China, Vietnam agree to properly settle maritime disputes

[Aepsilons]

No, I just tell the Truth, They (China) come and beg for peace, of course we will say OK. All important parts of SCS(east sea) r under our control already. We dont want more rocks.

I understand your nationalism, trust me i do, but you can do so without always trying to agitate the Chinese members here. Thank You, Vietnamese bro !

thx for the compliment~the high quality of your posts was one of the reasons i came to PDF. and it's always nice to see a friendly nihonjin.
i'm merely a casual civilian observer, so you guys are way more qualified than i am.
my major has nothing to do with geopolitics....and i'm still struggling with English....

You honor me with your kind words @Yizhi , and I do wish to learn more of China, more developments. Its also great to touch base with Chinese members from the mainland !

 

[Shotgunner51]

Historically, China used to be a close friend with Russia, then came along with US and now being again with Russia to counter US. I'm not sure that external forces are willing to support us against China forever due to the change in national interest over the time.

Therefore, I suggest to do something make Chinese-flag ship spending much time and money while travelling through the sea lane across Vietnam, example marine police stop these ship for checking . Therefore, the bypass sea lane could harm our enemy's economy.

I agree in part. From VN's POV, allying with a big power is in fact a rational option of strategy to counter China, and that naturally includes the use of Cam Ranh and other military assets. Then the question is who is the right candidate .... Russia? For sure VN can forget about this cos it's practically an ally of China. India? Not even in the league or VN might as well consider the Brazil and Mexico. Japan? Has potential but not practical in the short run. The only candidate left on earth would still be ...... the US of A, and that's way too complicated.

On your suggestion about disturbing trading route with marine police, I would say is not a plausible option at all. First of all not all ships carry Chinese flag, so such a plan has its blind points. Secondly even if it works, the impact would not be on China alone but on everyone who has business related to this route, resulting in international response to VN's act. Last but not least, this act would almost immediately invite escalated counter-pressure from China's marine police or even the military if the situation loose control.

It's natural for you to find a strategy that's serves your country's best interests, no doubt about that. My opinion is that the options you propose are not practical after a short analysis, you might have to rethink or find some new options.

a married shanghainese male.....deepest sympathy for you, my friend....

You bet my fiend .... ... so don't give a hard time here on PDF please ...

 

[Aepsilons]

Good, keep 'preferring' peace and let us invite US-Russia-India to Cam Ranh base to control your crucial shipping lane in SCS(east sea).

Do you know who Vietnam's greatest trading partner is ? That trade exceeds $30 Billion per annum, and is Vietnam's greatest trade partner. By a huge margin. Nationalism is fine, in healthy amounts, but remember there are over 93 million Vietnamese who's daily living depends on an austere , healthy trade relations with China, and a requisite is a positive relationship.



Adieu,

 

[Yizhi]

You bet my fiend .... ... so don't give a hard time here on PDF please ...

....i'll be gentle with you...oh, poor thing....
guess it's also nice to be single.....

 

[Aepsilons]

a married shanghainese male.....deepest sympathy for you, my friend....

ha ha ha, why sympathy? ha ha ha !! Bai nian haow her - bakh nian hou hap !!!

 

[Nice_guy]

I agree in part. From VN's POV, allying with a big power is in fact a rational option of strategy to counter China, and that naturally includes the use of Cam Ranh and other military assets. Then the question is who is the right candidate .... Russia? For sure VN can forget about this cos it's practically an ally of China. India? Not even in the league or VN might as well consider the Brazil and Mexico. Japan? Has potential but not practical in the short run. The only candidate left on earth would still be ...... the US of A, and that's way too complicated.

On your suggestion about disturbing trading route with marine police, I would say is not a plausible option at all. First of all not all ships carry Chinese flag, so such a plan has its blind points. Secondly even if it works, the impact would not be on China alone but on everyone who has business related to this route, resulting in international response to VN's act. Last but not least, this act would almost immediately invite escalated counter-pressure from China's marine police or even the military if the situation loose control.

It's natural for you to find a strategy that's serves your country's best interests, no doubt about that. My opinion is that the options you propose are not practical after a short analysis, you might have to rethink or find some new options.



You bet my fiend .... ... so don't give a hard time here on PDF please ...

I see, my friend. This is just a my individual suggestion in the case China have attacked Vietnam-occupied islands. You know that, the economic weapon will result in a heavy loss for enemy. But the best way to protect our nation is to improve economic development and military strength because enemies have to think twice when attack us.

Vietnam have gained independence after a thousand years of Chinese domination, and other wars against Mongolia, France, Japan and USA. We know the strategy to protect without superpower intervene.

 

[Yizhi]

ha ha ha, why sympathy? ha ha ha !! Bai nian haow her - bakh nian hou hap !!!

1. a shaihainese male need to own property IN SHANGHAI to be married
2. a shaihainese male need to do the housework after marriage
3. a shaihainese male need to listen to his wife and parents in law
4. ...do we need more? i can come up with more ....
feminists win without firing a shot in shanghai.
and 百年好合 to all married or soon to be married.

 

[Aepsilons]

I see, my friend. This is just a my individual suggestion in the case China have attacked Vietnam-occupied islands. You know that, the economic weapon will result in a heavy loss for enemy. But the best way to protect our nation is to improve economic development and military strength because enemies have to think twice when attack us.

Vietnam have gained independence after a thousand years of Chinese domination, and other wars against Mongolia, France, Japan and USA. We know the strategy to protect without superpower intervene.

Friend,

You are placing an unnecessary collective blame on all Chinese people for the historical grievance. Yes, China controlled what is now Viet Nam a millenia ago. However, friend, that is too long of a time span to maintain such angst. The Mongols tried to invade Japan 2 times in the 13th century , but you do not see Japanese of today maintain a grudge against the Mongolian people, do you? Most of all -- it is unrighteous and wrong to -- place collective blame on an entire people for the decision the leaders of their ancestors did some 1,000 years back.

 

[Shotgunner51]

1. a shaihainese male need to own property IN SHANGHAI to be married
2. a shaihainese male need to do the housework after marriage
3. a shaihainese male need to listen to his wife and parents in law
4. ...do we need more? i can come up with more ....
feminists win without firing a shot in shanghai.
and 百年好合 to all married or soon to be married.

That's all true ... if you know how crazy property prices are here you gonna shed some rears for me ... and I have to pay for two units ... darn
Domestic works too that's true, all mine ... so I gotta hire maids to help, also out of my pitiful salary check ...

 

[Aepsilons]

That's all true ... if you know how crazy property prices are here you gonna shed some rears for me ... and I have to pay for two units ... darn
Domestic works too that's true, all mine ... so I gotta hire maids to help, also out of my pitiful salary check ...

That's one thing that is big difference between Japanese and Chinese girls I've dated. The girls I dated in Japan were pretty much traditional and generally (well, most of the time) they are submissive to the man. Here in US, i dated a Chinese girl, and it was the first time in my life where i had to "hold her bag" whenever she goes to the bathroom if we go to the malls here. I was awed by this. That and when we go shopping, not only did i have to buy it, but she always asks me to "hold the bags".

I always joke around that she is always a "Chinese Princess" !! ha ha

Also, Chinese girls like to hold hands very often. Japanese girls -- not so much. Affection is only inside the house...

 

[Nice_guy]

Friend,

You are placing an unnecessary collective blame on all Chinese people for the historical grievance. Yes, China controlled what is now Viet Nam a millenia ago. However, friend, that is too long of a time span to maintain such angst. The Mongols tried to invade Japan 2 times in the 13th century , but you do not see Japanese of today maintain a grudge against the Mongolian people, do you? Most of all -- it is unrighteous and wrong to -- place collective blame on an entire people for the decision the leaders of their ancestors did some 1,000 years back.

Hi guys, what I mean is that a preventative act is a must when living next to a giant like China. Those authorities from China never give up to invade any land/sea from Vietnam as we have learnt from national history at school, every single Chinese dynasty aimed to destroy and assimilate Vietnam into Central Kingdom. I don't mean that all Chinese are our enemy, it may be correct to blame on the government.

We would like to co-develop with China (other countries as well) and enjoy a better living standard. Hopefully, no family will lost its members for defending Vietnam from enemy's invasion.

 

[Yizhi]

That's all true ... if you know how crazy property prices are here you gonna shed some rears for me ... and I have to pay for two units ... darn
Domestic works too that's true, all mine ... so I gotta hire maids to help, also out of my pitiful salary check ...

buddy....i'll always support you spiritually....just hold on there...

That's one thing that is big difference between Japanese and Chinese girls I've dated. The girls I dated in Japan were pretty much traditional and generally (well, most of the time) they are submissive to the man. Here in US, i dated a Chinese girl, and it was the first time in my life where i had to "hold her bag" whenever she goes to the bathroom if we go to the malls here. I was awed by this. That and when we go shopping, not only did i have to buy it, but she always asks me to "hold the bags".

I always joke around that she is always a "Chinese Princess" !! ha ha

Also, Chinese girls like to hold hands very often. Japanese girls -- not so much. Affection is only inside the house...

em...i would say the traditional part is still there, yet the 'submissive to the man' part is just gone forever....
plus chinese girls generally stick to their career after getting married....economic independence does make a difference.
btw i think the "hold the bags" thing also has its origin in shanghai....somehow spread all over china.

 

[Aepsilons]

Hi guys, what I mean is that a preventative act is a must when living next to a giant like China. Those authorities from China never give up to invade any land/sea from Vietnam as we have learnt from national history at school, every single Chinese dynasty aimed to destroy and assimilate Vietnam into Central Kingdom. I don't mean that all Chinese are our enemy, it may be correct to blame on the government.

We would like to co-develop with China (other countries as well) and enjoy a better living standard. Hopefully, no family will lost its members for defending Vietnam from enemy's invasion.

I just wanted to clarify. And to be objective, i also want to add some historical information (relative recent history) here as well. During 1941 when the Imperial Japanese 28th Area Army invaded French Indochina, it conquered the entire French Indochina in 5 days. And throughout the occupation, until we surrendered to the French, there was estimated around 2,000,000 Vietnamese who died due to starvation becaues of the disaffected farming regions, the forced acquisition of much needed rice and food supplies by the Imperial Japanese Army (not something that i'm very proud of, actually). Then there was the Vietnamese-French Revolutionary War and the people who died in it. Then there was the Vietnamese War with the Americans, where it is estimated that as much as 1-2 million Vietnamese died in fighting.

Why I am bringing this up ? I'm bringing this up because no side -- be it Japanese, American, French, Chinese -- has any 'clean hands' regarding the strategic importance of Vietnam. I can understand the nationalism amongst your countrymen against China -- understandably fueled by the recent oil rig situation.

Nevertheless. If the warming and strong partnership between Japan and Vietnam over the years serves as a lesson --- it is this --- that historical qualms and grievances can be forgiven, and mutual interests can bind the throngs of two nations. There is no reason why Vietnam and China cannot cooperate in a more positive assessment -- in all fields: economic, cultural, political. I'm sure Vietnam can afford do this. Afterall, it already enjoys a strong relationship with Japan and the United States, both of whom at some point in history -- had occupied Vietnam.


Adieu,

 

[AgentOrange]

Good, keep 'preferring' peace and let us invite US-Russia-India to Cam Ranh base to control your crucial shipping lane in SCS(east sea).

All 3 at the same time. In the same base as well. That will definitely work. You've really thought this one through haven't you?

Do you have a Chinese relative named Superboy by any chance?

 

[Shotgunner51]

I see, my friend. This is just a my individual suggestion in the case China have attacked Vietnam-occupied islands. You know that, the economic weapon will result in a heavy loss for enemy. But the best way to protect our nation is to improve economic development and military strength because enemies have to think twice when attack us.

Vietnam have gained independence after a thousand years of Chinese domination, and other wars against Mongolia, France, Japan and USA. We know the strategy to protect without superpower intervene.

I understand this general negative emotion towards CN among VN people. Just that as I said what you or your fellow countryman have suggested so far (ally with a big power; marine police's "sea wolves" tactic) may not be viable and serves the best interests of VN, and so the strategy needs some rethinking.

If the policy makers of VN ask for advices, what would you offer? May I offer my opinions as follow:
- Naturally keeping a fair size of military is necessary, we don't live in fairy tales. But how? I would say in order to kill two birds with one stone, we should reinvest our defense spend into our own defense industries, which have long value chains and can drive development in other industries thru ripple effect. Details? Let's further discuss. Action now? Reduce overseas purchase to a minimum. Don't ruin economic development for the sake of building defense, that's principle.
- Easier said than done, weak industrial base not big enough to support immediate need. Then you have to re-evaluate your need, that's the tricky part.
- The threat arises from territorial dispute from the east, hence from the sea. VN industrial base can't build navy or air-force immediately. On the other hand, if threat/challenge comes from west i.e. land, VN army and its military industries can deal with easily. VN should find a way to swap this direction of threat.
- The threat arises from territorial dispute, the rocks. Are these rocks vital to VN's business/security? Whether yes por no, seems flaming nationalism is a factor that makes the sovereignty an untouchable agenda. But think twice, serving national interests is the key objective, nothing is untouchable.
- Who is threat coming from? China of course. Analyse it. Say both are communist countries hence .... , China has vested interests in the whole of Indo-China peninsula hence ..., etc.
I believe Yu Zhengsheng and his counterpart in VN are way smarter than me, hope they see the bigger picture and find a negotiate a win-win result. During the mean time, we can continue to play strategist, maybe we can influence them, who knows...