly well known, work together with Japan and India in preparation to invade China. As well as working to convince Chinese wealthy people that USA is a safe place to save the money there.

What USA need to do right now, is finding or provoking issue to justify the war that look like USA doesn't involve, but as humanitarian assistance with military invasion against the evil and wrong doing Chinese government.

It just a matter of time, as the internal problem in USA is growing, give USA government a huge pressure to fastening to execute the plan.