China will accelerate building of world-class military, strong strategic deterrent - Xi

[mike2000 is back]

US only has two parties and they are no different from each other in principles and essence, various sects within the Chinese communist party may be more different than democrats and republicans.

No, the US military doesnt answer to a political party (democrat or republican). The US military answers to the government in place. Even if someone from an outlier party comes to power tomorrow the US military will still follow his government policies/orders. US military is not the armed wing of a single party. However, China's case is different since the PLA is essentially the CCP's military not China's military . So in case the CCP loses power tomorrow, what happens to its armed wing as i said? Its a genuine question. Since it might cause alot of complications even from a managerial/leadership perspective.

Which sects are you talking about in the CCP? Or you mean other political parties ?

 

[beijingwalker]

No, the US military doesnt answer to a political party (democrat or republican). The US military answers to the government in place. Even if someone from an outlier party comes to power tomorrow the US military will still follow his government policies/orders. US military is not the armed wing of a single party.

In theory, yes, in reality, no, Winner takes all system in US prevents any small parties from getting any power. Soviet red army was supposed to be communist army wing but when USSR collapsed, the army just switched alligence in a heartbeat, so what you claimed is only true in theory, not in practice.

Which sects are you talking about in the CCP? Or you mean other political parties ?

Within the Chinese communist party they have different sects and blocs, supporting different leaders and policies. Xi himself was the result of a compromise among them, a dark horse emerged in the last moment.

 

[mike2000 is back]

China has a different political system. It's a one party state. So it has different rules.

You cannot expect China to follow the same rules as US just as I do not expect US to follow China's.

I didn't say i expect China to be like the US. I just questioned what happens in case the party in power loses power (since at the end of the day no single political party can rule forever). That was a genuine question, since the structure of the PLA is such that the Military was formed by the CCP as its armed wing and answerable only to the CCP leadership. So a problem can arise when the CCP is nomore in power dont you think so?
If à new government/party comes to power will the PLA follow that leader/party's orders?

 

[beijingwalker]

If à new government/party comes to power will the PLA follow that leader/party's orders?

Yes.

 

[tower9]

This build up is highly appropriate. I think there is an agreement among G2 (USA and China) to play out this scenario in the next few decades.

Anyone ever been to St. Maarten in the Caribbean? That's the hub that connects to all other major islands in the Caribbean. Curiously, St. Maarten is divided into two parts half owned by the French, the other by the Dutch.

The premise is that Japan is a very rabid and vicious dog when you unleash it and allow it to have its own independent policy. Japan always needs to be under a leash occupied and subjugated by a foreign power.

The other problem is the Anglos are a very insecure race. If you expel them completely from NE Asia, that drives up their paranoia. They will constantly fear they are China's next target and become militarily very tense leading to a very dangerous world to live in.

Since the USA is a declining power while China is on the rise, they cannot always maintain their current power base in the East in the near future.

So, how to solve this problem? It's easy take the St. Maarten model. Allow China to become strong enough to rule half of Japan, while US can still keep the other half.

50% of Japan can be China's 3rd/4th SAR after Taiwan.

The only solution that keeps all parties happy! Because if China truly kicks US out of the East can expect plenty of troubles caused by White man's insecurity! And China cannot always sit idly by allowing US to have current military reach in the East. G2 probably have ongoing discussions how to jointly manage Japan in the next few decades...

That "plan" sounds absurd. What proof do you have of this?

 

[casual]

I didn't say i expect China to be like the US. I just questioned what happens in case the party in power loses power (since at the end of the day no single political party can rule forever). That was a genuine question, since the structure of the PLA is such that the Military was formed by the CCP as its armed wing and answerable only to the CCP leadership. So a problem can arise when the CCP is nomore in power dont you think so?
If à new government/party comes to power will the PLA follow that leader/party's orders?

Nope. If the party fails and allows foreign forces to claim Chinese land, the people will rise up and rebel. Some military will defect and there will be a bloody civil war. The winner will rule China and the loser will hole up in an island like Taiwan.

 

[Zsari]

If à new government/party comes to power will the PLA follow that leader/party's orders?

One will have to gain power first by overthrowing the current government via an armed rebellion against the PLA. Of course, by the time the CPC has come to a point of needing to be replaced, its hold on PLA or even the fighting capability of the PLA would have been seriously deteriorated. That's essentially how power transition works throughout the ages in China, or in most other places.
While the US military is not controlled by either party, when it's time to overthrow the government in its entirety as there is no fundamental difference between the two parties, the US army will inevitably be called upon to defend the state and the constitution. US civil war is one example of the US army being used in an internal conflict.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Yes.

But that will be against the PLA's own doctrine and constitution..since the PLA was formed to answer only to CCP leadership and no other party. Remeber as i said before that PLA is merely CCPs armed wing. The fact that CCP has grown and modernised their armed wing doesn't changes this point. PLA top rank leaders are all made to swear allegiance to the CCP not to the country per se. So how can they follow or show allegiance to another party/government ? Wouldn't that be treason according to the country's law(again drafted by the CCP?
In fact it might even cause the PLA to disband or split(those still loyal to the CCP and those who might want to follow the new government in power) don't you think that is actually something that can even lead to another civil war?

 

[mike2000 is back]

Soviet red army was supposed to be communist army wing but when USSR collapsed, the army just switched alligence in a heartbeat, so what you claimed is only true in theory, not in practice.

So that means PLA just like Soviet red army is not really Loyal at heart to the party then i suppose?

 

[mike2000 is back]

Within the Chinese communist party they have different sects and blocs, supporting different leaders and policies. Xi himself was the result of a compromise among them, a dark horse emerged in the last moment.

Well, that's not really anything special, since every political party or even organisation on earth has something similar. People always compete when they are part of an organisation or party and blocs/cliques are even formed. Its quite normal(even in the conservative party here in Britain there are some who favour different officials for leadership etc) , doesn't change that its still the dame party and they still agree to stick up together as a single party when faced against others. So nothing surprising there. Still one party

However, China's case not only as a one party state, but also as a communist state which states that the military is subsevient, loyal and answerable only to the CCP is what i mean can cause issued if the party disintegrated or losses power. You should note that from what i red, after the establishment of PRC in 1949, Mao ensured it was the party, not the state, which controlled the PLA. Since then, the CCP leader has also been Central Military Commission (CMC) chairman. So in case the party loses power this position will be vacant which can create a very dangerous situation with the military being without a head and all that entails as instability/jostle for power. The structure of CCP and PLA is such that its impossible for the PLA to be neutral and not involved in party politics or party ideology. This is where PLA differ from the US military and most countries military for that matter..

Moroever, there is also one thing we haven’t even talked about, that is Xi Jinping who is the paramount Ruler of China today. As you said he seem to be a dark horse princeiling who nobody imagined could grab power so fast and firmly. He has actually grab power so much that people now see him more as the face of China, not the party/CCP as it was before. He has even gone as far as enshrining his name in the country's constitution with his ideology called "Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era"(or whatever that even means) , which i think is actually stunning and incredible when you look at it..only Mao has had such a large looming presence in the CCP and be able enshrined his political thought into the constitution with his name on it. But Xi has done it, and he did it in this modern age(which i think is even more complicated to do than during mao's time when people were less politically aware, educated, no globalisation,
less tech savvy etc). Even Deng Xiaoping, known as the architect of China's modernisation, only had a "theory" under his name not an ideology enshrined in constitution, while Mr Xi's immediate predecessors, Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao, did not have any thought or theories attached to their names at all. This shows that Xi intends to be in power for a very long time(maybe even for life like Mao) reason he removed the 2 term limits to indefinite and is going for an unprecedented 3rd term already. To be honest, I don't see him leaving anytime soon, baring a major catastrophic event. He's there for the long haul, and i don't see anybody who will dare stand in his way. His political power seems to be too entrenched and spread. Will be interesting to see how things play out 10/15 years from now(he's already 68) since he will be even older and normally should have retired by then(or even now, since retirment age seems to be 68?). So I guess he will also have to modify age limit for retirment as well to indefinite ? only other alternative is just to make an exception for himself ?

 

[beijingwalker]

So that means PLA just like Soviet red army is not really Loyal at heart to the party then i suppose?

Do you know Taiwan's army used to be so called armed wings fo KMT, but KMT now is not the ruling party in Taiwan? what you claim is true in theory, not in the reality, whoever controls the country , controls the army.

 

[MH.Yang]

So that means PLA just like Soviet red army is not really Loyal at heart to the party then i suppose?

China is different from the Soviet Union.

The leading body of the Soviet Red Army is the Soviet National Defense Commission, which is a national institution.

The PLA's leading body is the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China, which is a political party organization.

In theory, you are right. The Chinese army is responsible for the CCP, not the government.

 

[MH.Yang]

No, the US military doesnt answer to a political party (democrat or republican). The US military answers to the government in place. Even if someone from an outlier party comes to power tomorrow the US military will still follow his government policies/orders. US military is not the armed wing of a single party. However, China's case is different since the PLA is essentially the CCP's military not China's military . So in case the CCP loses power tomorrow, what happens to its armed wing as i said? Its a genuine question. Since it might cause alot of complications even from a managerial/leadership perspective.

Which sects are you talking about in the CCP? Or you mean other political parties ?

Let me introduce to you two sentences Mao Zedong once said:

1，中国共产党的最终目标是消灭中国共产党。
The ultimate goal of CCPs is to eliminate CCPs. If a political party cannot tolerate the existence of other parties, it wants to be the emperor.


2，党外无党，帝王思想。党内无派，千奇百怪。
If a political party cannot tolerate factional competition within itself, it will inevitably lead to chaos and demise.


First of all, you need to understand that the CCP is just a temporary institution set up to achieve its goals. Mao Zedong means that the existence of CCP itself has violated the values it believes in. The CCP ultimately wants to create a world without a country, a political party, a class or a war. So in the end, CCP needs to perish. Whether we succeed or fail, it will perish.


Secondly, it is different from what Westerners imagine. There are many parties in China, and the Chinese government is actually a ruling coalition composed of the CCP and eight political parties. There are many non CCP senior officials in the Chinese government. For example, Song Qingling, a member of KMT, once served as the national president of PRC. This position is similar to that of the President of Germany.

Soong Ching-ling - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There are also many factions within CCPs, and CCPs never oppose factional competition. For example, the CCP leftists represented by Mao Zedong and Xi Jinping. The CCP Rightists represented by Deng Xiaoping and Jiang Zemin. Liu Shaoqi and Bo Xilai are the CCP extreme leftists. The Communist Youth League represented by Hu Jingtao and Li Keqiang, etc. The Chinese political tradition does not deny human nature, so the Chinese believe that if we forcibly wipe out human nature and prohibit factional struggle, it will inevitably lead to greater chaos and disaster.

However, there is a bottom line and tacit understanding in the party struggle in China. Once someone crosses the red line in an attempt to split the CCP's unity, he will be collectively excluded and severely punished. For example, Bo Xilai and Wang Yang once fought fiercely, causing division almost like Trump. In the end, Bo Xilai was sent to prison, and Wang Yang was replaced as alternate prime minister by Li Keqiang.

 

[Nan Yang]

I didn't say i expect China to be like the US. I just questioned what happens in case the party in power loses power (since at the end of the day no single political party can rule forever). That was a genuine question, since the structure of the PLA is such that the Military was formed by the CCP as its armed wing and answerable only to the CCP leadership. So a problem can arise when the CCP is nomore in power dont you think so?
If à new government/party comes to power will the PLA follow that leader/party's orders?

I think this goes back to the Western culture vs Eastern culture. The European culture tends to define clear lines of responsibility while the Eastern culture tends to have grey areas.
Daoism teaches about the middle path. There is no clear line. Only grey areas.

That is why in the West you have clear lines of separation of powers eg the executive, the justice and the legislative. Also clear lines between military and civilians. And clear lines between country and political parties. Clear line between secular and religion.

But look at your political system and with all those system in place why is it so dysfunctional. So no matter what system you have its still only as good as the people that runs it.

I think the West spend too much time talking about the process and using the process to drive things to work.

Chinese culture let things that works drive the process.

It goes back to the cat that catches the mice is a good cat. It does not matter if its white or black.

 

[Ajamal]

Xi means to strengthen military equipment more quickly. Our military spending may increase substantially.

Xi needs to recruit more cyber army to steal codes of western weaposn and buy few more Russian weapon for reverse engineering.