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China to conquer world arms market with poor quality rip-offs

I mean honestly, Russians do need a lot of practice in Journalism, they have multiple contradictions within the same paragraph....Sure, they cant have Capitalism, but they should try for developing sound journalism
 
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Chinese and their partners and friends should welcome such articles, they should hope that the adversaries of the Chinese, of their partners and friends, should be informed by the kind of thinking in the article - it's a great blessing.
 
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None of those weapons are patented. Chinese J-11s are superior to the Russian original. J-10 is superior to Mig-29. Reverse engineering is a gift, not a crime. Why can't Vietnam reverse engineer anything?

Says your imaginary friend Toddy ?
 
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Guys guys calm the hell down. Everyone is entitled to his/or opinions. The Russians are simply desperate since their traditional market is being taken by China and arms export is a huge part of their economy. If Chinese goods were, as a matter of fact, so poor in quality there wouldn't have been such a large market for them.
 
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Chinese purchased a lot of R/D data from Russian other than finished goods..those were the days of fallen soviet empire and desperate russians willing to sell anything. They had no money to manufacture finished good and Chinese and Indians made a good exploit of buying the raw data.
 
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Poor quality maybe a while back but the Chinese have been producing average quality products with great pricing for a while now. I wouldn't call their industry poor quality.
 
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军品就是精品
arm can't tolerate any mistake,it would lead to a disaster.may be didn't as multifunction as other country has ,but there isn't has any poor quality arm.
do you believe your Defense secretary ,who can brought the soldier life as a joke.impossible.less functional I admit but the poor quality I oppose.
 
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Had the Russians substituted "poor quality" for something like "cheaply made", they would have had bigger "bang" for their words.

Quality is always relative to price.

The other problem is that the article quotes too many "Western sources" ... Why hide behind someone else's skirt? Say it out loud what's on Russians' own mind. Criticize at will. At least I am interested.

Anything less is cowardice.
 
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China has built three submarines that bear a striking resemblance to Russian Kilo and Lada subs. It is not really clear how Chinese engineers have managed to rip off the Lada sub, because Russia has not exported any of them yet.

There you have it. It's not a copy since China doesn't have Lada.

Have Chinese engineers observed quality? Most likely, they have not. Foreign military experts said that the new Chinese Yuan is larger than Kilo and Lada, but have common design features. A larger size implies larger tonnage, which in its turn negatively changes military qualities.

Having common design features is not copying either, but just good design philosophy - otherwise you might as well say PAK-FA is just a cheap copy of F-22 since they share common design features.

As for China's underwater fleet, the nation currently has 56 submarines, including three nuclear-powered ones. The increased interest in diesel submarines can be explained with the fact that Chinese nuclear submarines are considered very noisy and therefore are easily detected by US warships.

Chinese subs are "easily detected by US warships"??? - Tell that to the crew of the USS Kitty Hawk!

China previously had the licensed production of Soviet Romeo submarines, which were dubbed in China as "Type 39."


If I recall correctly, Romeos are Type 033 - another proof that the author doesn't know what they're talking about.
 
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China to conquer world arms market with poor quality rip-offs - English pravda.ru

US experts believe that China has copied Russian weapons again. This time it goes about submarines. US analysts say that the new Yuan class (type 41 A, B, C) diesel-electric submarines are rips-off of Russian Kilo and Lada projects.

China purchased several Kilo project submarines from Russia at the end of the 1990s. Back in those years, the subs were considered Russia's most modern non-nuclear submarines as NATO specialists said. Kilo submarines are capable of covering distances of up to 700 kilometers at the speed of 5 km/h in a noiseless mode, without the risk of being detected by enemies. US experts acknowledged that Kilo submarines equipped with SS-N-27 cruise submarines were very dangerous for American aircraft carriers. The cheap price of the deal was the main factor that attracted China: Russia was selling the subs for $200 million each, whereas the cost of Western analogues began from $400 million.

First kilo submarines entered the Soviet navy at the end of the 1980s. Russia built 54 such subs, the Russian navy received 24 Kilo subs, 30 others were exported to China, North Korea and Iran.

Soviet engineers started working on another version of Kilo submarines - 877 Lada - shortly before the collapse of the USSR. The works were suspended in 1997 because of the lack of funding. Russia's first Lada submarine was launched only in 2009. Now Russia is building another Lada submarine and plans to build eight others.

China has built three submarines that bear a striking resemblance to Russian Kilo and Lada subs. It is not really clear how Chinese engineers have managed to rip off the Lada sub, because Russia has not exported any of them yet.
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NATO experts consider Lada subs more dangerous claiming that it is much more difficult to detect it because of the sound-absorbing coating and so-called quiet propellers. Lada is eight times less noisy than Kilo submarines; its endurance and operational range is much more considerable.

As for China's underwater fleet, the nation currently has 56 submarines, including three nuclear-powered ones. The increased interest in diesel submarines can be explained with the fact that Chinese nuclear submarines are considered very noisy and therefore are easily detected by US warships.

Have Chinese engineers observed quality? Most likely, they have not. Foreign military experts said that the new Chinese Yuan is larger than Kilo and Lada, but have common design features. A larger size implies larger tonnage, which in its turn negatively changes military qualities.

China previously had the licensed production of Soviet Romeo submarines, which were dubbed in China as "Type 39." Chinese engineers acknowledged that their developments were based on Russian state-of-the-art defense technologies. However, they vehemently denied the fact of blunt copying claiming that that they had considerably improved them.

It is an open secret that China has copied quite a number of Russian weapons. The list begins with Soviet I-15 and I-16 fighter jets, not to mention the legendary Kalashnikov rifle.

The list continues with D-30 howitzer, BMP-1 armored vehicle, BMP-3, Malyutka anti-tank complex, An-12 military cargo plane, Strela-2 shoulder-fired missile complex, S-300 missile system, Msta-S howitzer, Smerch volley-fire system and other weaponry. The last rip-off report was referred to Su-33 deck-based fighter jet.

It may seem strange that Russia has not set forth any claims to China yet. However, China is Russia's long-time partner in the field of arms trade and Russia is not willing to ruin relations with China. Does Russia overestimate the importance of defense cooperation with the Asian giant? China usually makes small one-time purchases that do not bring much profit to Russia. Moreover, the purchases are made to simply copy the original. For example, the Chinese bought one or two radars for fighter jets from Russia only to launch their serial production several years later.

"China is acting like a superpower, whose military power can be noticed both at sea and in the air. To accomplish the goal, China has been copying other weapons, presumably of the Russian origin, to catch up with its primary competitor - the United States. It is not ruled out that China will eventually pursue its goal. Russia did the same during the 1930s and so did the Japanese, who currently top the pedestal of the technological progress. As a result, Chinese submarines will be patrolling US coastlines, like Soviet vessels used to do it," Konstantin Sivkov, vice president of the Academy for Geopolitical Problems told Pravda.Ru.

The fact that China has become very quick in copying Russian arms and launching them in serial production shows that the nation has reached the modern industrial level. The problem is about the quality. Chinese weapons have been reputed in the world as cheap and disposable. However, the Asian giant may eventually solve this problem too some day. In this case, China will easily conquer world markets of arms

Pathetic article with no substance or journalistic quality. Only purpose is to flame.

And secondly, the world arms market cannot be conquered by cheap rip offs. The major spenders in the defence market dont go for cheap crap. So if China manages to sell to them, it means there is quality in the product.

Seriously, i think this thread should be locked. Such pathetic articles never pave way for any fruitful discussions. Just another avenue to spew hate.
 
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China to conquer world arms market with poor quality rip-offs - English pravda.ru

US experts believe that China has copied Russian weapons again. This time it goes about submarines. US analysts say that the new Yuan class (type 41 A, B, C) diesel-electric submarines are rips-off of Russian Kilo and Lada projects.

China purchased several Kilo project submarines from Russia at the end of the 1990s. Back in those years, the subs were considered Russia's most modern non-nuclear submarines as NATO specialists said. Kilo submarines are capable of covering distances of up to 700 kilometers at the speed of 5 km/h in a noiseless mode, without the risk of being detected by enemies. US experts acknowledged that Kilo submarines equipped with SS-N-27 cruise submarines were very dangerous for American aircraft carriers. The cheap price of the deal was the main factor that attracted China: Russia was selling the subs for $200 million each, whereas the cost of Western analogues began from $400 million.

First kilo submarines entered the Soviet navy at the end of the 1980s. Russia built 54 such subs, the Russian navy received 24 Kilo subs, 30 others were exported to China, North Korea and Iran.

Soviet engineers started working on another version of Kilo submarines - 877 Lada - shortly before the collapse of the USSR. The works were suspended in 1997 because of the lack of funding. Russia's first Lada submarine was launched only in 2009. Now Russia is building another Lada submarine and plans to build eight others.

China has built three submarines that bear a striking resemblance to Russian Kilo and Lada subs. It is not really clear how Chinese engineers have managed to rip off the Lada sub, because Russia has not exported any of them yet.
0Share

NATO experts consider Lada subs more dangerous claiming that it is much more difficult to detect it because of the sound-absorbing coating and so-called quiet propellers. Lada is eight times less noisy than Kilo submarines; its endurance and operational range is much more considerable.

As for China's underwater fleet, the nation currently has 56 submarines, including three nuclear-powered ones. The increased interest in diesel submarines can be explained with the fact that Chinese nuclear submarines are considered very noisy and therefore are easily detected by US warships.

Have Chinese engineers observed quality? Most likely, they have not. Foreign military experts said that the new Chinese Yuan is larger than Kilo and Lada, but have common design features. A larger size implies larger tonnage, which in its turn negatively changes military qualities.

China previously had the licensed production of Soviet Romeo submarines, which were dubbed in China as "Type 39." Chinese engineers acknowledged that their developments were based on Russian state-of-the-art defense technologies. However, they vehemently denied the fact of blunt copying claiming that that they had considerably improved them.

It is an open secret that China has copied quite a number of Russian weapons. The list begins with Soviet I-15 and I-16 fighter jets, not to mention the legendary Kalashnikov rifle.

The list continues with D-30 howitzer, BMP-1 armored vehicle, BMP-3, Malyutka anti-tank complex, An-12 military cargo plane, Strela-2 shoulder-fired missile complex, S-300 missile system, Msta-S howitzer, Smerch volley-fire system and other weaponry. The last rip-off report was referred to Su-33 deck-based fighter jet.

It may seem strange that Russia has not set forth any claims to China yet. However, China is Russia's long-time partner in the field of arms trade and Russia is not willing to ruin relations with China. Does Russia overestimate the importance of defense cooperation with the Asian giant? China usually makes small one-time purchases that do not bring much profit to Russia. Moreover, the purchases are made to simply copy the original. For example, the Chinese bought one or two radars for fighter jets from Russia only to launch their serial production several years later.

"China is acting like a superpower, whose military power can be noticed both at sea and in the air. To accomplish the goal, China has been copying other weapons, presumably of the Russian origin, to catch up with its primary competitor - the United States. It is not ruled out that China will eventually pursue its goal. Russia did the same during the 1930s and so did the Japanese, who currently top the pedestal of the technological progress. As a result, Chinese submarines will be patrolling US coastlines, like Soviet vessels used to do it," Konstantin Sivkov, vice president of the Academy for Geopolitical Problems told Pravda.Ru.

The fact that China has become very quick in copying Russian arms and launching them in serial production shows that the nation has reached the modern industrial level. The problem is about the quality. Chinese weapons have been reputed in the world as cheap and disposable. However, the Asian giant may eventually solve this problem too some day. In this case, China will easily conquer world markets of arms

A few respond below :

here is standard prodedures how russians react to China-made weapons:

1. "chinese can not work out it.....it is out of CHinese capacity to work it out .....Chinese are in vain!.....take it easy"

2." they have worked it out?...but nobody will buy such copied and low quality craps..."

3."somebody has bought it? bull$****. they buy it just because of its low quality .....low quality brings price down ....damn guy.....sue the SOB for their piracy.....guy, have our IPRs been Issued ?....."

4." if China's 5G bird were to fly before Russia's, I would hang myself in the front of the Kremlin..."

hehe, leading ones' sour grapes or fear is the best encouragement to a latecomer. in fact I am very happy to hear that . it is a enjoyment to hear's Russia's complaint.

At least, Russia doesn't express such sour grapes or fear to guys that can threaten its position such as Ixdxa or other countries.


one day when Yxxkxxs also express such sour grapes or fears to CHina, I will be more happy!

You are absolutely correct . From Indian point of view we should all be happy with pakistanis getting more and more JF17. Russians are trying to control market share that will be grabbed by Chinese copies. They want to keep their market share with them. Its pure business nothing else.

The V-2 rocket designs plus stolen German scientists created both rocket/space programs for the US and Russia. The jet fighters are virtually the same as well. You only need to look at the Sabres and the early-gen Migs to tell that the Americans and Russians copied that German jet fighter.
 
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in the near future china will be the arms provider for latin america, with russian quality products but at a much lower price, that is until Brazil decides to become an arms manufacturer on a larger scale....:partay:
 
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Chinese excel where Russians fail and that is electronics.
The Russian are still offering sukhoi with vacuum tubes..go figure!

China is not only ripping off, it is also investing tons of its own R/D to enhance the product. In Germany exist many tuning and modding industry which take your average off the street Mercedes, porche or any other car for matter and turn it into a super duper performance machine often selling at 2-3 times of sticker price. China is applying the same logic.

The Russian couldn't even configure their own SA-2 SAM to target the american U2 spy planes which frustrated Chinese to the extent that Russian experts along with their manuals for SA-2 were thrown out.
 
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