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China, the other side

Hutchroy

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China, the other side - Dr Farrukh Saleem

China, the other side

Nearly 15 percent of China’s population is now over 60 years old. China now has 119 million who are over 65 and of the 119 million around 33 million are disabled or partly disabled. By 2014, three years from now, China will be the only country on the face of the planet with 200 million elderly people. By 2050, because of low fertility and high life expectancy, three out of ten Chinese will be 60 or older. China is aging and aging fast-that means a large dependent, economically non-productive population. That’s bad news for future economic growth.

According to the Financial Times, China’s real debt-to-GDP ratio may actually be as high as 160 percent; as bad as Greece and far worse than Portugal, Italy or Ireland (Pakistan’s debt-to-GDP hovers around 65 percent). To be certain, China’s economic model revolves solely around growth not profit. And Chinese growth has been – and continues to be – fuelled by cheap debt not corporate profit.

State owned enterprises have been borrowing like crazy to grow. Profit has never been the primary driver. Local governments have been borrowing like crazy to build, build and build. Feasibility has never been the primary driver. Growth has been the only thing that ever mattered.

State owned enterprises are now heavily indebted. Local governments have built huge ‘ghost towns’ with some 64 million empty houses and thick, vacant ‘forests of skyscrapers’. Dozens of complete cities with no one living in them.

In June, Beijing officially admitted that “local governments had piled up 10.7 trillion yuan ($1.6 trillion)” worth of debt. That figure by itself is 25 percent of China’s GDP. Moody’s, the global credit rating agency, stated that the “debt burden held by local governments could be 3.5 trillion yuan” larger than Beijing’s official auditors had estimated. Credit Suisse, the Swiss financial services giant, says that “loan losses at Chinese banks may climb to levels equivalent to 60 percent of their equity capital as real-estate companies and local governments fail to repay debts.”

According to the Ministry of Finance of the Republic of China, China this year will be spending $95 billion on internal security and $91 billion on the Peoples Liberation Army (PLA). That is so because in 2010 there were 180,000 ‘mass incidents’ including strikes, demonstrations and protests (a ‘mass incident’ in China is defined as “at least 15 participants”).

The top five reasons behind 180,000 mass incidents were: “(1) Laid-off workers demanding jobs. (2) Ethnic minorities battling police. (3) Overworked textile workers organising strikes. (4) Farmers staging protests to fight dam projects. (5) Retirees demanding pension payments.”

Historically, China’s five-year plans have had just one focus – economy and not much else. The 12th Five-Year Blueprint emphasises “tighter control over the populace”. The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) also plans to put together a nationwide “yingji xitong” or a rapid response police force to handle mass incidents and undertake ‘social management’ and ‘population surveillance’.

China experts believe that “there is a lack of unifying movements such as Poland’s Solidarity” and thus “a lot of small, localised expressions of discontent.” Happiness, they say, is the china shop; love is the bull.

The writer is a columnist based in Islamabad. Email : farrukh15@hotmail.com
 
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Surprising ! Coming from a Pakistani writer.

China’s real debt-to-GDP ratio may actually be as high as 160 percent; as bad as Greece and far worse than Portugal, Italy or Ireland

On other thread in Chinese defence section; some Chinese are taking cheap shots on Indian debt to gdp ratio ! What is with the Chinese ? Do they never see the mirror ?
 
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Apparently, China has been on "the verge of collapse", ever since the Tiananmen incident of 1989.

Every year, for the past 20 years, we have been on the "verge of collapse". :lol:

When people stop predicting that China will collapse, that's when I'll be the most worried. Because that might lead the Chinese leadership into complacency.

I am very glad to hear all these predictions, because they put extra pressure on our leaders, to work hard for the stability and prosperity of China.
 
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Surprising ! Coming from a Pakistani writer.

China’s real debt-to-GDP ratio may actually be as high as 160 percent; as bad as Greece and far worse than Portugal, Italy or Ireland

On other thread in Chinese defence section; some Chinese are taking cheap shots on Indian debt to gdp ratio ! What is with the Chinese ? Do they never see the mirror ?

This guy is just another fanatical pro-America blog writer, it doesn't really matter what is his nationality.

He appears to be anti-Pakistan as well.

Pakistan
 
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This guy is just another fanatical pro-America blog writer, it doesn't really matter what is his nationality.

He appears to be anti-Pakistan as well.

Pakistan


May be the author is pro US. But can you refute this :

"China’s real debt-to-GDP ratio may actually be as high as 160 percent; as bad as Greece and far worse than Portugal, Italy or Ireland"
 
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May be the author is pro US. But can you refute this :

"China’s real debt-to-GDP ratio may actually be as high as 160 percent; as bad as Greece and far worse than Portugal, Italy or Ireland"

Is this the real figure or something pull out of his head?
 
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May be the author is pro US. But can you refute this :

"China’s real debt-to-GDP ratio may actually be as high as 160 percent; as bad as Greece and far worse than Portugal, Italy or Ireland"

It MAY be, based on speculation.

Obviously they don't have a hold of the actual books. And according to official figures, we have a relatively low debt-to-GDP ratio, compared to other countries.
 
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" On paper, China’s debt to GDP ratio is under 20 percent, making Beijing a paragon of fiscal virtue compared with profligate Western governments. However, if we factor in various government obligations that are typically counted as public debt, the picture doesn’t look pretty for China. Once local government debts, costs of re-capitalizing state-owned banks, bonds issued by state-owned banks, and railway bonds are included, China’s total debt amounts to 70 to 80 percent of GDP, roughly the level of public debt in the United States and the United Kingdom".

China

It appears from this article, China's debt to gdp ratio is higher than India's
 
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" On paper, China’s debt to GDP ratio is under 20 percent, making Beijing a paragon of fiscal virtue compared with profligate Western governments. However, if we factor in various government obligations that are typically counted as public debt, the picture doesn’t look pretty for China. Once local government debts, costs of re-capitalizing state-owned banks, bonds issued by state-owned banks, and railway bonds are included, China’s total debt amounts to 70 to 80 percent of GDP, roughly the level of public debt in the United States and the United Kingdom".

China

It appears from this article, China's debt to gdp ratio is higher than India's

That is all just speculation.

Our official debt-to-GDP ratio is 17.5%, one of the lowest in the world.

And in any case, we have 3 trillion in currency reserves. So there is no scenario in which we would be unable to pay back our debts.
 
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That’s the problem of non-transparent societies. Regardless of this claim going either way _ I would be surprised to hear a Chinese disagree( if they want to be honest!) that speculation, insider information or any such findings of overblown or under reported numbers- are there because of lack of transparency...

at some point you have to go- are these guys for real or they just hustling us...
 
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" On paper, China’s debt to GDP ratio is under 20 percent, making Beijing a paragon of fiscal virtue compared with profligate Western governments. However, if we factor in various government obligations that are typically counted as public debt, the picture doesn’t look pretty for China. Once local government debts, costs of re-capitalizing state-owned banks, bonds issued by state-owned banks, and railway bonds are included, China’s total debt amounts to 70 to 80 percent of GDP, roughly the level of public debt in the United States and the United Kingdom".

China

It appears from this article, China's debt to gdp ratio is higher than India's

Something comes from Pei Minxin is usual, because he has to write something bad about China in order to please his white master.
 
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Something comes from Pei Minxin is usual, because he has to write something bad about China in order to please his white master.

I swear- the chinese have taken over the " racial paranoia" throne from others... everything is white this and that and then they get shocked , shocked I say- when they are designated as being very racist. its white, its brown, its black.. to a chinese it seems the color of ones skin determines the content of their character.

Indians disagree with many pakistani writers- but they dont go its " that muslim" or he is beholden to whites...

take a look around many of your women are getting married to whites- how will handle so many mix babies of the " white master"...if you have such racial paranoia?
 
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That is all just speculation.

Our official debt-to-GDP ratio is 17.5%, one of the lowest in the world.

And in any case, we have 3 trillion in currency reserves. So there is no scenario in which we would be unable to pay back our debts.


Are you sure that is your domestic debt ? I think that figure is for external debt. India's external debt is also 17 %. Our domestic debt is 71% though
 
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That’s the problem of non-transparent societies. Regardless of this claim going either way _ I would be surprised to hear a Chinese disagree( if they want to be honest!) that speculation, insider information or any such findings of overblown or under reported numbers- are there because of lack of transparency...

at some point you have to go- are these guys for real or they just hustling us...

you seriously believe a transparent society will have no such problem? if so how come your so called transparent society couldnt stop corruptions in india, dont be so stupid as to believe your government tell you everything they only tell you thing they want you to know and forget everything else.
 
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you seriously believe a transparent society will have no such problem? if so how come your so called transparent society couldnt stop corruptions in india, dont be so stupid as to believe your government tell you everything they only tell you thing they want you to know and forget everything else.

Tranparency doesnt stop corruption. It is law that tries to stop corruption . We have RTI act ( Right to Information). And very soon we will have Lokpal bill. Is there any similar laws in China ?
 
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