China says Australia should consider Japan's war history before submarine contract

[gambit]

@Nihonjin1051 WTF just happened!??! So you just deceived us here pretending all along is that it?

Yes, he did. But he spun it as being 'strategically ambiguous'. I do not know why he, a claimed Ph.D, could be that dumb that he would think people would buy it.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051 WTF just happened!??! So you just deceived us here pretending all along is that it?



WTF 2x!!!! You of all people @Nihonjin1051 was suppose to understand. Thank you Sir @jhungary for pointing this out. I guess some people extend their hand in friendship while the other hand is on his back..... holding a knife to stab you in the eye.

“Some allies are more dangerous than enemies.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Dance with Dragons

Don't be too sensitive. Discourse is discourse.

@Nihonjin1051 WTF just happened!??! So you just deceived us here pretending all along is that it?



WTF 2x!!!! You of all people @Nihonjin1051 was suppose to understand. Thank you Sir @jhungary for pointing this out. I guess some people extend their hand in friendship while the other hand is on his back..... holding a knife to stab you in the eye.

“Some allies are more dangerous than enemies.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Dance with Dragons

Don't be too sensitive. Discourse is discourse.

 

[gambit]

So, i see where you are coming from. True to your vantage point you would have preferred SVN remain in the French Union and then ultimately gain idependence. The crux to this argument is , which history has clearly shown, would be dependence on France's merciful notion of granting independence to Viet Nam. I suppose it is thus evident to note that your understanding and perception of national liberation in context to Viet Nam's struggle against French Imperialism is naught. Since , as you have implied , you would have preferred the French system.

How very interesting. So you truly are a South Vietnamese , as Hanoi academics would object to that.

Again...You are wrong.

In brief for your benefit...

Ho Chi Minh was never authorized by anyone to speak for Viet Nam. Ho exploited his friendship with Jean Sainteny to make that deal, which he planned to betray when convenient. After French troops landed, the Viet Minh and France proceeded to slaughter other Vietnamese non-communist nationalists. Then he turned to China (Mao) for assistance to fight France. Ergo, without France and China, the Vietnam War would never have happened.

 

[jhungary]

@Nihonjin1051 WTF just happened!??! So you just deceived us here pretending all along is that it?



WTF 2x!!!! You of all people @Nihonjin1051 was suppose to understand. Thank you Sir @jhungary for pointing this out. I guess some people extend their hand in friendship while the other hand is on his back..... holding a knife to stab you in the eye.

“Some allies are more dangerous than enemies.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Dance with Dragons

As I said, I don't find his stance change a problem, he can and he did harbor some hatred toward American from the past (he actually said so a few months ago) but his tone is what I don't get.

He went from an analytical person, to an ideologist, to now simple just ranting away.

I don't really mind he is anti-US, at least do it in a honourable fashion, I mean, I have been engaged with some Anti US individual which actually put up a good fight, now he is just using lame excuse after another.....Even as @anon45 said, he now relegated into one-liner, basically do away the different between him and the other Chinese Troll in this forum.

Yet, as @gambit claim he do so while still trying to maintain ambiguousity....

 

[Aepsilons]

Again...You are wrong.

In brief for your benefit...

Ho Chi Minh was never authorized by anyone to speak for Viet Nam. Ho exploited his friendship with Jean Sainteny to make that deal, which he planned to betray when convenient. After French troops landed, the Viet Minh and France proceeded to slaughter other Vietnamese non-communist nationalists. Then he turned to China (Mao) for assistance to fight France. Ergo, without France and China, the Vietnam War would never have happened.

Precisely my point. Ho Chi Minh is considered the National Hero of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam, or perhaps you willfully refused to recognize that fact. You are coming from, naturally, the South Vietnamese or Pro-French platform. What you fail to see is that Viet Nam was liberated from French suzereignty through the defeat of the French in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu. Then after the US' abandomnent of Saigon , and South Viet Nam's extinguishment.

To ardent and patriotic Vietnamese, your anti-government voice is tantamount to Treason.

 

[Nilgiri]

Australia: OK China let us take some time to consider.....5 seconds later.....The war history has been considered.

Next issue please!

 

[gambit]

Precisely my point. Ho Chi Minh is considered the National Hero of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam, or perhaps you willfully refused to recognize that fact. You are coming from, naturally, the South Vietnamese or Pro-French platform. What you fail to see is that Viet Nam was liberated from French suzereignty through the defeat of the French in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu. Then after the US' abandomnent of Saigon , and South Viet Nam's extinguishment.

Again...Wrong....

When the Ho-Sainteny Agreement was made, Ho Chi Minh was just one of the many Vietnamese nationalists who worked with the American OSS to fight against Imperial JPN. He had some minor fame as member of the Viet Minh, but without his friendship with Jean Sainteny, he would have been a nobody.

 

[Viet]

No, you are basing the fact of his action on behalf of his nationality, which is South Vietnamese.

You said.



You basically based all his post, his view and his opinion down to the fact he is the South Vietnamese Boat people, he act the way he act here because his people were defeated by North Vietnam. And hence he harbour the grudge of North Vietnam, Communist and to some extend, China.

Let me give you a "For Instant" not all South Vietnamese harbor grudge to North Vietnam. Or not all former South Vietnamese officer are pro-South Vietnam and anti-North Vietnam.

Did you even know @Viet father used to serve with the South Vietnam armed force? I don't think he harbor any ill-will against Vietnam today and North Vietnam.

Many people coming from South Vietnam does not harbor anything, as my mother told me before, most of them actually hate their own government. And in fact, many refugee escape Vietnam is no other than the Chinese Ethnics North Vietnam national that won the war in 75, but was force to leave Vietnam by the Government in '79. My mother included.

Viet people are first and foremost pariots. we say "yeu nuoc", meaning "love the water", or patriot. Vietnam has a lot of rivers. it rains a lot especially in summer. we never say "love government". even the most anti commie haters in America and elsewhere send money home to family or visit family and relatives in Vietnam. there is no difference in patriotism between the North or South Vietnamese. we may dislike the government, but we never hate our motherland.

 

[Pangu]

@Nihonjin1051 I feel sorry for you that such backlash is unleash upon you for revealing your preference for greater Sino-Japanese relations. Perhaps you should have conceal your thoughts & toe-the-line to save yourself this predicament. But then again, what can they do to you on the internet, eh?

 

[Aepsilons]

Again...Wrong....

When the Ho-Sainteny Agreement was made, Ho Chi Minh was just one of the many Vietnamese nationalists who worked with the American OSS to fight against Imperial JPN. He had some minor fame as member of the Viet Minh, but without his friendship with Jean Sainteny, he would have been a nobody.

I think i perfectly know your position now. Thank You.

@Nihonjin1051 I feel sorry for you that such backlash is unleash upon you for revealing your preference for greater Sino-Japanese relations. Perhaps you should have conceal your thoughts & toe-the-line to save yourself this predicament. But then again, what can they do to you on the internet, eh?

What is truly sad is that multitude of Japanese academics and patriots have the same view as I. LOL.

Did i not say to @TaiShang of the "fit of rage" that would be leveled on Japan?

I prove myself right.

Viet people are first and foremost pariots. we say "yeu nuoc" or patriot. we never say "love government". even the most anti commie haters in America and elsewhere send money home to family or visit family and relatives in Vietnam. there is no difference in patriotism between the North or South Vietnamese. we may dislike the government, but we never hate our motherland.

And that National Unification was done not by the South, but completed , the mandate i mean, by Hanoi.

Hanoi unified Viet Nam. And not only that ejected American interventionalism. Secondly, it also proved American Domino Theory false since after the fall of Saigon and Laos and Cambodia, the rest of SEATO did not collapse.

A dialectic interchange, my friend. There are many papers on this.

 

[gambit]

I think i perfectly know your position now. Thank You.

No, you do not. Whatever perception you have of me, it is based upon your lack of facts and truths about the Vietnam War, which you think is sufficient to make an impression of me.

 

[Aepsilons]

That is what perception is.

 

[gambit]

That is what perception is.

If you are willing to live with the wrong perception of someone, even though when you are proven wrong repeatedly, then I feel sorry for you.

 

[Viet]

And that National Unification was done not by the South, but completed , the mandate i mean, by Hanoi.

Hanoi unified Viet Nam. And not only that ejected American interventionalism. Secondly, it also proved American Domino Theory false since after the fall of Saigon and Laos and Cambodia, the rest of SEATO did not collapse.

A dialectic interchange, my friend. There are many papers on this.

bro, I don´t know what you have in mind, why you suddently change your tone.

as for VN, for centuries, even going back 2,000 years, the Viet people always accept a ruler, no matter what gender, even a women, like the Trung Sisters, no matter what idology he/she has, but if the person liberates the country from invaders, unites the country, he/she becomes the King or Emperor of Vietnam.

it happned in the Trung Sister period, in the Ngo, the Le, the Nguyen, or now the Northerner. politics comes secondary. some viet people may disagree to their politics, but majority accept their ruling. historically, VN usually slips into chaos, when a ruler dies without naming a successor in advance (so happened in the end of the Le), or foreign invavion.

 

[Tshering22]

There is history and then there is persisting to live in history.

The generation of Japanese that committed the war crimes are no longer alive. And if they are, they are either deposed or physically incapable of doing anything significant to further continue those atrocities.

It is important to let go of past actions and not punish the current generation if they haven't done anything along the lines of their predecessors.

Japan has no interest in attacking China today and surely Chinese also don't have that interest.

Here in PDF, we have been talking about Asian Union and North East Asian Union and what not.

How is that possible when we keep holding the past against the present generation who is not repeating their predecessors' actions?

They are innocent and they feel bad about what happened in the past.

Chinese members, you and us in India suffered the British colonialism and also from French, Portuguese and other smaller countries. While my state was aligned with British for a while, much to my regret, it is easy to understand what our collective modern countries suffered from in those days.

But can you blame today's British when you walk around the streets of London, Birmingham or Manchester? No. They would just keep walking with a small smile on their face and a short nod. Who knows you might even befriend many as a tourist. There are some racist pricks but not all of them are that way.

What Shiro Ishi's military did with common Chinese is not the fault of Japanese people.

Let go of the past; forgive them the way we all forgave the central Asian and muslim countries for invading us.

If you hold onto the past pain, it will needlessly continue into the future.