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China to conquer world arms market with poor quality rip-offs

I have a genuine concern.

Article suggest that China "copied" Russian technology. Now:

(1) How can USA know about this when Russia can not?
(2) How does it matters to USA in any way?

Oh....I did not ask other questions considering the article is not fair.
 
Of course China is copying from what it gets simply because the US and EU are imposing a strict arms, military and technological embargoes on China. It is not like India which could buy whatever it wants and which is being encouraged to do so by the West.
Currently the US is also pressing Russia not to sell high tech arms to CHina. In 2009 a US citizen had been arrested and imprisoned simply for intending to visit China with a night vision camera in his luggage. Remember the Clinton Administration embargo on the sale of the Israeli early warning radar to CHina in 1999. Same radar had been sold in dozen to India and now US is pressing India to buy the most deadly and technologically advanced US and Israeli Weapons of Mass Destruction (F35, Cluster Bombs, C 17, Hawkeye, F18, Missile technology etc) in view of directing the WMD towards China.
However all such embargoes will not prevent China from climbing to the upper end of Industrial and arms technologies. Now China is building its own bullet train and exporting same to the US, Huawei and ZTE are competing with the top Western telecommunication companies, China is sending its own satellites etc and on top of that China is now the 2nd biggest economy in the World. What about India? All Indian accomplishments are done with the help of the US and Sionists technological assistance. :pakistan::china:
 
Of course China is copying from what it gets simply because the US and EU are imposing a strict arms, military and technological embargoes on China. It is not like India which could buy whatever it wants and which is being encouraged to do so by the West.
Currently the US is also pressing Russia not to sell high tech arms to CHina. In 2009 a US citizen had been arrested and imprisoned simply for intending to visit China with a night vision camera in his luggage. Remember the Clinton Administration embargo on the sale of the Israeli early warning radar to CHina in 1999. Same radar had been sold in dozen to India and now US is pressing India to buy the most deadly and technologically advanced US and Israeli Weapons of Mass Destruction (F35, Cluster Bombs, C 17, Hawkeye, F18, Missile technology etc) in view of directing the WMD towards China.
However all such embargoes will not prevent China from climbing to the upper end of Industrial and arms technologies. Now China is building its own bullet train and exporting same to the US, Huawei and ZTE are competing with the top Western telecommunication companies, China is sending its own satellites etc and on top of that China is now the 2nd biggest economy in the World. What about India? All Indian accomplishments are done with the help of the US and Sionists technological assistance. :pakistan::china:

India is not topic of discussion here. Also bolded part is not correct.
 
US and Sionists technological assistance.

Sionists? Doesn't that mean the Chinese (Sino) ? :lol:

Oh so you mean Zionists, hmm evil Zionist Israel, funny considering Israel is a big partner of China in defence. Infact the Zionist contribution to Sinica is more than the contribution to India

hmmmm

So what does that tell me about your nationality?
 
all Chinese members:

we conquered the indian army in 1962 using our poor quality rip offs, after 32 years economic reforms, our economic strength is now 4 times as strong as india.

do we need to respond losers like the OP? no, we don't.
 
There goes a saying

"to be a successful innovator ,you must a successful imitator first."
 
Of course China is copying from what it gets simply because the US and EU are imposing a strict arms, military and technological embargoes on China. It is not like India which could buy whatever it wants and which is being encouraged to do so by the West.
Currently the US is also pressing Russia not to sell high tech arms to CHina. In 2009 a US citizen had been arrested and imprisoned simply for intending to visit China with a night vision camera in his luggage. Remember the Clinton Administration embargo on the sale of the Israeli early warning radar to CHina in 1999. Same radar had been sold in dozen to India and now US is pressing India to buy the most deadly and technologically advanced US and Israeli Weapons of Mass Destruction (F35, Cluster Bombs, C 17, Hawkeye, F18, Missile technology etc) in view of directing the WMD towards China.
However all such embargoes will not prevent China from climbing to the upper end of Industrial and arms technologies. Now China is building its own bullet train and exporting same to the US, Huawei and ZTE are competing with the top Western telecommunication companies, China is sending its own satellites etc and on top of that China is now the 2nd biggest economy in the World. What about India? All Indian accomplishments are done with the help of the US and Sionists technological assistance. :pakistan::china:

US is like the bad parent who foster their child to beat up the neighbor kid to because the neighbors aren't good people but actually to settle their own adult ego. India is being encourage to shop because US sees disturbing Sino-India peace as means to divert all industrial and investment base back to USA. India is falling in trap slowly!
 
I have a genuine concern.

Article suggest that China "copied" Russian technology. Now:

(1) How can USA know about this when Russia can not?
(2) How does it matters to USA in any way?

Oh....I did not ask other questions considering the article is not fair.

the Pentagon knows everything,including the weapon of mass destruction of Saddam~~
 
I have a genuine concern.

Article suggest that China "copied" Russian technology. Now:

(1) How can USA know about this when Russia can not?
(2) How does it matters to USA in any way?

Oh....I did not ask other questions considering the article is not fair.

USA sees China as an inferior country and the Chinese people as backward people so if China can produced a car then the Chinese must have done something illegal to succeed because inferior Chinese are not capable of anything.

USA uses a new trick which is to picture China as a copy cat and to embarrass the Chinese people the USA ganged up with as many anti-China countries to constantly bash China in their media as a shameless copy cat.

It does matter to USA if China can become self-sufficient in weapon production because USA will no longer be able to blackmail China. Also
if China can become a top world weapon exporter then USA will have
less chances to bully small non-white countries around the world because they can arm themselves with China made weapons.

In the mean time, the West continues to demonize China as a copy cat hoping it will embarrass the Chinese people but the only people who should be embarrassed are Westerners who have no manners.



Read explanation below :

In my view, the concept of reverse engineering has been misunderstood. Reverse engineering is NOT the mindless copying of a product or weapon. Reverse engineering is actually a shortened form of research and development (i.e. R&D).

Let's say that you and I are both in the business of building cars. However, your car is better than mine. Isn't it common sense for me to obtain a sample of your car and study the features and reasons that your car model is better than mine? After a thorough examination, doesn't it make sense for me to improve my product by incorporating your best ideas from the detailed research or reverse engineering?

Reverse engineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Reverse engineering is the process of discovering the technological principles of a device, object or system through analysis of its structure, function and operation. It often involves taking something (e.g., a mechanical device, electronic component, or software program) apart and analyzing its workings in detail to be used in maintenance, or to try to make a new device or program that does the same thing without utilizing any physical part of the original.

Reverse engineering has its origins in the analysis of hardware for commercial or military advantage.[1] The purpose is to deduce design decisions from end products with little or no additional knowledge about the procedures involved in the original production. The same techniques are subsequently being researched for application to legacy software systems, not for industrial or defence ends, but rather to replace incorrect, incomplete, or otherwise unavailable documentation.[2]"

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Let's look at the two examples in the first two posts. China's Yu-6 is clearly a reverse-engineered U.S. Mark-48 heavyweight torpedo. What kind of torpedo is the U.S. using today? The Mark-48. Conclusion: reverse-engineering of the Mark-48 that resulted in the Yu-6 enabled China to catch-up to the U.S. in heavyweight torpedo technology. One U.S. Mark-48 heavyweight torpedo can split a destroyer into two halves. Similarly, a Chinese Yu-6 torpedo can achieve the same devastating effect.

The allegation that China reverse-engineered the W-88 has never been proven. The seismic signatures look similar, but they are not identical. Anyway, for argument's sake, let's assume that China reverse-engineered the W-88. What is the most advanced warhead in the U.S. nuclear arsenal today? The W-88. Using alleged reverse-engineering, China has equal technology and capability in the Chinese W-88. Conclusion: either independent research and development or reverse-engineering (e.g. studying the blueprints of the other team) has resulted in China matching U.S. thermonuclear technology in terms of warhead compactness and yield.

The point is that reverse-engineering is merely one useful tool to help a nation match the military and technological capabilities of another country. Reverse-engineering is a good thing.

India's Nuclear Weapons Program - Present Capabilities
India's Nuclear Weapons Program - Present Capabilities

"The Prithvi is a descendant of an earlier program called "Project Devil", an attempt to reverse engineer the Soviet SA-2 liquid fuel surface-to-air missile by the Defense Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) at Hyderabad. This latter project, initiated under the leadership of Dr. Dr. Basanti Dulal Nag Chaudhuri, was a failure and was cancelled in 1978; nonetheless valuable experience and technical skill was obtained which provided the basis for Prithvi."

Overconfidence Fails Cryogenic Engine | iGoa
Overconfidence Fails Cryogenic Engine | iGoa

"India needs to thank erstwhile Soviet Union and present day Russian republic for the design and blue prints of cryogenic engines. When foreign countries transfer such designs and blueprints there is always a risk in replicating them. Theoretically it is possible for every country to be technologically self reliant. But, practically, it is not possible.
Americans imitated the Germans. Japanese imitate the Americans. Chinese imitate every other country. India is good in reverse engineering foreign technologies. What’s the meaning of indigenisation? It is not an absolutely new design for a cryogenic engine. Indigenisation means fabrication or assembly of the engine indigenously but we really don’t know the extent of foreign components incorporated in an Indian cryogenic engine."

ISRO chief on India's big leap

"Q. But it almost looks like a Russian engine...

A. See cryogenics is a liquid Oxygen and liquid Hydrogen. It is a staged combustion cycle that is there. But we have realized it, the Indians have designed it, the Indians have built it, and 75 percent of the materials are from India that is used.

Q. So it is not reverse engineered?

A. Absolutely.

Q. Because it is really one is to one so how do you say it is not reverse engineered? How can you make people believe that you did not copy the Russian design?

A. It is not one is to one. But if you see the specifications of putting in at that class of the satellite if you work out what is the velocity that needs to be added by the upper stage of the engine- same number you have to provide. So whether it is a Russian engineer designing or Indian engineer designing, it is to the same specification."

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I don't understand the need to deny the obvious. India has already tried to reverse-engineer the "Soviet SA-2 surface-to-air missile." I think many people are more willing to trust their eyes than to believe the claims of the ISRO chief, who is too proud to admit the truth.

The ISRO chief isn't making much sense. The American, Russian, and Chinese cryogenic engines look completely different. They are truly indigenous designs. Why does the Indian cryogenic engine look like the Russians'? Isn't the answer obvious? It's at least partially reverse-engineered.

If the cryogenic engine is fully indigenous, how come 25% of the parts are being imported? Doesn't it make more sense that India has reverse-engineered 75% (e.g. a great achievement for a first attempt) of the Russian cryogenic engine and the 25% that hasn't been reverse-engineered yet must be imported?

After India can fully manufacture 100% of a reverse-engineered Russian cryogenic engine, she will go on to design and build more advanced indigenous versions. This is a natural progression. Reverse-engineering is a necessary intermediate step. It is not realistic to start from zero and build a fully indigenous 28-nanometer computer microprocessor.

Why dance around the issue? There is nothing wrong with reverse-engineering. The Romans reverse-engineered Carthage's superior trireme to finally defeat the Carthaginian navy with their own warship design.

Carthage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Carthage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Roman trireme mosaic from Carthage, Bardo Museum, Tunis ... managed to finally defeat Carthage with a combination of reverse engineering captured ..."
 
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Why the anger? It came from a Russian press. I would be pissed at China too if I were Russian. Nevertheless, it's strategic for Russia to keep all of China's military imports Russian, simply because China will press for reconciliation with the West otherwise.
 
None of those weapons are patented. Chinese J-11s are superior to the Russian original. J-10 is superior to Mig-29. Reverse engineering is a gift, not a crime. Why can't Vietnam reverse engineer anything?

Really? And how is that? And what Mig-29 are you talking about? The KUB the Mig-29K, perhaps the Mig-35?

Guys guys calm the hell down. Everyone is entitled to his/or opinions. The Russians are simply desperate since their traditional market is being taken by China and arms export is a huge part of their economy. If Chinese goods were, as a matter of fact, so poor in quality there wouldn't have been such a large market for them.

Russian arms sales are actually growing, infact Russian arms are finding their way into Nato countries as well as countries that have traditionally operated 'western' arms. Example Greece and South Korea.


Russia's Arms Sales in 2009 Evaluated at $7.4 Billion - English pravda.ru


The company’s export had increased 2.4 times from 2001 to 2009, he added. Today Rosoboronexport ships Russian-made military hardware to over 70 countries of the world.

“We offer new military hardware, technologies and joint production. We believe that the sales volume in 2010 will not be less than that in 2009,” the official said.

Air force weaponry made 50 percent of the company’s shipments to such basic importers as India, Algeria, China, Venezuela, Malaysia and Syria.

In 2008, Russia’s arms shipments to foreign customers were evaluated at $8.35 billion, of which $6.72 billion was the share of Rosoboronexport’s deals.

The business portfolio of the company for 2010 makes up over $34 billion.
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SharePrint version Font Size Send to friend“Russian arms enjoy great popularity with several members of NATO. They are Turkey, Greece and the countries of the Eastern bloc that have Soviet-made arms. The countries that intend to become NATO members evince interest in Russian defense technologies as well,” Isaikin said.

Chinese purchased a lot of R/D data from Russian other than finished goods..those were the days of fallen soviet empire and desperate russians willing to sell anything. They had no money to manufacture finished good and Chinese and Indians made a good exploit of buying the raw data.

That's why Russia gave Iran their money back for the S-300 right?

Chinese excel where Russians fail and that is electronics.


Worthless rant with no sources.

Let me give you a few:

KLJ-7/10 Fire Control Radar (FCR) (China) - Jane's Avionics

J-7 is reportedly similar in basic design to Phazotron N010 Zhuk family of radars; both Phazotron NIIR and rival radar house NIIP have worked closely in the past with Chinese radar design bureaux and provided technical assistance as well as operational models of Russia-made radar sets that were used as benchmarks in the process of Chinese firms developing their own designs. Nanjing have also reportedly drawn on the Galileo Avionica/Finmeccanica Grifo and the Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Elta-2032 in developing their own radar designs. While the basic configuration of the J-7 may be similar to that of the Zhuk family

The Chinese must like 'inferior' and 'faild' electronics too...


More.

JDW: China SD-10 Missile Technology (maybe better than U.S. AIM-120 missile )

CATIC is known to be developing X-band and Ku-band active radar seekers, which may be intended for the SD-10. However the latest reports confirm that China has been co-operating closely with Russia's AGAT Research Institute, based in Moscow, and that AGAT is the source of the SD-10's essential active seeker. This joint development effort (perhaps with the name 'Project 129') has reportedly seen the supply of AGAT's 9B-1348 active-radar seeker (developed for the Vympel R-77, AA-12 'Adder') to China for integration with a Chinese-developed missile, the SD-10. Alternatively, technology from AGAT's 9B-1103M seeker family may be offered to China. Russia is also the source for the missile's inertial navigation system and datalink.



Why are our 'inferior' and 'failed' electronics in Chinese missiles?





The Russian are still offering sukhoi with vacuum tubes..go figure!

You have a source for that?

And a little education lesson for you, Russian aircraft have been using transistors for decades, and when Russia used vacuum tubes in the past it was because of they were Resistible to electromagnetic pulses.



Our 'inferior' and 'failed' electronics some how managed to pack over 1500 TR modules in an AESA radar. Better yet our electronics are so failed that even NASA uses our 'failed' electronics.



China is not only ripping off, it is also investing tons of its own R/D to enhance the product. In Germany exist many tuning and modding industry which take your average off the street Mercedes, porche or any other car for matter and turn it into a super duper performance machine often selling at 2-3 times of sticker price. China is applying the same logic.

The Russian couldn't even configure their own SA-2 SAM to target the american U2 spy planes which frustrated Chinese to the extent that Russian experts along with their manuals for SA-2 were thrown out.

Have you ever heard the internet saying 'cool story bro'? And do you know the meaning of it?
 
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well china is not a stupid country might they have some quality probleums what they lack and their weapons experience of war so they can make slight changes in their weapons to be perfect
 

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