China Squashes Attempted Tunisia-Style Revolt the JASMINE REVOLUTION

[Chinese-Dragon]

I think democracy will not work in developing countries. Consider the track record of democratic government in poor and developing country (look at sub saharan Africa and India) then consider the country which had made a successful and prosperous transition from authoritarian government to democracy (Taiwan, SK, Japan, Singapore). All the successful country transitioned their governments after they near a developed country's level of income.

Japan's transition to democracy was far far far after it became rich. Singapore still has not transitioned.

Exactly right.

Hong Kong has never been a democracy either.

Which shows that Western-style democracy is not necessary, to have a high-level of development.

 

[CardSharp]

Japan's transition to democracy was far far far after it became rich. Singapore still has not transitioned. Taiwan has CIA democracy, and South Korea's democracy doesn't matter because they can't even control their own military, if the US army ordered South Korean army to shoot all South Koreans they legally must obey, since the loyalty of SK forces is to USA command alone.

Whatever most of them are still considered more successful democracies than countries in the developing world. This is a list of what westerners consider a successful(full) democracy. Notice what's missing..... There are no countries from the developing world.


The lowest income countries are still around the 10000 range.

1 Norway 9.80 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
2 Iceland 9.65 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
3 Denmark 9.52 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
4 Sweden 9.50 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
5 New Zealand 9.26 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism, semi-direct democracy
6 Australia 9.22 Full democracy Federalism, constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
7 Finland 9.19 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism, semi-direct democracy on a local but not national level
8 Switzerland 9.09 Full democracy Federalism, Parliamentary republic, semi-direct democracy, bicameralism
9 Canada 9.08 Full democracy Federalism, constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism, semi-direct democracy
10 Netherlands 8.99 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy, parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
11 Luxembourg 8.88 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
12 Ireland 8.79 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
13 Austria 8.49 Full democracy Federalism, parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
14 Germany 8.38 Full democracy Federalism, parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
15 Malta 8.28 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, unicameralism
16 Czech Republic 8.19 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
17 United States 8.18 Full democracy Federalism, Constitutional republic, presidential system, bicameralism
18 Spain 8.16 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
19 United Kingdom 8.16 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
20 South Korea 8.11 Full democracy Presidential system, unicameralism
21 Uruguay 8.10 Full democracy Presidential system, bicameralism
22 Japan 8.08 Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
23 Belgium 8.05 Full democracy Federalism, Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism
24 Mauritius 8.04 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy
24 Costa Rica 8.04 Full democracy Presidential system
26 Portugal 8.02 Full democracy Parliamentary republic and parliamentary democracy

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Whatever most of them are still considered more successful democracies than countries in the developing world. This is a list of what westerners consider a successful(full) democracy. Notice what's missing..... There are no countries from the developing world.

Good Observation!

But i wonder why Taiwan is an outlier here.

 

[gambit]

Japan's transition to democracy was far far far after it became rich. Singapore still has not transitioned. Taiwan has CIA democracy, and South Korea's democracy doesn't matter because they can't even control their own military, if the US army ordered South Korean army to shoot all South Koreans they legally must obey, since the loyalty of SK forces is to USA command alone.

Source for that? Nevermind, it was a rhetorical question since we know you are quite weak in this area.

 

[below_freezing]

Source for that? Nevermind, it was a rhetorical question since we know you are quite weak in this area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Command_(Korea)

In the confusion of the early days of the Korean War, Seoul placed its armed forces under the command of General Douglas MacArthur as United Nations (UN) commander.[citation needed] This arrangement continued after the armistice. For some twenty-five years, the United Nations Command headquarters, which had no South Korean officers in it, was responsible for the defense of South Korea, with operational control over a majority of the units in the South Korean military. The command was the primary peacetime planning organization for allied response to a North Korean invasion of South Korea and the principal wartime command organization for all South Korean and United States forces involved in defending South Korea. In 1978 a binational headquarters, the South Korea-United States Combined Forces Command (CFC), was created, and the South Korean military units with front-line missions were transferred from the UN Command to the CFC's operational control. The commander in chief of the CFC, a United States military officer, answered ultimately to the national command authorities of the United States and the Republic of Korea. Under the law, the Commander, US Forces Korea, is dual-hatted as Commander of the ROK-US CFC. The Deputy Commander is a 4-star general from the ROK Army, who is also dual-hatted as the ground forces component commander.

Therefore, the highest commander in the Korean army, is an American.

 

[gambit]

China's government can be said to be far more democratic than other developing nation's. We can do a simple analysis: number of Congress members per capita. China has 4x the population of the US but 10x the Congress members. Number of hereditary leaders in China is zero, while in USA it is at least 2 - Bush and Kennedy.

Hereditary mean the position and title is handed down from elder to younger. There was an 8-yr gap between B41 and B43, so this argument is absurd. But we know you specialize in this area.

 

[CardSharp]

Point is that the west expects everyone to follow the same developmental pattern they did, ie democracy from the start but they become rich and powerful in a very different environment and time. There is no evidence that the rest of the world can follow in their footsteps.

It could be said that the democracy movement is use to maintain the current balance of developed and developing countries. God knows that not everyone in this world can live the life that people in the west do. So either the developing countries have to stay the developing countries or the developed countries would have to accept a drop in their standard of living.

Note the number of journalists complaining if Chinese became rich, this consumption would hurt the world (as if their's didn't)

 

[below_freezing]

Point is that the west expects everyone to follow the same developmental pattern they did, ie democracy from the start but they become rich and powerful in a very different environment and time. There is no evidence that the rest of the world can follow in their footsteps.

It could be said that the democracy movement is use to maintain the current balance of developed and developing countries. God knows that not everyone in this world can live the life that people in the west do. So either the developing countries have to stay the developing countries or the developed countries would have to accept a drop in their standard of living.

Note the number of journalists complaining if Chinese became rich, this consumption would hurt the world (as if their's didn't)

The western nations were not democratic from the start.

Germany, Imperial Japan and Soviet Union were dictatorships.

Britain and US were oligarchies of upper class capitalists. Strikes and protests during the industrial revolution was met with cannons and machine guns.

France was unstable and switched from democracy to monarchy alot.

 

[gambit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Command_(Korea)

In the confusion of the early days of the Korean War, Seoul placed its armed forces under the command of General Douglas MacArthur as United Nations (UN) commander.[citation needed] This arrangement continued after the armistice. For some twenty-five years, the United Nations Command headquarters, which had no South Korean officers in it, was responsible for the defense of South Korea, with operational control over a majority of the units in the South Korean military. The command was the primary peacetime planning organization for allied response to a North Korean invasion of South Korea and the principal wartime command organization for all South Korean and United States forces involved in defending South Korea. In 1978 a binational headquarters, the South Korea-United States Combined Forces Command (CFC), was created, and the South Korean military units with front-line missions were transferred from the UN Command to the CFC's operational control. The commander in chief of the CFC, a United States military officer, answered ultimately to the national command authorities of the United States and the Republic of Korea. Under the law, the Commander, US Forces Korea, is dual-hatted as Commander of the ROK-US CFC. The Deputy Commander is a 4-star general from the ROK Army, who is also dual-hatted as the ground forces component commander.

Therefore, the highest commander in the Korean army, is an American.

Pathetic. By this argument, if the US military order NATO members to fire on their own citizens, NATO members are 'legally' obligated to the same? Same for NORAD which involve Canadians? That is sooooo amazing that alliance members are so ignorant of these 'legal' requirements.

And the link does not even point to the source paragraph...

 

[below_freezing]

Pathetic. By this argument, if the US military order NATO members to fire on their own citizens, NATO members are 'legally' obligated to the same? Same for NORAD which involve Canadians? That is sooooo amazing that alliance members are so ignorant of these 'legal' requirements.

If they refuse, legally it is insubordination and mutiny, and the US commander has the right to execute them on the spot.

 

[gambit]

If they refuse, legally it is insubordination and mutiny, and the US commander has the right to execute them on the spot.

Source for that? I look forward to reading a legal explanation on military alliances from someone who has never served in the military.

 

[below_freezing]

Mutiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most countries still punish mutiny with particularly harsh penalties, sometimes even the death penalty. Mutiny is typically thought of only in a shipboard context, but many countries' laws make no such distinction, and there have been very many notable mutinies on land.

 

[gambit]

Mutiny - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most countries still punish mutiny with particularly harsh penalties, sometimes even the death penalty. Mutiny is typically thought of only in a shipboard context, but many countries' laws make no such distinction, and there have been very many notable mutinies on land.

Still pathetic. In any transnational military alliances, member soldiers do not lose their citizenships nor do they cede national allegiances. I will leave that lead-up open to the legalism for now. Suffice to say that SACEUR cannot just shoot anyone 'on the spot' as you absurdly put it.

 

[marshall]

China's government can be said to be far more democratic than other developing nation's. We can do a simple analysis: number of Congress members per capita. China has 4x the population of the US but 10x the Congress members. Number of hereditary leaders in China is zero, while in USA it is at least 2 - Bush and Kennedy.

Hereditary mean the position and title is handed down from elder to younger. There was an 8-yr gap between B41 and B43, so this argument is absurd. But we know you specialize in this area.

I'm sure he meant American political family dynasties.

 

[marshall]

China should consider the catching up with the modern world as far as democracy is concerned . They should embrace democarcy just like India has.

We have more democracy than India.

China has more freedom than India, NOT democracy as it is defined in the modern world, which is MULTI-PARTY democracy. Multi-party democracy is not the institutionalization of freedom, it is the institutionalization of managed majority rule and is abused to varying degrees depending on the democracy. Freedom is a much more nuanced concept, whose degree of success is tied to not just the political system, but to economic development, social development, culture and justice, and I don't mean justice via International Law.