China unveils 5-point formula to improve ties with India

[SamantK]

You did NOT say, CPC did NOT say that, But the previous poster to whom I replied said that!

Chinese were stronger in 1962... But NOT that stronger to capture New Delhi!

I was more interested in the point that they attacked to gain territory, if you have any material on that I would like to read it.

I have not come across any source that says otherwise.

 

[dabong1]

Why did they did that? War ethics state that if you want to occupy a foreign land, First you should wage war and then withdraw your troops and then negotiate with them and get things in your favor? I think it was NEVER a practice from 10000 BC.
If they follow that practice they why did Askai Chin was NOT vacated? Food for thought!

If you accept that the chinese did withdraw back to there postions there some reasons for that.
The Askai Chin point is not really a solid argument as it its already in the disputed region of kashmir and historically the indian argument does hold weight.
W. H. Johnson, a civil servant with the Survey of India proposed the "Johnson Line" in 1865, which put Aksai Chin in Kashmir. This was the time of the Dungan revolt, when China did not control Xinjiang, so this line was never presented to the Chinese. Johnson's work was severely criticized for gross inaccuracies, with description of his boundary as "patently absurd". Johnson was reprimanded by the British Government and resigned from the Survey.
In the 1890s Britain and China were allies and Britain was principally concerned that Aksai Chin not fall into Russian hands.The British presented this line to the Chinese in a Note by Sir Claude MacDonald. The Chinese did not respond to the Note, and the British took that as Chinese acquiescence.This line, known as the Macartney-MacDonald line, is approximately the same as the current Line of Actual Control. The boundary remained undemarcated at India's independence.
During the 1950s, the People's Republic of China built a 1,200 km (750 mi) road connecting Xinjiang and western Tibet, of which 179 km (112 mi) ran south of the Johnson Line through the Aksai Chin region claimed by India.Aksai Chin was easily accessible to the Chinese, but was more difficult for the Indians on the other side of the Karakorams to reach.The Indians did not learn of the existence of the road until 1957, which was confirmed when the road was shown in Chinese maps published in 1958.
The Chinese minister Zhou Enlai argued that the western border had never been delimited, that the Macartney-MacDonald Line, which left the Aksai Chin within Chinese borders was the only line ever proposed to a Chinese government, and that the Aksai Chin was already under Chinese jurisdiction, and that negotiations should take into account the status quo.
After realising the magnitude of the attack, the Indian Western Command withdrew many of the isolated outposts to the south-east. Daulet Beg Oldi was also evacuated, but it was south of the Chinese claim line and was not approached by Chinese forces. Indian troops were withdrawn in order to consolidate and regroup in the event that China probed south of their claim line.

If they completely defeated us then why retreat? They could have asked us to sign instrument of surrender right and got the settlement in their favor!

If your thinking short term then thats what you would do.....but if your thinking about something more lasting then it has to be negotiated.

Did they got warning from the Americans?

That has to be put into the equation also the weather moving in and other factors but that still does not take away the fact the chinese after crossing into land that they never claimed retreated back to what they classed as the boundary.......so basically giving up conquered land.

But whether PLAF had that capabilities then? A questions cannot be answered! So as I said earlier let us not delve into if's and but's...

If your airforce was capable of attacking the the chinese am no expert but am pretty the chinese could do the same to you.

If that was true they why did they still kept Askai Chin?

Look at a map and tell me honestly if you asked who it Askai Chin belongs to without all the historical baggage what your answer would be.

If they want negotiated settlement then why did they became a party in Indo-Pakistan Kashmir dispute but getting a piece of Kashmir from Pakistan?

On October 13, 1962, China and Pakistan began negotiations over the boundary west of the Karakoram Pass. In 1963, the two countries settled their boundaries largely on the basis of the Macartney-MacDonald Line, which left the Trans Karakoram Tract in China, although the agreement provided for renegotiation in the event of a settlement of the Kashmir dispute.

NEW DELHI: Prominent lawyer AG Noorani has rebuffed the impression created by the Indian government, and widely accepted by Kashmiri leaders, that Pakistan ceded some Kashmiri territory to China in 1963.
“Based on documentary and archival evidence, Pakistan did not cede any land. On the contrary, it was China which ceded 750 square miles of administered territory to Pakistan under the Pakistan-China boundary agreement of March 3, 1963,”

Why did they make Pakistan a nuclear power?

Pakistan's nuclear energy programme was established and started in 1956 ,Pakistan became a participant in U.S President Eisenhower's "Atoms for Peace Program."
Canada build Pakistan's first civil-purpose nuclear power plant.
The chinese help came after ,more in the 80s and onwards and you could say that by then the chinese realized the indian would not come to the table but just raise the ante and thats what led them more into the pakistan camp.
Have you never thought that the during the 50s and 60s india had more in common with china while pakistan was a outright ally of the USA who where on bad terms with the chinese after the korean war and some how the paksitanis have ended up as there ally.
I know am going into buts and ifs but how different the scenario could have been for pakistan if you could have made a friend of china.

Crossing the Himalayas is NOT an easy task... Holds good even now! Who knew whether they had enough Ammunition's to carry on... we will never know, they still don't have free media in 2013... No need to tell 1962... There are some theories that they got warnings from the Americans with nuclear strike!

I should have never mentioned the delhi thing......The point i was trying to make was that the chinese have no expansionist motive when it comes to india ( india).
Am pretty sure india has no intent on conquering china or vice versa and if they could sort these few border issues it would be better for both nations.

From a pakistani point of view its the longer the border issue between you two is not sorted the more the chinese fall into pakistani arms.

 

[gpit]

Are you definitely living in America, if yes how long and if for any considerable period this could be the most stupid post coming from any person living in a democracy.

A Chinese who has not seen any other country can be understandable in saying the above, cause the media is not very differerent from the Govt. The statements you mention are mere statements from the media. Show me one Govt. offcial making these absurd statements?

1) Don’t attempt to equal India democracy to US democracy. We don’t have that type of sham democracy that former officials (such as Mr. Fernandez) ejected such reckless and undiplomatic comments.

2) In a democratic society, media, reflecting mass thinking, influence government behavior. If mass wanted to “kill China”, the government would follow. (But China is too strong for you to dare.)

Thus, it is not a “mere” medium statement. It is a message welcomed by, resonating among, well consumed by, your democracy mass, poor and rich alike, as it imaginably helps to let out your suppressed dark psychology since 1962, in a fictitious way of course…

 

[Kaniska]

Okay I see nothing is going to change anything soon between your two´s China and India.

This is just a typical media stunt by Chines Premier to Indian media...Nothing on the ground may change...

 

[Abhishek_]

chit-chat between the diplomats is fine. actual ground realities won't change that quickly.
but then, status-quo isn't so bad either.

 

[Jackdaws]

China can unveil any agenda it likes. As Asia's premier civilization, it is the duty of India to help our Chinese brothers take baby steps toward democracy so that maybe in a few generations China can be where India today is - a vibrant, growing democracy with freedom of press, freedom of religion and freedom of expression. Can you imagine a Chinese version of Arundhati Roy? If she was Chinese - she would either be living in exile or be shot by the repressive Communist Chinese regime. India's one point agent is enough for the Chinese - help the Chinese!

 

[Viet]

a helpless situation...China & India relation

 

[Rocky25]

If you accept that the chinese did withdraw back to there postions there some reasons for that.
The Askai Chin point is not really a solid argument as it its already in the disputed region of kashmir and historically the indian argument does hold weight.
W. H. Johnson, a civil servant with the Survey of India proposed the "Johnson Line" in 1865, which put Aksai Chin in Kashmir. This was the time of the Dungan revolt, when China did not control Xinjiang, so this line was never presented to the Chinese. Johnson's work was severely criticized for gross inaccuracies, with description of his boundary as "patently absurd". Johnson was reprimanded by the British Government and resigned from the Survey.
In the 1890s Britain and China were allies and Britain was principally concerned that Aksai Chin not fall into Russian hands.The British presented this line to the Chinese in a Note by Sir Claude MacDonald. The Chinese did not respond to the Note, and the British took that as Chinese acquiescence.This line, known as the Macartney-MacDonald line, is approximately the same as the current Line of Actual Control. The boundary remained undemarcated at India's independence.
During the 1950s, the People's Republic of China built a 1,200 km (750 mi) road connecting Xinjiang and western Tibet, of which 179 km (112 mi) ran south of the Johnson Line through the Aksai Chin region claimed by India.Aksai Chin was easily accessible to the Chinese, but was more difficult for the Indians on the other side of the Karakorams to reach.The Indians did not learn of the existence of the road until 1957, which was confirmed when the road was shown in Chinese maps published in 1958.
The Chinese minister Zhou Enlai argued that the western border had never been delimited, that the Macartney-MacDonald Line, which left the Aksai Chin within Chinese borders was the only line ever proposed to a Chinese government, and that the Aksai Chin was already under Chinese jurisdiction, and that negotiations should take into account the status quo.
After realising the magnitude of the attack, the Indian Western Command withdrew many of the isolated outposts to the south-east. Daulet Beg Oldi was also evacuated, but it was south of the Chinese claim line and was not approached by Chinese forces. Indian troops were withdrawn in order to consolidate and regroup in the event that China probed south of their claim line.

Why does Askai Chin does NOT hold any weight? If it is disputed between India and Pakistan, does it give any right to China to grab from us? Also the bold part still does not make any sense.

Don't go much into British stories, India Army controlled that area... If you so concerned that everything should be settled on tables, China should have backed out!

If your thinking short term then thats what you would do.....but if your thinking about something more lasting then it has to be negotiated.

This is utter stupidity... China can have Askai Chin and NOT Arunachal Pradesh... They can have Arunachal pradesh negotated but NOT Askai Chin... So what make you think that we should forget Askai Chin?

That has to be put into the equation also the weather moving in and other factors but that still does not take away the fact the chinese after crossing into land that they never claimed retreated back to what they classed as the boundary.......so basically giving up conquered land.

That can also be because of shortage of supply lines and cannot withhold the territory grabbed for too long!

If your airforce was capable of attacking the the chinese am no expert but am pretty the chinese could do the same to you.

Let us NOT delve into things which did NOT happen.... Shortly we will never knew the answers!

Look at a map and tell me honestly if you asked who it Askai Chin belongs to without all the historical baggage what your answer would be.

Let me tell you that most of China was ruled by Mongolia at one part of time, So will China give all the land to Mongolia now? It is Pathetic argument... If you hold something then that is yours... As simple as that! We controlled the land for many decades and it is ours... but forward policy was a blunder.

On October 13, 1962, China and Pakistan began negotiations over the boundary west of the Karakoram Pass. In 1963, the two countries settled their boundaries largely on the basis of the Macartney-MacDonald Line, which left the Trans Karakoram Tract in China, although the agreement provided for renegotiation in the event of a settlement of the Kashmir dispute.

An enemy of my enemy is my friend.... apart from that everything is bulllShhit..... So that was the reason to make Pakistan a nuclear power?

NEW DELHI: Prominent lawyer AG Noorani has rebuffed the impression created by the Indian government, and widely accepted by Kashmiri leaders, that Pakistan ceded some Kashmiri territory to China in 1963.
“Based on documentary and archival evidence, Pakistan did not cede any land. On the contrary, it was China which ceded 750 square miles of administered territory to Pakistan under the Pakistan-China boundary agreement of March 3, 1963,”

'Pakistan ceded Shaksgam Valley to China in a boundary agreement in 1963'

I googled, I found that only that Noorani comments, Kindly provide me another neutral proof.

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan
http://www.claws.in/print_article.php?recNo=72&u_id=7

Pakistan's nuclear energy programme was established and started in 1956 ,Pakistan became a participant in U.S President Eisenhower's "Atoms for Peace Program."
Canada build Pakistan's first civil-purpose nuclear power plant.
The chinese help came after ,more in the 80s and onwards and you could say that by then the chinese realized the indian would not come to the table but just raise the ante and thats what led them more into the pakistan camp.
Have you never thought that the during the 50s and 60s india had more in common with china while pakistan was a outright ally of the USA who where on bad terms with the chinese after the korean war and some how the paksitanis have ended up as there ally.

It is disheartening to see why India cannot make South Korea and Vietnam as nuclear powers... Indian political class does NOT have balls, Ok that is different issue altogether.... China and India are emerging economies... So the table negotiations should be acceptable to both parties... How will China negotiate as equals when it has missiles which can reach any part of India when India does not those capabilities then?

Anyways you can have prosperous Pakistan as allay... soon terrorists got training from Pakistan will attach China... They have China in Radar.

I know am going into buts and ifs but how different the scenario could have been for pakistan if you could have made a friend of china.

India - China trade is in 60 Billion US $ and it is heavily in China's favor and it keeps going.... I hope China will not mess that so easily and who knows what future has?

I should have never mentioned the delhi thing......The point i was trying to make was that the chinese have no expansionist motive when it comes to india ( india).
Am pretty sure india has no intent on conquering china or vice versa and if they could sort these few border issues it would be better for both nations.

I concur.

From a pakistani point of view its the longer the border issue between you two is not sorted the more the chinese fall into pakistani arms.

No issues, If China nurtures Pakistan... it is because they do NOT want to engauge in war with India.... As far as India have 10X the defense budget of Pakistan for 1-2 decades... It will be meaningless for China to waste resource on Pakistan!

 

[dabong1]

Why does Askai Chin does NOT hold any weight? If it is disputed between India and Pakistan, does it give any right to China to grab from us?

The chinese say it belongs to them and the pakistani agree......your the odd one out.

Also the bold part still does not make any sense.

Facts never make sense when it goes against your argument.

W. H. Johnson, a civil servant with the Survey of India proposed the "Johnson Line" (what the indians claim as the border)in 1865, which put Aksai Chin in Kashmir. This was the time of the Dungan revolt, when China did not control Xinjiang, so this line was never presented to the Chinese.

British took that as Chinese acquiescence.This line, known as the Macartney-MacDonald line, in the 1890s is approximately the same as the current Line of Actual Control.

How come you accept the first border "Johnson Line" what was done the british but the then reject the "Macartney-MacDonald Line" which was the last border before the british left had with the chinese?

Don't go much into British stories, India Army controlled that area... If you so concerned that everything should be settled on tables, China should have backed out!

I dont think you understand.......the british made the border the "Johnson Line" which india wants as the border even though at the time even though "Johnson's work was severely criticized for gross inaccuracies, with description of his boundary as "patently absurd". Johnson was reprimanded by the British Government and resigned from the Survey."

The Macartney-MacDonald Line is the the one the British-chinese accepted before the british left india but somehow india thinks it can unilaterally change the border.

This is utter stupidity... China can have Askai Chin and NOT Arunachal Pradesh... They can have Arunachal pradesh negotated but NOT Askai Chin... So what make you think that we should forget Askai Chin?

You where convinced the chinese had not withdrawn from conquered indian land.....proven wrong now your jumping onto something else.At least accept that the chinese withdrew from indian land they had conquered some i am sure the indian would have never done if the boot was on the other foot.

Let me tell you that most of China was ruled by Mongolia at one part of time, So will China give all the land to Mongolia now? It is Pathetic argument...

Whats pathetic is your attempt to take it to an extreme.
The British accepted the border with china.......The Macartney-MacDonald Line is the the one the British-chinese accepted before the british left india

If you hold something then that is yours... As simple as that! We controlled the land for many decades and it is ours...

Does the same standard apply to a thief.....once a stolen item is kept long enough its yours?

An enemy of my enemy is my friend....

But the enemys friend used to be your friend.....the question was how did you manage to push the chinese into helping the pakistanis.

So that was the reason to make Pakistan a nuclear power?

Did you bother to read the bit about the US helping pakistan start up its nuclear programme and the canadians suppling the the first reactor?

Pakistan's nuclear energy programme was established and started in 1956 ,Pakistan became a participant in U.S President Eisenhower's "Atoms for Peace Program."
Canada build Pakistan's first civil-purpose nuclear power plant.
The chinese help came after ,more in the 80s and onwards

'Pakistan ceded Shaksgam Valley to China in a boundary agreement in 1963'

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan
http://www.claws.in/print_article.php?recNo=72&u_id=7

I have read the above article and i dont see your point your trying to make........pakistan is not denying it did not exchange territory with china but like mr noorani says pakistan ended with more land then china.

I googled, I found that only that Noorani comments, Kindly provide me another neutral proof.

Abdul Gafoor Abdul Majeed Noorani, known popularly as A. G. Noorani, (born 16 September 1930) is a Indian lawyer, historian and author. He has practised as an advocate in the Supreme Court of India and in the Bombay High Court. He is one of the few remaining experts on the Constitution of India from his generation.

A G Noorani | Facebook
Make him your friend and mail him or go the times of india and get his email......heres another quote below.

Professor M. Taylor Fravel of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) has written a definitive work on China's territorial disputes. In an outstandingly able survey, he provides, with copious references to Chinese sources, an overview that reveals China's outlook on the disputes. This is what this scholar of unimpeachable credentials has to say on what the China-Pakistan boundary agreement actually provides:

“China maintained control over more of the disputed territory, but the agreement overall was more favourable to Pakistan. China kept roughly 5,309 square kilometres it contested in the Shaksgam Valley. However, it transferred control of some 1,942 square kilometres of territory in the Oprang Valley to Pakistan, which also maintained control over an additional 1,554 square kilometres of territory it already held. On balance, Pakistan seems to have gained more from the deal, as the final borderline followed closely the line of actual control advocated by Pakistan. China not only abandoned its claims to the Hunza, but Pakistan also received grazing areas in the Prang and Bund Darwaza valleys, the Kharachanai salt mine, and the town of Sokh Bulaq. In addition, Pakistan kept control over three-fourths of K2 as well as six of seven disputed mountain passes. Finally, Pakistan transferred no territory already under its control to China.” (Page 116) It was instead China which “transferred control of some 1,942 square kilometres” to Pakistan.
Strong Borders, Secure Nation: Cooperation and Conflict in China's ... - M. Taylor Fravel - Google Books
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2807/stories/20110408280708300.htm

It is disheartening to see why India cannot make South Korea and Vietnam as nuclear powers...

Illusions of grandeur?

So the table negotiations should be acceptable to both parties... How will China negotiate as equals when it has missiles which can reach any part of India when India does not those capabilities then?

Nobody said get rid of all your weapons.

Anyways you can have prosperous Pakistan as allay... soon terrorists got training from Pakistan will attach China...

You wish

They have China in Radar.

Like we dont know RAW are now trying to send there terrorist to china after pakistan.

India - China trade is in 60 Billion US $ and it is heavily in China's favor and it keeps going.... I hope China will not mess that so easily and who knows what future has?

For some strange reason i think it will be india that will "mess up" when it comes to china.

No issues, If China nurtures Pakistan... it is because they do NOT want to engauge in war with India.... As far as India have 10X the defense budget of Pakistan for 1-2 decades... It will be meaningless for China to waste resource on Pakistan!

India can have 100 times the defence budget but at the end the pak nukes have neutralized the indians.

 

[Rocky25]

The chinese say it belongs to them and the pakistani agree......your the odd one out.

An enemy of my enemy is my friend.... Apart from that nothing is true over there... Leaving a small valley for making the country as nuke power worth it!

Facts never make sense when it goes against your argument.

Ha ha ha... good joke!

W. H. Johnson, a civil servant with the Survey of India proposed the "Johnson Line" (what the indians claim as the border)in 1865, which put Aksai Chin in Kashmir. This was the time of the Dungan revolt, when China did not control Xinjiang, so this line was never presented to the Chinese.

British took that as Chinese acquiescence.This line, known as the Macartney-MacDonald line, in the 1890s is approximately the same as the current Line of Actual Control.

How come you accept the first border "Johnson Line" what was done the british but the then reject the "Macartney-MacDonald Line" which was the last border before the british left had with the chinese?

We controlled a territory which China took forcefully.... All those survey, marking.. We don't care what the colonist done!

I dont think you understand.......the british made the border the "Johnson Line" which india wants as the border even though at the time even though "Johnson's work was severely criticized for gross inaccuracies, with description of his boundary as "patently absurd". Johnson was reprimanded by the British Government and resigned from the Survey."

The Macartney-MacDonald Line is the the one the British-chinese accepted before the british left india but somehow india thinks it can unilaterally change the border.

All these are waste of time. You own what you control.... All these lines are waste of time and energy! Chinese caught IA with great surprise.... All boundary discussions are waste of time and both sides know that.... Whether China will come again and wage a war with India in 2013 for those barren lands, I doubt it.... At most they will nurture Pakistan more....

With China starting to make sounds with Japan, It is time for India to work on her defenses.... So that they should NOT mess with us! Only one theory... Might is right!

You where convinced the chinese had not withdrawn from conquered indian land.....proven wrong now your jumping onto something else.At least accept that the chinese withdrew from indian land they had conquered some i am sure the indian would have never done if the boot was on the other foot.

They had withdrawn where their defenses are weak and not withdrawn where their defenses are strong!

Whats pathetic is your attempt to take it to an extreme.
The British accepted the border with china.......The Macartney-MacDonald Line is the the one the British-chinese accepted before the british left india

Again NOT interested in what the British did!

Does the same standard apply to a thief.....once a stolen item is kept long enough its yours?

The British stole the Kohinoor diamond from India... They still have it! It is only national interests that matters.... China provided arms to SL to terminate the LTTE to get a foot hold in SL from where it can needle India... In the process thousands of innocent civilians dies... Does China care about that?

China stole Tibet from the Tibeatens forcefully... Does that make them rightful owner? Does Askai Chin was registered in China's name forever?

But the enemys friend used to be your friend.....the question was how did you manage to push the chinese into helping the pakistanis.

Again Forward policy was a great mistake of Nehru.. No doubt about that!

Did you bother to read the bit about the US helping pakistan start up its nuclear programme and the canadians suppling the the first reactor?

Pakistan's nuclear energy programme was established and started in 1956 ,Pakistan became a participant in U.S President Eisenhower's "Atoms for Peace Program."
Canada build Pakistan's first civil-purpose nuclear power plant.
The chinese help came after ,more in the 80s and onwards

India also imported reactor from Canadians before 1974... If US wanted, they could have stopped that... You mean to say US also helped India becoming nuclear power?

US made Pakistan generate nuclear power for peace.... It is only China which helped Pakistan in testing nuclear weapons after seeing India test smiling Buddha in 1974... All credit goes to China!

I have read the above article and i dont see your point your trying to make........pakistan is not denying it did not exchange territory with china but like mr noorani says pakistan ended with more land then china.

So Pakistan gave a part of Kashmir to China... You told it never happened!

Abdul Gafoor Abdul Majeed Noorani, known popularly as A. G. Noorani, (born 16 September 1930) is a Indian lawyer, historian and author. He has practised as an advocate in the Supreme Court of India and in the Bombay High Court. He is one of the few remaining experts on the Constitution of India from his generation.

A G Noorani | Facebook
Make him your friend and mail him or go the times of india and get his email......heres another quote below.

I am NOT interested in this person, Kindly provide alternate proof if you have!

Professor M. Taylor Fravel of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) has written a definitive work on China's territorial disputes. In an outstandingly able survey, he provides, with copious references to Chinese sources, an overview that reveals China's outlook on the disputes. This is what this scholar of unimpeachable credentials has to say on what the China-Pakistan boundary agreement actually provides:

“China maintained control over more of the disputed territory, but the agreement overall was more favourable to Pakistan. China kept roughly 5,309 square kilometres it contested in the Shaksgam Valley. However, it transferred control of some 1,942 square kilometres of territory in the Oprang Valley to Pakistan, which also maintained control over an additional 1,554 square kilometres of territory it already held. On balance, Pakistan seems to have gained more from the deal, as the final borderline followed closely the line of actual control advocated by Pakistan. China not only abandoned its claims to the Hunza, but Pakistan also received grazing areas in the Prang and Bund Darwaza valleys, the Kharachanai salt mine, and the town of Sokh Bulaq. In addition, Pakistan kept control over three-fourths of K2 as well as six of seven disputed mountain passes. Finally, Pakistan transferred no territory already under its control to China.” (Page 116) It was instead China which “transferred control of some 1,942 square kilometres” to Pakistan.
Strong Borders, Secure Nation: Cooperation and Conflict in China's ... - M. Taylor Fravel - Google Books
China & Kashmir

So Pakistan did provide Shaksgam Valley to China, You told that it never happened? You contradict what you already said!

Illusions of grandeur?

Nope, proof of Indian political class does not have balls!

Nobody said get rid of all your weapons.

You did not understand what I said, Kindly read it again!

You wish

I never wish unarmed civilians getting killed.... I hate terrorism in ALL forms!

Like we dont know RAW are now trying to send there terrorist to china after pakistan.

Ha ha ha... RAW was not capable to detect Kargil intrusion... leave alone sending terrorists to China!

For some strange reason i think it will be india that will "mess up" when it comes to china.

I don't think so... China will flex its muscles.... So India should have ATLEAST 50% of China's declared defense budget... Which is in Pathetic shape!

India can have 100 times the defence budget but at the end the pak nukes have neutralized the indians.

As though ABM systems are complete failure..... for the Americans and Russians to spend billions on it.