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China's 99% -- Why China Will Not Surpass the U.S.

I don't understand why people get the idea that China can overtake the US or EU.

China has that middle-income trap and the local government debt problems to escape first.

there are too many things that koreans that dont understand or should I say have no clue`!

and which country doesnt have local government debt problem`and how is that to trap China in to a 'mid-income' trap? Chinese economy is not like those south americans and india's as their entire economy is hijacked by western countries, this 'mid-income' theory had been discussed in China long tieme ago thats why now exports only made up less than 25% of the entire GDP from 60% years ago``

but i guess when China pass the mid-income loop (which is definitaly) korean presses and 'academic' research bodies will certainly come up something like, 'Korean helped China to pass the mid-income trap' as few years back there was an Korean (retard) posted an article on PDF to 'warn' China about this issue`!---- since your people is very good at this kind of clownish action
 
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OK ! Einstein ! Please try to argue logically (which is not your forte). Can you refute this article point by point if you have atleast 10 % gray cells

kid``a very simple question what logic did this article based? all addressed reasons a normal people can see are 'China has bigger population' and 'China has only 20% toilet' and i seriously doubt the latter one``maybe they confused China with India, I guess they counted every single toilet in China 'this must be a huge project as there are literaly billions of it'``and those modern apartments in China have at least two of them.

and also the clueless assumption of bigger polulation is even laughable, in what theory does it say a bigger population cannt have hight per capital GDP than smaller population? for example Japan has way much bigger population than little Korean but their GDP is much high than it as well despite a decade of stagnation, so according to your headless believe that the little korea must have like 35% of toile ownership then`?

---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------

So now you are comparing India and China ? Arent you the ones who always say India is nowhere near China ? Do you have argument to support your country ?

---------- Post added at 10:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 AM ----------



That was a brain less analogy ( if you can call it that !) in the first place.
thats the perfect analogy, just your denialbility cant take any reality or good explaination````you should really change your member name to IntoCraps``:p
 
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The received wisdom these days is that the West is in rapid decline, and China is on an upward trajectory that cannot be stopped. Sooner or later the pundits say, the two lines will cross-- perhaps explosively-- and China will rule the world. The latest evidence? Klaus Regling heading to Beijing on Friday to beg for Chinese financial aid to rescue Europe. It is certainly a long way from the foreign treaty ports and other indignities that China suffered at European hands in the last century... I wonder if there is a Chinese word for schadenfreude?

I might have contributed modestly to the momentum theory of China's ascendancy myself with the 2003 article that David Hale and I wrote for Foreign Affairs, China Takes Off. To say that China is rising is one thing however, because that is undoubtedly true. To say that China will rule the world is quite another.

An amazing number of Americans who were polled recently incorrectly believe that China's economy is already bigger than the US. The view from inside China is somewhat different. As any thoughtful person there will attest, China faces a slew of obstacles at this stage of its development. China might be a rich state, but its people remain poor. China may become the world's largest economy in 2016 according to optimistic estimates by the IMF, but that simply means that total output will be larger than in the US. A country with 1.3 billion people should have an economy larger than one with .3 billion in absolute numbers: China's population is more than four times larger. If both economies were exactly the same size, China's GDP per capita would be just 25% compared to the US.

What this means is that in spite of the overall size of its economy, the standard of living in China is correspondingly lower. Just one example to put this into perspective: only 20% of Chinese people have flush toilets. The inescapable fact is that a world in which Chinese consume at the same rate as Americans is a world that cannot exist, based upon available resources of food, water, energy, and other commodities and products such as cars. It would require by some estimates four plant Earths. There is a natural limit to Chinese consumption simply because there are so many Chinese people. This might be unfair, but it means that the great majority of Chinese will not be able to enjoy the kind of life we live here in the US absent exponential and unforeseen technological progress.

Demographics play a crucial role in terms of limiting Chinese growth and economic prosperity. China's population, similarly to Japan, is getting older. The difference is that the Chinese are not going to be as rich as the Japanese by the time that much of their population is over the age of 65. By 2040, assuming current demographic trends continue, there will be about 400 million Chinese elderly with fewer descendants to take care of them than in previous generations. According to a report by CSIS, The Graying of the Middle Kingdom instead of the current ratio of 6:1 working adults to elder dependents, by the middle of this century there will only be about 1.6 working adults for each elder. Due to the lack of job-related and government pension funding the end result will be that China's savings, upon which her wealth has been built, will erode. China faces a steady decline in its workforce beginning mid this decade, thanks to the One Child Policy.

The elderly are also major consumers of health care services. The United States is the richest nation on earth, and has positive population growth, but we are still worried about being able to take care of our baby boomers in the future. In today's China, healthcare is at a premium, and many people in the countryside cannot afford any medical treatment-- full stop.

According to a recent article in Foreign Affairs by Yanzhong Huang, The Sick Man of Asia, China's Health Crisis in 2006 80% of China's health care expenditures were funneled into the treatment of only 8.5 million government officials. Another amazing statistic Huang cites: more than 73% of Chinese hospitals have reported violent incidents between patients and healthcare professionals. Why? Because feelings run high when you are told that your child, your parent or your spouse cannot be given treatment because you cannot pay for it. China is worried about getting both old and sick: by 2040, more Chinese will be suffering from Alzheimer's than the total populations of all the developed nations combined.

Health care is not the only area of concern. The Chinese government is aware that there is growing resentment of income inequality, the result of the introduction of capitalism and the wholesale abandonment of its social safety net. When I first went to China in 1979, the so-called Gini coefficient, the measurement of income inequality, was low. China was a truly socialist country and all services including housing were provided by the state. China in 2011, nominally and in fact politically still a communist country, has greater income inequality than the US.

Someday China's 99% could be a truly potent force. China's leaders are worried about organized protests. There is no Twitter in China, as I recently confirmed with the co-founder of Twitter, Biz Stone. Facebook does not function, and the Internet and all online news is censored. Chinese citizens will increasingly face an asymmetric information gap as they struggle to compete with other large developing countries such as India, which allow the free flow of information. This is not an environment in which innovation can flourish. Try to imagine a Chinese Steve Jobs--almost all of the new companies in China today are derivative of US products, services, and business models.

Examples of the limits of technological progress in the face of suppression of information can be seen in recent accidents involving China's showcase technology. The bullet train tragedy, the grounding of the new Airbus made in China, and similar events add up to an enormous glitch factor as China attempts to step up the technology ladder to more complex systems. Overheard comment--an inspector on the Shanghai's vaunted subway system will not allow his family to use their trains. Whenever there is an atmosphere of fear, bad news does not get reported up the command chain.

Other countries are increasingly less willing to share their technology with China for a variety of reasons. Some businesspeople have had bad experiences, either in terms of political pressure (Google) or more commonly, theft of intellectual property. Lack of protection by China's legal system is cited as the number one structural impediment to foreign companies doing business in China. This all goes back to the ideal of creating an atmosphere in which ideas can flourish and R&D spending is rewarded through the stock market and other vehicles, a process that is not taking place in China today.

Small business, the cradle of job creation everywhere, is at a lending standstill in China. Most small and medium size businesses are forced to go to the black or "informal" lending markets for funding, with interest rates of 20, 30 and 40%. Chinese banks are equipped to funnel loans to the large state-owned businesses, but they do not have credit analysts who can determine whether or not a business should be given a loan on its own merits. The languishing stock market is still dominated by behemoth state-owned enterprises, so when startups need capital, they often turn to foreign investors. In spite of the glut of savings within China's banking system, all of China's major Internet firms raised funds in US stock markets--Sina, Sohu, Alibaba. Lack of access to capital has also resulted in the loss of thousands of Chinese engineers and entrepreneurs who decided to come to the US to start their businesses, to the inestimable gain of Silicon Valley.

Another common misperception is that China will overcome the US militarily. First of all, China has no major allies, with the possible exception of Russia, which clearly seeks to protect its own interests first and foremost. The US on the other hand has firm global allies, military bases worldwide, and a navy that girdles the earth. Secondly, in today's world, warfare is all about technology, and in spite of its successes with rockets and satellites, China is still handicapped in this area. Finally, there is the question of political will. China will fight to protect its interests in Taiwan and in Tibet. But other than that, North Korea has proved to be a major albatross, and there is another strong power in the region, Japan, which will do everything it can to check China's military ascendency.

All of this is not to say that China isn't the greatest success story of our generation. It is a land and a people I love dearly, a civilization whose history and art are unparalleled in many respects. But there is no predetermined place for China to regain on the world stage--history is that simple. When you next read about the "end of America" or China's "inevitable" domination, put on your skeptical spectacles. In spite of the visible, flashy wealth of its modern coastal cities, China is still very much a developing economy on the brink of major changes. Its current system of centralized non-democratic government might be perfect for implementing unpopular choices such as joining the WTO, a decision that was estimated to cost 50 million jobs at the time. The question is whether China has been able to use its wealth it has gained since joining the WTO to create institutions that can bring longer-term stability.

As China is transitioning to become a full member of the world community from which it was entirely separated just forty years ago, we have perhaps seen the end of Chinese rather than American exceptionalism. The characteristics that allowed China to make enormous progress to date are not necessarily the qualities that will be needed to create productive global integration going forward. China is already our greatest commercial partner, and the US should do everything it can to encourage China's engagement, including eschewing trade barriers of all kinds. Overly optimistic misinformation about the realities China faces can lead to poor decision-making by our own government officials. The bottom line is that we should not fear a strong China. Rather, we should fear a weak China.

What are the steps China should take? It should implement a path to full convertibility of its currency and open capital accounts, end financial repression, promote income equality and access to social services, allow the free flow of capital and information across and within its borders, promote freedom of expression-- all these changes and more need to be executed carefully and with all deliberate speed. With a leadership transition looming, the Chinese ship of state now requires a captain who recognizes that China's future depends on integration rather than exceptionalism.

I believe that being China's leader at this time in history just might be the toughest job on earth.

Lyric Hughes Hale: China's 99% -- Why China Will Not Surpass the U.S.


The Chinese government have wise people. This just a western propaganda piece, to just make their people sleep easily at night.

I'm still surprised how North Korea and Mongolia are not Chinese provinces yet.
 
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there is one experience I want to share with members here:

As i stated on my previous thread that I am moving my business to China, I came here yesterday, and today I visited one luxury small shopping center in a small third class city. world class standard environment (cant find anywhere from Delhi or Mumbai when I was there), but hardly with any people (if a western or indian journalist went there, after they will definitaly write another report of 'empty' or 'ghost' shopping center). However what supprised me was the time when i saw those sales figures from the floor manager (good freind) of different brands like Gucci, Prada, Dior and Zegna.

in October this year the monthly sale revenue for this little Prada store was $860,000`! and lets put this in perspective, the Prada's London Bond Street Miu Miu flagship shop's monthly revenue is around $1,200,000 which is only 28.33% more than this little shop in a little Chinese city during a quiet season`! needless to say those Prada China sales figures from big cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Hongkong, Xiamen, Hangzhou and Dalian``! and more impressively Chinese customer made up 40% of that London Bond Street stores``!

and the same situation of the LV store that if they couldnt meet the annual target within 6 month time its a disgrace to the store staffs`!

so i alwasy wonder, even though its a solid fact that America has much higher per capital GDP than Chinese no question about that``but my question is that does Chinese p/c GDP really stand at $7,000? its a country that the luxury consumption is more than whole Europ comnbined together```and this little chinese city i mention has probably more luxury consumption than the whole India put together``!

---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

It doesnt say anywhere that large nations cant have high per capita gdps. It only says that for China to overtake US in gdp/capita is going to take forever. So your dreams of overtaking US economically or militarily is way too premature.

As for username, the 'r' in your name must stand for retard. No wonder you have 2 r :rofl:
you still havent addressed why?
and how about India is 'shining' going t grow 'faster' than China, is technological 'powerhouse' is 'secular' ``etc can we use the word premature? or jokes intocraps?
 
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China's per capita income is 4,382, where as USA's per capita income is 46,860. Spending power of the citizens of a country matters more.
 
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there is one experience I want to share with members here:

As i stated on my previous thread that I am moving my business to China, I came here yesterday, and today I visited one luxury small shopping center in a small third class city. world class standard environment (cant find anywhere from Delhi or Mumbai when I was there), but hardly with any people (if a western or indian journalist went there, after they will definitaly write another report of 'empty' or 'ghost' shopping center). However what supprised me was the time when i saw those sales figures from the floor manager (good freind) of different brands like Gucci, Prada, Dior and Zegna.

in October this year the monthly sale revenue for this little Prada store was $860,000`! and lets put this in perspective, the Prada's London Bond Street Miu Miu flagship shop's monthly revenue is around $1,200,000 which is only 28.33% more than this little shop in a little Chinese city during a quiet season`! needless to say those Prada China sales figures from big cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Hongkong, Xiamen, Hangzhou and Dalian``! and more impressively Chinese customer made up 40% of that London Bond Street stores``!

and the same situation of the LV store that if they couldnt meet the annual target within 6 month time its a disgrace to the store staffs`!

so i alwasy wonder, even though its a solid fact that America has much higher per capital GDP than Chinese no question about that``but my question is that does Chinese p/c GDP really stand at $7,000? its a country that the luxury consumption is more than whole Europ comnbined together```and this little chinese city i mention has probably more luxury consumption than the whole India put together``!


More dumb arguments. Comparing a city's luxury consumption with whole country. Can you back your outrageous argument with facts and figures ?
 
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The Chinese government have wise people. This just a western propaganda piece, to just make their people sleep easily at night.

I'm still surprised how North Korea and Mongolia are not Chinese provinces yet.
becaseu maybe they much higher Human development Index, literacy rate less starving people than India?

and the explaination of why its so easy for indians to take those propaganda craps is because that malnutrition can prevent full brain development? because some people rather believe that toilet ownership is the reason that China can 'never' catch-up U.S p/c income``:D
 
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More dumb arguments. Comparing a city's luxury consumption with whole country. Can you back your outrageous argument with facts and figures ?

China can rival the west.

Think about it. 1.3 billion people.

China already surpassed Japan in GDP.

China can expand into Mongolia and North Korea.

Its only a matter of time.

Plus by the way, have you seen the moral degradation of the west.

Now the West wants to have "rights" for gays, lesbians, and transsexuals.

I hope China does not give rights for these LGBT people.

I hope China says that its against their beliefs and culture to be LGBT.

LGBT people are perverts!
 
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The rise of the PRC is unstoppable the hegemony of the US both militarily, economically, culturally, diplomatically - is on the wan, it is to be welcomed, and one Pakistani people are proud of, and need to emulate.

China_Flag.jpg
 
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More dumb arguments. Comparing a city's luxury consumption with whole country. Can you back your outrageous argument with facts and figures ?

without money where is consumption`? facts and figures? lol I worked in this field``traveling to indian and China to research market is the basic thing to draw up strategy``at end the day i am a businessman i only go anywhere after money``

those Indian was 'shining' nonsenses tricked me to visit india few years ago``but our conclusion is 'India is far from the reality of a fast developing market, but still a primative market'

maybe I will revisit and research India market a decade after when India can really reach the leave that most clueless members bragging here
 
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without money where is consumption`? facts and figures? lol I worked in this field``traveling to indian and China to research market is the basic thing to draw up strategy``at end the day i am a businessman i only go anywhere after money``

those Indian was 'shining' nonsenses tricked me to visit india few years ago``but our conclusion is 'India is far from the reality of a fast developing market, but still a primative market'

maybe I will revisit and research India market a decade after when India can really reach the leave that most clueless members bragging here


If at all anybody was bragging here, it was you ! And yes you are clueless !

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------

China can rival the west.

Think about it. 1.3 billion people.

China already surpassed Japan in GDP.

China can expand into Mongolia and North Korea.

Its only a matter of time.

Plus by the way, have you seen the moral degradation of the west.

Now the West wants to have "rights" for gays, lesbians, and transsexuals.

I hope China does not give rights for these LGBT people.

I hope China says that its against their beliefs and culture to be LGBT.

LGBT people are perverts!

We are not talking about overall GDP here. we are talking gdp/ capita

And the red bolded part. my answer is ...... :rofl:
 
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without money where is consumption`? facts and figures? lol I worked in this field``traveling to indian and China to research market is the basic thing to draw up strategy``at end the day i am a businessman i only go anywhere after money``

those Indian was 'shining' nonsenses tricked me to visit india few years ago``but our conclusion is 'India is far from the reality of a fast developing market, but still a primative market'

maybe I will revisit and research India market a decade after when India can really reach the leave that most clueless members bragging here

I visited China in the mid-nineties, and in 09 the difference was mind blowing - they are well on their way to being an industrialized nation, I have been to many countries, but the development their was unparalleled.
 
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If at all anybody was bragging here, it was you ! And yes you are clueless !

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------



We are not talking about overall GDP here. we are talking gdp/ capita

And the red bolded part. my answer is ...... :rofl:

Why are you laughing at my analysis.

Mongolia has culture that is very close to China's. In fact China has a province called inner Mongolia. Maybe Mongolians in Mongolia would like to be united with their families in China.

Easy solution: Mongolia merges with China. Problem solved!

North Korea is basically a Chinese Protectorate.

Many North Koreans go to China to flee poverty and for opportunities.

If the North Koreans had a choice between uniting with China and South Korea, who do you think they will choose?

My analysis is valid.
 
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Sir,
The article talks about real challenges that will be faced by the Chinese Government. They cannot be wished away. If you read the piece properly, you will see that it presents China in a good light. About North Korea and Mongolia- if economics is the issue sign an FTA and encourage emigration, why would they compromise their national identity. Would you?
 
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