ok, I will first response to the "Western civilization" part now, then I will edit this post to include my comment on the Chinese History tomorrow. I need some help to write Chinese character here, it simply not ok to use English to reply something of a Chinese History.....
First of all, do you know the meaning of Civilization??
According to Oxford English Dictionary
Civilization : the stage of human social development and organization which is considered most advanced:
The word
Simply cannot be right as the western Civilization is not the most advanced in the Dark Ages. Dark ages is the opposite of Advanced on western civilization. As it was the decline of the Roman Empire. So, your word is simply,
wrong.
Saying that would be the same as saying. The Polish culture is defined and based on the German after the German occupied the Pole in WW2. The cultural identity of Poland was established long before the dude called Hitler was born. The fact that Hitler rule Poland does not change their cultural identity one bit.
And You also need to notice the different between Ancient Greek Law, Roman Law and Byzantine Law. The 3 have no co-relation to each other but both Ancient Greek law and Byzantine Law are based on Roman law at the time. if you say the West is based on the Arab, then in the subject of law, you are saying the Ancient Greek Law is based on Byzantine Law at the time. Which is simply incorrect.
If you want to see what is based on what, it's important to compare both entity at their most advanced, but at the same time, you also need to see how those two thing evolved. West does not observe Islamic Law, nor have Ramadan, so in term of law and culture, those two entity is different.
The only argument you had about the west is
BASED on Arab is the Western Civilization have absorbed some Arabic Element. Well, if you say that, then I can also say Chinese Culture is based on Arab if you are using the Arabic number as an prime example.
Did Chinese don't use Arabic Number??
10 out of 10 historian will tell you, the Western Civilization is based on Ancient Greek (Ancient Greek Law), West Roman (Latin Academia) and Nomadic and Greek Culture (Myth and Tales from the middle ages.).
Western Civilization was born before the time you mention. The Core of Western Civilization was born way before the Ottoman Empire at 1200 AD. Almost all Western Legacy are either based on Nordic to the North, Ancient Greek to the middle and Latin to the west. The Rise of the Ottoman Empire only signified the fall of East Roman Empire, it does not mean the fall of Civilization.
The Roman Legacy is being carried on by a number of different empire until the Modern Europe was born, just to name a few. The Goth and Visigoth. Kingdom of Italy. The Normed
Yea I know what civilization means, your argument makes no sense, the Dark ages Europe was at weakest, so the Arab helped it to reach the top, so what's wrong with my argument?
The germans occupied poland for a while, but the culture at that time was pretty much set as you said, but it wasn't during the dark ages. In fact the English king edward on the 8th crusade copied Arab castles as it is the best he ever seen in England once he got back.
First I said you could say, I didn't say completely, second you do know Byzantine empire is the Eastern Roman empire right? It's the same Roman empire that was divided between east and west, heck it was called Byzantium, before changing the name to constantinople, after Constantine, Roman emperor.
Also ancient greeks? It could really only mean Alexander, before and a time after right? The greeks civilized first, back then Rome was still a small piece of land based around rome. How could Greeks copy Romans then? By the time of Pompy, he conquered the Greeks and thus it was irrelevant what the greeks felt about Roman law.
I said science and designs, you give me examples of laws and religion, I never said it was completely based and certainly it was just a point after you said the Western culture was based on the three you mentioned, which to me meant no Arab contribution. Since you were arguing Arab contribution.
of course they have their own culture, even the Germanic never took Roman culture and the provinces of Rome maintained a lot of their own culture.
Since the Westernization began in China, yea Chinese culture did start to get based on many alien concepts.
I just said the West copied some ottoman stuff, how could the West and why would the West base their culture on the ottomans? Especially in the early stages.
This is just a response to your saying the Arabs are insignificant, which isn't true. They made massive contributions to the West.
Since when did I say Arab have no Involvement or Contribution to the West?
I say the West is based on Solely the Ancient Greek, the Roman and the Nomadic. That does not literally translate to the Arab never contribute to the West.......
also what do you think solely means?
You have to say modern science is at least somewhat based on Arab work.
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Dome of the Rock is Arab, and a few other things, the Arabs had kings and emperor sort of, not by that name. They didn't sit on their *** and do nothing. Financing buildings, the arts is the business of royalty.
To the American ottoman point, it was in reference to your hans came during the end of rome.
the you get what you get, maybe it was you, maybe not, it was definitely an American member, that much is for sure. Though of course one guy don't represent the group.
The partians still held out parts of the empire and yes their king was deposed, but as there was trouble with the Jews Trajan had to go back, and he did retreat. On his way back to Rome he died of sickness.
Hadrian, pretty much gave up mesopotamia and other conquered parts. So how is this a conquered people? In this sense, he failed, defeated, since he wanted Partia as part of Rome. If you just mean battles, no one wins everything.
All depends on how you see it, you see this as not a defeat? I see this as a defeat due to the main objective not being achieved and the ones that were was not for long.
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