China suspected of copycatting Russian naval jet

[Merilion]

There is nothing in the contract that says China can't modify existing airframes the problem lies in producing unauthorized airframes. The J-11 is still based on the SU-27 airframe, it doesn't have to be an exact match but, nevertheless, it is still based on the airframe, this means China could add conards or other changes but it doesn't change the fact that they would still be producing aircraft based on the tot transfer from the SU-27 kits. Also the J-15 is said to be based off of the SU-33 prototype perchased from Ukraine, so the J-15 would be an unauthorized copy of the SU-33, even if you disagree with that statement you can't argue that China is illegaly going over the quota of aircraft based on the original Sukhoi design which includes J-11 and J-15 and no i'm not talking avionics. Let me put it this way if China sold the J-10's tot rights to another country and that country started going over the quota as well as offering the J-10 to other countries would you still have the same attitude?

i'm not supporting china on this regard but just want to clarify it china didn't go over the quota, rather, china stopped importing from sukhoi at 95 kits from the original 200 kits. at first russian didn't know what happened but soon they realized china stopped import because she now produced the kits herself. russia was of course very mad and all it could do was to stop exporting engine and this caused big pain to china. both learnd their lessions and both now moved on.

 

[ptldM3]

i'm not supporting china on this regard but just want to clarify it china didn't go over the quota, rather, china stopped importing from sukhoi at 95 kits from the original 200 kits. at first russian didn't know what happened but soon they realized china stopped import because she now produced the kits herself. russia was of course very mad and all it could do was to stop exporting engine and this caused big pain to china. both learnd their lessions and both now moved on.

Russia transfered tot to China, the factories producing the SU-27's were set up because of Sukhoi's help and under contract they were to produce a set number of fighters; correct me if i'm wrong but the order is still at 95. Also I don't understand what you mean when you say China produces kits her self, when the contract between China and Russia was signed China produced the SU-27/J-11 locally. However, the order was stopped at 95.

 

[Merilion]

Russia transfered tot to China, the factories producing the SU-27's were set up because of Sukhoi's help and under contract they were to produce a set number of fighters; correct me if i'm wrong but the order is still at 95. Also I don't understand what you mean when you say China produces kits her self, when the contract between China and Russia was signed China produced the SU-27/J-11 locally. However, the order was stopped at 95.

the story i heard is china and russia signed the contract for china to produce 200 su27/J-11 under sukhoi licsence. but china stopped at 95 and using the remaining quota for its own J-11A/B. i previosuly thought china supposed to import all 200 kits and assembled them locally but i might be wrong.

 

[SomeGuy]

China was supose to only have produce 95 SU-27/J-11 according to some sources they went over the quota, thus violating the contract and cheating Sukhoi, remember it was Sukhoi that transfer the technology to built the SU-27 without it the Chinese would have no J-11, in other words Sukhoi isn't receiving royalties. This also ties into the J-15, technically the Chinese are not allowed to build anymore aircraft based on the SU-27 airframe, which the J-15 is. China was also supost to import Russian avionics but all they did was reverse engineer and possibly improve Russian ones, thus they broke another claus in the contract.

The original contract was suppose to be for 200 J-11.

However J-11 production was stopped at 96. One of the reasons was that the Su-27SK as it was, no longer met PLAAF requirements.

Thus, Shenyang was still entitled to produce another 100 or so aircraft based upon the Su-27 airframe (up to 8 squadrons).

Currently there are reportedly 2 squadrons of J-11B in service.

1 or 2 squadrons will be needed for the aircraft carrier.

I remember another member saying that J-11B production has now stopped and J-11BS will be produced from now on!

So I think China can stay within the 200 airframe limit as per the original contract.

 

[ptldM3]

The original contract was suppose to be for 200 J-11.

However J-11 production was stopped at 96. One of the reasons was that the Su-27SK as it was, no longer met PLAAF requirements.

Thus, Shenyang was still entitled to produce another 100 or so aircraft based upon the Su-27 airframe (up to 8 squadrons).

Currently there are reportedly 2 squadrons of J-11B in service.

1 or 2 squadrons will be needed for the aircraft carrier.

I remember another member saying that J-11B production has now stopped and J-11BS will be produced from now on!

So I think China can stay within the 200 airframe limit as per the original contract.

I beleive the original contract was for 200 SU-27SK's which some were built to the J-11 standard but if the contract was stopped at 95 or 96 than how does the 200 quota still stand?

 

[aimarraul]

time to move on,i don't think russia will make a big thing out of it as long as we keep the number of J-11 under 200 .not more AL31?it's ok ,we don't have long tern to use russia engine anyway.as for J-15,none of their business.
You can't always get what you want even thought there is a binding contract
38 IL76 are suppose to be delivered in 2008,still they are not here

 

[SomeGuy]

I beleive the original contract was for 200 SU-27SK's which some were built to the J-11 standard but if the contract was stopped at 95 or 96 than how does the 200 quota still stand?

I'm not too sure about the details - I'm hoping someone can enlighten me.

It may be a case where the contract itself was not cancelled but only the production from kits stopping.

Jian-11 (J-11, Flanker) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

SAC hinted as early as 2000 that not all 200 J-11s would be built. In November 2004, Russian media reported that the J-11 production had stopped after about 100 examples were built. According to the report, the Chinese side had requested Sukhoi Company to stop deliveries of the assembly kits.

Shenyang J-11 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, in 2004, Russian media reported that Shenyang co-production of the basic J-11 was stopped after around 100 examples were built. The PLAAF later revealed a mock-up of an upgraded multirole version of the J-11 in mid-2002. It was equipped with Chinese anti-ship and PL-12 air-to-air missiles presumably for the role of a maritime strike aircraft. The reason which lead to the sudden stop in the production line of the J-11 was the obsolete avionics and radar, which were structured for aerial missions. This was an issue in which the PLAAF evaluated after the first 100 J-11 were built, in that it lacked any true precision-strike capabilities, only being able to deliver unguided freefall bombs. With a contract of an initial 200 J-11 allowed to be produced in Shenyang under the Chinese-Russian contract made in the 90's, the PLAAF decided to modernize the J-11 with domestic radar, avionic suites, manufacture methods and material upgrades to extend the life of the aircraft in service.

 

[Nahraf]

I also have the view as Wikipedia that Chinese stopped the production line of the J-11A because Russia was supplying them with obsolete avionics and radars. Russia had superior avionics and radars but choose not to sell them to Chinese. China developed their own avionics and radar which were far superior to Russian versions being sold to them.

 

[ptldM3]

I'm not too sure about the details - I'm hoping someone can enlighten me.

It may be a case where the contract itself was not cancelled but only the production from kits stopping.

It was cancelled, some sources say the Chinese cancelled the orders and others say Russia cancelled the orders after they found out about the J-11's.

its nothing new for china people they have leaser I.Q ,so they can't developed there own new jet,so they copy or steal other country tech

Lets not go down that path.

 

[JAMESHAWK85]

thief of baghdad

now in 21 century it should be

thief of china

 

[SomeGuy]

It was cancelled, some sources say the Chinese cancelled the orders and others say Russia cancelled the orders after they found out about the J-11's.

This is what a respected member on sinodefence had to say regarding the contract:

On page 69 of the January 2010 edition of Kanwa, it had a section of J-11A assembly.

So, in this article, he spoke with people inside the Russian military industry. They expressed that the 1996 agreement is continuing and did not get abolished. The original production target was 200, but clearly no longer assembles new su-27sk. But after first 105 were assembled, they are still following the original agreement to deliver parts every year. They said that they know China is possibly using it to assemble J-11B. So, they believe if this continues, they will no longer honour their agreement and deliver the parts.

And since I don't have access to that article, I'm going to have to take his word for it.

 

[Nahraf]

thief of baghdad

now in 21 century it should be

thief of china

Nobody needs to reinvent the wheel. Even reputable companies steal and adopt technologies from their competitors. IBM, Microsoft, Motorola, Nokia, Research in Motion, etc have also faced copyright and patent violations. Different countries and companies want to be on cutting edge and would copy technology. It has been done since somebody invented bow and arrow and rest of the world adopted it. It is this "co-operative development" that keep the world technology progressing.

 

[cloneman]

I'm not the one that made the mistake, you are. China cound have perchased the T-10K from any country that still doesn't make it any less Russian. To sum it up Ukraine has nothing to do with Sukhoi, it's a Russian company, thus it doesn't matter if you purchase a Sukhoi from Russian or abroad the intellectual properties still belong to Russia. Let me make it more clear:



Is China Stealing Russia's Su-33? - Defense News

For an axample, F-16's were produced in Europe but they were still Lockheed Martin's property, in other words no one can produce without Lockheed permission.




Iran paper? It was a Russian link, there is literally dozens of links that all say the same thing.



Wrong again, the Chinese wanted the avionics from the SU-35BM but Russia would only sell the whole aircraft.

Dear Russian friend,personally I highly appriciate Russia's help on our aircraft industry,the help was started as soon as the PRC was established.But on the T10K3 issure,I still insist that we already paid to Ukrain.And if Russia really wants to solve the problem,the three parts,China,Russia and Ukrain should sit together and disscus it.You know,Ukrain maybe other countries has a lot of the formal USSR properties,and we can't pay twice for the same thing.

 

[cloneman]

Originally Posted by JAMESHAWK85
its nothing new for china people they have leaser I.Q ,so they can't developed there own new jet,so they copy or steal other country tech
mmm,the cold truth is both the French and Indian have much less IQ than the Chinese.Sorry for dissruppting you,but it's the fact.It's more likelly because of the Indians having the average IQ of 82 that they can't contibute anything to the world.
World IQ 2006
China 105
Franc 98
shinning India 82
sorce IQ and Global Inequality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JAMESHAWK85]

Originally Posted by JAMESHAWK85
its nothing new for china people they have leaser I.Q ,so they can't developed there own new jet,so they copy or steal other country tech
mmm,the cold truth is both the French and Indian have much less IQ than the Chinese.Sorry for dissruppting you,but it's the fact.It's more likelly because of the Indians having the average IQ of 82 that they can't contibute anything to the world.
World IQ 2006
China 105
Franc 98
shinning India 82
sorce IQ and Global Inequality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this IQ on bases of steal tech of other country
world know china achivement
this prove u higher I Q IN Stealing tech of other rather diccover ur own tech by ur own mind