China uses Pakistan to blunt India's NSG membership bid

[pragmatic_dude]

The problem is if India gets NSG membership first, they will then have "veto" power over Pakistan's NSG aspirations.

That's why China says they must both enter at the same time.

I agree that is a legimate concern of china. But that is also like saying the doors of NSG are l closed for India for a long time .

My reasons for believing that are :

A.Q Khan
The ghost of pakistan still hangs over pakistan and will continue to be a roadblock for their member ship for some time still in future.

Econonomy :

Lets not kid ourselves , we got the 123 agreement because U.S saw a huge economic opportunity in India in nuclear sector . U.S nuclear lobby worked in tandem along with indian lobby to make it happen .

For the NSG waiver , Russia was any way it was getting the indian nuclear pie before the agreement so it was all too happy to give their support. It made more tech transfer to india for them more feasable
It was because of the diplomatic push of these two countries that the troublesome middle countries like new zeland, austria, ireland,Switzerland finally gave their reluctant approval .

Agenda Pusher :
India had two big pushers for it : US and Russia .
Pakistan in the future will most probably have China and A BIG MAYBE ( Russia)
I am not being snobby here but both of them do not have much sway with the troublesome scandavian countries that i mentioned above .

Image in general:

Although this is also a very important point i wont stress on it much because it usually results in flame war . But it is a fact that india is regarded much better in diplomatic community then pakistan .I truly regard that NSG waiver was a unique exception to the rule . I think it is because
we enjoyed good relations with everybody (atleast most of them). Never took any explcit side
in any major conflic ( We were mostly neutral in Syria , palestine , Libya , Iraq , cold war) . All those abstaining in U.N worked finally i guess .

So all of these factors did combine to position us in such unique position to get us where we are and i don't think pakistan is anywhere close to getting to that position .

 

[Nilgiri]

You're right.That's enough trolling. Time to be serious .

5 questions -

When are you going to get a waiver for iron brother a la the US did India & prove to iron brother that you are indeed iron brother to them & not some evil opprtunist like the US ?

When are you going to claim the Senkaku islands like you did the Scarborough shoals

When are you going to seize the all of the Spratly's from Vietnam ?

When are you quitting UNCLOS, now that they've slapped you on your face ?

When are you going to force India to hand over the Dalai Lama to you ?

When are you going to seize Arunachal Pradesh i.e South Tibet ?

When are you going to payback the US in its own coin by installing your copy of the THAAD in Central / South America ?

When are you going to payback the US in its own coin by installing your copy of the THAAD , at least in iron brother ( #2? Or is it #1?) DPRK for what the RoK / US is doing to you ?

When are you going to " hose spray " USN ships in the SCS sailing across the 9 dash line ?

& finally , when are you going to invade RoC?

Remember , you maybe a great power & the 2 nd largest economy in the world , but if you don't achieve all of the above considering you initiated all the provocations , then there is no difference between you & your iron brothers .You are then just a paper tiger.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You're right.That's enough trolling. Time to be serious .

5 questions -

When are you going to get a waiver for iron brother a la the US did India & prove to iron brother that you are indeed iron brother to them & not some evil opprtunist like the US ?

When are you going to claim the Senkaku islands like you did the Scarborough shoals

When are you going to seize the all of the Spratly's from Vietnam ?

When are you quitting UNCLOS, now that they've slapped you on your face ?

When are you going to force India to hand over the Dalai Lama to you ?

When are you going to seize Arunachal Pradesh i.e South Tibet ?

When are you going to payback the US in its own coin by installing your copy of the THAAD in Central / South America ?

When are you going to payback the US in its own coin by installing your copy of the THAAD , at least in iron brother ( #2? Or is it #1?) DPRK for what the RoK / US is doing to you ?

When are you going to " hose spray " USN ships in the SCS sailing across the 9 dash line ?

& finally , when are you going to invade RoC?

Remember , you maybe a great power & the 2 nd largest economy in the world , but if you don't achieve all of the above considering you initiated all the provocations , then there is no difference between you & your iron brothers .You are then just a paper tiger.

We are only a developing country.

We are not a superpower like India is.

India to become a superpower by 2012: President Kalam - Economic Times

Though it must suck for this Indian superpower to have to keep begging China for the NSG and UNSC seats.

 

[Indiran Chandiran]

You gave them the CHIC-4 blueprint. Thats a basic fission primary only.

Apart from the fact that there's just the Ra'ad & Nasr in nos ( some 30-40 ) The Shaheens , The Babur's the Ghaznavi are all show pieces borrowed from PRC totalling some 8-10 pieces each.

They haven't gone beyond a 1st gen or 2nd gen N fission bomb.more dirty bomb actually .They're believed to be setting up their N re processing plant now in Kahuta (?)

I understand that they've just about conducted a FBF in NK.Thanks to China .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Nehru thought exactly the same.

 

[Nilgiri]

Nehru thought exactly the same.

And it was proven to be true by Indira Gandhi...and later the Vietnamese too.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Apart from the fact that there's just the Ra'ad & Nasr in nos ( some 30-40 ) The Shaheens , The Babur's the Ghaznavi are all show pieces borrowed from PRC totalling some 8-10 pieces each.

They haven't gone beyond a 1st gen or 2nd gen N fission bomb.more dirty bomb actually .They're believed to be setting up their N re processing plant now in Kahuta (?)

I understand that they've just about conducted a FBF in NK.Thanks to China .

If we tested nukes on Pakistan's behalf it is very possible that they have full thermonuclear capability. Since we conducted a very large number of thermonuclear tests, any one of those could have been done for Pakistan.

Meaning even a single one of their nukes would be several times more powerful than India's entire arsenal of fission bombs.

Now where are those "surgical strikes"?

Remember , you maybe a great power & the 2 nd largest economy in the world , but if you don't achieve all of the above considering you initiated all the provocations , then there is no difference between you & your iron brothers .You are then just a paper tiger.

P.S -

Forcibly seizing a vast chunk of India's territory (Aksai Chin) was good enough I guess, for a developing country.

 

[Nilgiri]

Apart from the fact that there's just the Ra'ad & Nasr in nos ( some 30-40 ) The Shaheens , The Babur's the Ghaznavi are all show pieces borrowed from PRC totalling some 8-10 pieces each.

They haven't gone beyond a 1st gen or 2nd gen N fission bomb.more dirty bomb actually .They're believed to be setting up their N re processing plant now in Kahuta (?)

I understand that they've just about conducted a FBF in NK.Thanks to China .

Thats fine, we will grow our economy and implement all countermeasures, whether they be BMD, AWACs security matrix and strong C4I network for these.

It would be prudent as well to say nuclear strikes count as such from time of launch (i.e whether they land or not on our side will not matter). That will add another element for the enemy to think about given they will be feeling their full half of MAD, whereas it will be mitigated on our side...hopefully at or close to 0 as we outspend significantly from here on out.

 

[Indiran Chandiran]

If we tested nukes on Pakistan's behalf it is very possible that they have full thermonuclear capability. Since we conducted a very large number of thermonuclear tests, any one of those could have been done for Pakistan.

Meaning even a single one of their nukes would be several times more powerful than India's entire arsenal of fission bombs.

Now where are those "surgical strikes"?



Forcibly seizing a vast chunk of India's territory (Aksai Chin) was good enough I guess, for a developing country.

Paper tigers seldom roar .if you had passed on the TN designs to Pak , you could your backsides goodbye.Pakistan is the first nation which would boot you .yes the same Pakistan - your iron brother.It's because they're so dependent on you for everything connected to their NWP that they keep lapping up to you .

We seized Tawang & Arunachal Pradesh from you .Remember Tawang is the birthplace of your patron saint - the Dalai Lama who's to be re incarnated in India.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Paper tigers seldom roar .if you had passed on the TN designs to Pak , you could your backsides goodbye.

We seized Tawang & Arunachal Pradesh from you .Remember Tawang is the birthplace of your patron saint - the Dalai Lama who's to be re incarnated in India.

Last time you thought that it was 1962. You guys are exactly the same as Nehru.

And if we tested nukes on Pakistan's behalf there is no reason to just give them fission bombs, that makes no sense. Since we had thermonuclear tech for ages already.

 

[Indiran Chandiran]

Last time you thought that it was 1962. You guys are exactly the same as Nehru.

And if we tested nukes on Pakistan's behalf there is no reason to just give them fission bombs, that makes no sense. Since we had thermonuclear tech for ages already.

So when are you seizing Tawang from us ?

P.S


5 questions -

When are you going to get a waiver for iron brother a la the US did India & prove to iron brother that you are indeed iron brother to them & not some evil opprtunist like the US ?

When are you going to claim the Senkaku islands like you did the Scarborough shoals

When are you going to seize the all of the Spratly's from Vietnam ?

When are you quitting UNCLOS, now that they've slapped you on your face ?

When are you going to force India to hand over the Dalai Lama to you ?

When are you going to seize Arunachal Pradesh i.e South Tibet ?

When are you going to payback the US in its own coin by installing your copy of the THAAD in Central / South America ?

When are you going to payback the US in its own coin by installing your copy of the THAAD , at least in iron brother ( #2? Or is it #1?) DPRK for what the RoK / US is doing to you ?

When are you going to " hose spray " USN ships in the SCS sailing across the 9 dash line ?

& finally , when are you going to invade RoC?

Remember , you maybe a great power & the 2 nd largest economy in the world , but if you don't achieve all of the above considering you initiated all the provocations , then there is no difference between you & your iron brothers .You are then just a paper tiger.

 

[Nilgiri]

And if we tested nukes on Pakistan's behalf there is no reason to just give them fission bombs, that makes no sense. Since we had thermonuclear tech for ages already.

There is a larger screen of deniability with just a crude 60's era fission blueprint.

A multi-stage thermonuclear device does not fit in the Chinese model of WMD export to Pakistan and North Korea.....especially when they end up testing them and seismic signatures are compared to Chinese tests.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

There is a larger screen of deniability with just a crude 60's era fission blueprint.

A multi-stage thermonuclear device does not fit in the Chinese model of WMD export to Pakistan and North Korea.....especially when they end up testing them and seismic signatures are compared to Chinese tests.

No the accusation is that we TESTED nuclear warheads on Pakistan's behalf.

Which means that any of our large number of thermonuclear tests could have been for Pakistan.

And given the time period, Chinese warheads tended to be around 4-5 megatons a piece, enough to take out a megacity in one shot.

Compare that to India's total arsenal, which has been estimated at only 1 megaton TOTAL.

 

[Areesh]

So when are you seizing Tawang from us ?

P.S

Instead of asking moronic questions you should thank China for not taking Tawang back in 62 war even when they could have captured it with ease.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Instead of asking moronic questions you should thank China for not taking Tawang back in 62 war even when they could have captured it with ease.

AP too.

Indian forces were catastrophically defeated at AP, far worse than the western sector.

It was only because China left voluntarily that they still have it today.