China to build Mecca monorail

[prodevelopment]

well you are right if the train had to go for a longer distance. During Hajj you have to visit Haram, Mina, Arafat, Muzdalifa, Jamarat and back to Haram that all together is around 8-10 kilometers of journey. For only 8-10 kilometers you do not require high speed rails. You have to have other forms of rails. I guess this monorail will have 4-5 stops only and then back to Makkah Meaning from one end to another you can reach within 10 minutes time. This is my guess only but the real aim of this rail is to off load from burden from the roads and this area where we perform Hajj is just 8-10 kilometer thus does not require longer router.

Ah, I'm sorry. I guess I took some wrong assumptions when I read this line:

It is sorrounded by the mountains and it is not easy to dig in mountains to make infrastructure for the metro. They have lots of roads from the mountains but keeping the traffic in mind their first requirement is roads. Trust me the roads system in Makkah is not less than a WONDERS of the world and building infrastructure for metro will sure have more problems. They have this monorail project for now and if they felt necassary they might start another project for metro in future

I guess a Monorail COULD work now that I think about it, if the distances are really small (like 8-10 Km with 4-5 stops, which a Monorail can cover in under 15 mins including turnaround time).

 

[prodevelopment]

I'm talking about all the "Monorail" systems.

See the link, i don't speak without point

System Loading Capacity : Hitachi-Rail.com

The above link is from one of the best in the world.

Also in India we have both the Monorail as well as Metro so i know about them.

I am not questioning your knowledge dude. I just wanted to see the source.

Yes, you might 'know about them', but there is a 99.5% probability that I might know a little bit more about railway systems than you do. I have railway experience in 17-18 countries across 3 continents. I am also currently working on a train system in Saudi Arabia (North - South Railway).

So take a chill pill and relax


P.S.:

In your calculations, you have confused passenger-hours with passenger-trips.
If an average passenger trip takes only 15 mins, then no of passengers carried would increase 4 times.

 

[Long live Pakistan frienC]

欢迎各位来哦 ......Hello everybody I first met handsome Xiaoping Scicence

 

[Justin Joseph]

My dear friend i did not say Saudi's can't afford to make Metro. They can but all i was saying is if one ordinary metro rail track is laid for say 1.2 billion dollars that will cost at least 4-5 billion dollars in Saudi Arabia because of the moutains in Makkah. Usually Metro is laid in flat areas and not moutainous ranges. It will require years to be completed and lots of money. Monorail can be built up in 2-3 years time also but if they go for Metro they will take a decade or so to be fully functional. There are lots of hurdles considering the area in mind if they go for Metro rail. They do not even have the railway tracks in these areas and you are talking about metro? Is it not easy to make railway tracks instead in such a mountanious area?

And also when Metro project is initiated the land is thoroughly inspected if it is suitable for the metro project or not and i am sure it will create lots of hurdles if they opt for metro. Let the monorail project go smoothly and we will see if Saudis ever opt to go for Metro in future?

And not to forget the sacred mountains in Makkah that are part of the Islamic history. They cannot dig those mountains to pave the way for Metro

Dear brother Zaki,

For your kind information Monorail also runs on the tracks on high poles. The only difference is that for the Monorail is system based on a single rail and Metro has many.

You have to make strong pillars for metro and light pillars for Metro.

Monorail does not run on roads. If they can have pillars for monorail so they can also have for Metro.

And when you say that the distance is 10-12 kms only then why repeat the things like mountain etc.

thanks

 

[Hyde]

Dear brother Zaki,

For your kind information Monorail also runs on the tracks on high poles. The only difference is that for the Monorail is system based on a single rail and Metro has many.

You have to make strong pillars for metro and light pillars for Metro.

Monorail does not run on roads. If they can have pillars for monorail so they can also have for Metro.

And when you say that the distance is 10-12 kms only then why repeat the things like mountain etc.

thanks

baaz log Ad-Dharam hotay hain read the posts of prodevelopment above. I have made my points clear and he did understand my concerns and agreed upon. It is possible you know little more than me about Metro but i have been using Metro rail since past 10 years now. I may know less than you but i do know what basic infrastructure is required to make it possible and you have to visit the site to see yourself if Metro or Monorail is suitable for both short and long term. Pictures/Videos are not enough for these purposes

Monorail is the best option for Makkah for now. They do not require high speed or Metro railways for now. The distance is extremely short and monororail is the best option forn now. Also you probably do not know when you visit Makkah for Hajj purposes they retain your passports until you are on your way back to your respective country. There are lots of security checks and the officials prefers to use ROADS for security purposes. There are lots of technicalities involved in this issue and you have to keep these things in mind

 

[Justin Joseph]

I am not questioning your knowledge dude. I just wanted to see the source.

Yes, you might 'know about them', but there is a 99.5% probability that I might know a little bit more about railway systems than you do. I have railway experience in 17-18 countries across 3 continents. I am also currently working on a train system in Saudi Arabia (North - South Railway).

So take a chill pill and relax


P.S.:

In your calculations, you have confused passenger-hours with passenger-trips.
If an average passenger trip takes only 15 mins, then no of passengers carried would increase 4 times.

what source????

you may be having the experience of working in all the 180 counties in every continents, but that's not the point of discussion.

Here, we are discussing Monorail.

Monorail is for LRT.

BTW, as a rail expert do u wanna say a Monorail can take 500,000 passenger in 6-8 hours?????

Also, in future when the demand will increase can it take care of it.

 

[Justin Joseph]

baaz log Ad-Dharam hotay hain read the posts of prodevelopment above. I have made my points clear and he did understand my concerns and agreed upon. It is possible you know little more than me about Metro but i have been using Metro rail since past 10 years now. I may know less than you but i do know what basic infrastructure is required to make it possible and you have to visit the site to see yourself if Metro or Monorail is suitable for both short and long term. Pictures/Videos are not enough for these purposes

Monorail is the best option for Makkah for now. They do not require high speed or Metro railways for now. The distance is extremely short and monororail is the best option forn now. Also you probably do not know when you visit Makkah for Hajj purposes they retain your passports until you are on your way back to your respective country. There are lots of security checks and the officials prefers to use ROADS for security purposes. There are lots of technicalities involved in this issue and you have to keep these things in mind

why are u talking off topic like passport issues etc., try to understand my point the issue here is not of speed or distance but of passenger carrying capacity.

for example the distance can be 1 kms but you can't take half million people in a bicycle within 6-8 hours.

we are talking about passenger carrying capacity.

 

[prodevelopment]

what source????

Source for what? I have not quoted any facts. All I have done is to take some educated assumptions about the travel time. If you want, I can defend those assumptions.

Edit: Now i understand what you meant. I wanted to see the source from where you got data for your calculations. That's all.

you may be having the experience of working in all the 180 counties in every continents, but that's not the point of discussion.

Here, we are discussing Monorail.

Monorail is for LRT.

BTW, as a rail expert do u wanna say a Monorail can take 500,000 passenger in 6-8 hours?????

Also, in future when the demand will increase can it take care of it.

I cannot definitely say that Monorail can take 500,000 passenger in 6-8 hours. However, according to YOUR assumptions, it certainly can.

Also, I need to have a traffic potential survey conducted before I can comment on any future demands

 

[Hyde]

why are u talking off topic like passport issues etc., try to understand my point the issue here is not of speed or distance but of passenger carrying capacity.

for example the distance can be 1 kms but you can't take half million people in a bicycle within 6-8 hours.

we are talking about passenger carrying capacity.

I just want to say if the Saudi officials has said 500,000 passengers will be carried by these monorails and Chinese companies are already working on this project. Expect this news to be true

We are humans we can do anything. If there is not any such project in the world consider it world's best monorail

Simple

Both Saudis and Chinese are money + technology rich they can make a newer design to accomodate 500,000. Use brain and you get anything you want

 

[Justin Joseph]

Source for what? I have not quoted any facts. All I have done is to take some educated assumptions about the travel time. If you want, I can defend those assumptions.

Edit: Now i understand what you meant. I wanted to see the source from where you got data for your calculations. That's all.



I cannot definitely say that Monorail can take 500,000 passenger in 6-8 hours. However, according to YOUR assumptions, it certainly can.

Also, I need to have a traffic potential survey conducted before I can comment on any future demands

To
The decades of experience on railway sir,

can u tell us:

1. what is the passenger carrying capacity of Monorail train per trip??

2. How many passengers can travel in a hour using Monorail??

3. Is it possible for 500,000 people to travel using monorail within 6-8 hours??? If yes how??

waiting for detailed reply, as till now u have not shown your expertise only excessively used the smiles like a kid.

thanks

 

[Justin Joseph]

I just want to say if the Saudi officials has said 500,000 passengers will be carried by these monorails and Chinese companies are already working on this project. Expect this news to be true

We are humans we can do anything. If there is not any such project in the world consider it world's best monorail

Simple

Both Saudis and Chinese are money + technology rich they can make a newer design to accomodate 500,000. Use brain and you get anything you want

so in other words u wanna say if u have money u can transport half a million people on a bicycle??

also do u wanna suggest that Saudis are giving money to china to build and test bigger "Monorail" never heard before and experiment.

 

[Hyde]

so in other words u wanna say if u have money u can transport half a million people on a bicycle??

also do u wanna suggest that Saudis are giving money to china to build and test bigger "Monorail" never heard before and experiment.

Some peoples are funny.................. chalo ab shabash bag band karo aur school jao

Never test the human brain

 

[prodevelopment]

To
The decades of experience on railway sir,

can u tell us:

1. what is the passenger carrying capacity of Monorail train per trip??

I'm glad you asked. The answer is, it depends from manufacturer to manufacturer. Although traditionally, Monorail has been an LRT. However, as per the link that you posted yourself, technology is improving and so is the passenger carrying capacity.

2. How many passengers can travel in a hour using Monorail??

The answer is again, it depends. It depends on the average trip length of a passenger. If the average trip length is very large, then total number of passenger demand that can be catered to will reduce.

However, as in this case, averaged trip distance ~ 8 to 10 Kms.
Even with average speed of 60-80 kmph, and 4-5 total stops, it should not take more than 12-15 mins for an average passenger's journey.

So, effectively, the number of passengers that can travel in a monorail per hour would be:
(Train's passenger carrying capacity) * (60 mins/ Average trip time in mins)

3. Is it possible for 500,000 people to travel using monorail within 6-8 hours??? If yes how??

As per your calculations:

150 X 8 = 1200 passenger per train, the train runs after 3 minutes of gap.

Then 1 hour (60 mins.) / 3 minutes = 20 trains per hour

1200 passengers X 20 trains per hour = 24,000 passenger in a hour

It should ideally be passenger-hours and not passengers in an hour. I hope you get my point.

24,000 X 8 hours = 24000 = 1,92,000 passengers that too the maximum capacity.

That's 1,92,000 passenger hours at maximum capacity.

If average passenger trip time is 15 mins, then total passengers carried = 1,92,000 * (60/15) = 7,68,000.

It is of course naive to assume 100% occupancy throughout those 8 hours. So lets assume on an average 75% occupancy.

That means total passengers carried = 7,68,000 * 75% = 576,000


Now here's the fun part. You live in India right? And from your posts, I gather that you have travelled in our metros and local trains.

How much do you think is their specified capacity? How many people actually travel on a train? There's always a margin. For 'Jugadu' people like us south asians, that margin can almost be 100%. For example, a blue line bus in delhi has a specified capacity of 60-70 passengers at max. I hope you get my point.***

So lets assume that excess margin to be only 50%.

then Total Passengers Carried = 576,000 * (1 + 50%) = 864,000 in 8 hours.

Now this is assuming that there is only one monorail line. In case if double/triple lining, this capacity can correspondingly, double or triple.

*** I am assuming that the muslims who go on pilgrimage are just like us .

excessively used the smiles like a kid.

Dil to bachha hai ji

 

[Hyde]

well said prodevelopment very well explained

Now allow me to add something into this. Finally i have found a link that talks about this project in more details. Like i said before if human wants anything they can make it. Simple as that........ use your brain and you get the final product. Justin was calcuating these passengers if all travelled in one track. The news i will share in the next post says

Each of the five lines of the monorail project will have an hourly capacity to carry 60,000 to 80,000 passengers between Mina, Arafat and Muzdalifah, and at a later stage Mina and Makkah.

I hope that clears your objections - i will share full article in my next post

 

[Hyde]

This article was published on 20th March 2010.

======================

Monorail in Makkah to be ready by next year​

Construction of the monorail that links the holy sites in Makkah is progressing at a rapid pace. (AN photo by Ahmad Hashad)

By BADEA ABU AL-NAJA | ARAB NEWS

Published: Mar 20, 2010 23:39 Updated: Mar 20, 2010 23:39

MAKKAH: The Makkah Monorail project is expected to become fully operational before the commencement of Haj next year, while 35 percent of the project will be ready for pilgrims by the end of the present year.

Four international consultancy firms began feasibility studies to undertake the SR6.65 billion project in early 2009.

The first part of the project that will be completed will be the line that begins from the southeast of Arafat (where most domestic and Gulf pilgrims converge) to Muzdalifah.

The rail network will initially link the holy sites to the Haramain Railway and other railway networks, and eventually to the Gulf Railway. It is expected to solve the traffic difficulties pilgrims face during the annual Haj.

Each of the five lines of the monorail project will have an hourly capacity to carry 60,000 to 80,000 passengers between Mina, Arafat and Muzdalifah, and at a later stage Mina and Makkah.

The project has been launched with the construction of the southern line because most Saudi and Gulf pilgrims camp in that area of Mina. These pilgrims need 35,000 vehicles for transportation between the holy sites.

On completion, pilgrims will have to walk no more than 300 meters to reach one of the three monorail boarding stations in Arafat. Muzdalifah will also have three stations, while the stations in Mina will be close to its entry points, its center and the fourth floor of the Jamrat Bridge.

The stations will be elevated and pilgrims will have access to escalators and staircases to reach them.

All trains will have 12 large compartments, each of which will be 23 meters long and three meters wide.

Each compartment will have five two-meter wide doors on each side and a capacity to carry 250 to 300 passengers.

The second line to be constructed will be the central line linking Arafat and Mina.