China says Australia should consider Japan's war history before submarine contract

[Aepsilons]

Dude, background profiling is an act of racism........

You basically generalize a person action with regard to his skin colour, language, religion and location. If this is not racist, then I don't know what is...

No, its not based on his skin color (which i would say probably is no different than mine). What i am basing is his posts, his arguments, and then juxtaposing that to his own admission that he was from SVN, and counter-juxtaposition to his rather anti-communist ideations, anti-socialist ideations.

Let just say i am good at observation.

 

[jhungary]

Only a minority of Americans have served in the military, would you go as far to say the majority of Americans knows nothing about this country?

Other factors like living experience, human interaction and education also be major factors, I assume Ninhonjin has lived in Japan before he ever came to the US, right? however I don't think Gambit has ever lived a China or Japan.

You miss the whole point.

The point is, @gambit did not start this BS such as "You did not know anything about America and it is a racist country)

Any kind of interaction bring you to the same point. I have never been to Russia, if a Russian never been to America said "I know more about US by watching TV than you know about Russia" What do you think of that?

 

[sicsheep]

You miss the whole point.

The point is, @gambit did not start this BS such as "You did not know anything about America and it is a racist country)

Any kind of interaction bring you to the same point. I have never been to Russia, if a Russian never been to America said "I know more about US by watching TV than you know about Russia" What do you think of that?

Nah, you are twisting his words, Ninhonjin ever claim to know more about US than Gambit, He said Gambits view on certain matters is from a personal perspective with personal feelings involved, and contradicts view of majority of American public.

 

[jhungary]

No, its not based on his skin color (which i would say probably is no different than mine). What i am basing is his posts, his arguments, and then juxtaposing that to his own admission that he was from SVN, and counter-juxtaposition to his rather anti-communist ideations, anti-socialist ideations.

Let just say i am good at observation.

No, you are basing the fact of his action on behalf of his nationality, which is South Vietnamese.

You said.

The problem is that he is resistant to change ; and by change i mean in the organic sense of change in taking part in positive, and productive dialogue in context to China. There is always this sense of tone that Gambit and others like him -- that views China as a 'threat'. Perhaps its best to understand his national ethnicity , that he is a Vietnamese; specifically a proud Viet Namese from what was South Viet Nam. So you have to understand his anti-communist view points (given NVN, SVN dynamic and the eventual defeat of SVN). The South Vietnamese community , many of the boat people, who were forced to abandon their country and flee to the west have relatively poor views on Hanoi and the forced integrationism that was imposed on SVN after the reunification after the subsumption of Saigon under Hanoi.

So when you discuss with him (Gambit), you need to know that background first and foremost. As for his position of viewing China as a threat, i would conjecture that the role China had in supporting NVN is related. Secondly, the role of Viet Nam and China in context to national rivalry. So its best to understand the South Vietnamese mindset, then over-arching Viet Namese mindset, then the American identity mindset. Voila.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/china-says-australia-should-consider-japans-war-history-before-submarine-contract.422504/page-6#ixzz40Uj39E9m

You basically based all his post, his view and his opinion down to the fact he is the South Vietnamese Boat people, he act the way he act here because his people were defeated by North Vietnam. And hence he harbour the grudge of North Vietnam, Communist and to some extend, China.

Let me give you a "For Instant" not all South Vietnamese harbor grudge to North Vietnam. Or not all former South Vietnamese officer are pro-South Vietnam and anti-North Vietnam.

Did you even know @Viet father used to serve with the South Vietnam armed force? I don't think he harbor any ill-will against Vietnam today and North Vietnam.

Many people coming from South Vietnam does not harbor anything, as my mother told me before, most of them actually hate their own government. And in fact, many refugee escape Vietnam is no other than the Chinese Ethnics North Vietnam national that won the war in 75, but was force to leave Vietnam by the Government in '79. My mother included.

 

[sicsheep]

Why they have to feel frustrated. As said many, many time by the US government, US does not have any stake in either East Sea and South China Sea claim.

The American don't really care if you nuke each other or buy each other beer. It does not matter to the American. American wanted these dispute to be solved PEACEFULLY. We don't care if you talk about it, or China annex the whole Japan or vice versa to get to that.

US did not officially take sides in the Claim, but US has all the stakes in the claims, that;s how US wants to have leverage on all parties involved, It is like being a independent in the senate, so both parties will come to you for support.

 

[Aepsilons]

Many people coming from South Vietnam does not harbor anything, as my mother told me before, most of them actually hate their own government. And in fact, many refugee escape Vietnam is no other than the Chinese Ethnics North Vietnam national that won the war in 75, but was force to leave Vietnam by the Government in '79. My mother included.

My barber is a South Vietnamese from the city of Danang. He has sweeping generalizations about North Viet Nam and even society in Viet nam now. Let me say that i have spent a lot of time interacting with American Vietnamese (most of them , in fact MAJORITY of them are descendents of Vietnamese boat people fromm SVN) , they tend to have and perpetuate the SVN's viewpoint. So i have experience in knowing SVN mindset and tone because i have a lot of VNese friends , i travel frequently to Viet town in South Philly, shop at VNese market places in South Philly and also in Atlantic City.

Regards dude.

PS. lets say i have a qualitative understanding of Vietnamese national perceptions and various patriotic viewpoints.
One learns alot by just listening to Vietnamese people talk...while enjoying a XL bowl of pho tai gan sach. By just nodding my head and gulping down pho, and listening to them. with a smile.

 

[jhungary]

Nah, you are twisting his words, Ninhonjin ever claim to know more about US than Gambit, He said Gambits view on certain matters is from a personal perspective with personal feelings involved, and contradicts view of majority of American public.

He actually did

This is his reply to Gambit

Of course I do. There is no such thing as an 'American Psyche'. Americans are varied and multitude. Tho understanding the 'White Christian' psyche is important so as to know the majority. The minorities are just that. Minorities.

Is understanding the JPNese psyche something desirable ? An honor ? It is a two-way street, pal. It is equally valid that our JPNese friend will never understand the American psyche either, no matter how long he lives and works in the US.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/china-says-australia-should-consider-japans-war-history-before-submarine-contract.422504/page-5#ixzz40UlIzKJ9

I don't see where when Gambit said he understanding Japanese Psyche, in fact, what he said in his question actually say he don't really care if understanding Japanese Psyche something desirable.

Then @Nihonjin1051 went on and claim @gambit does not represent US as he is a first generation Vietnamese-American. Well, everyone with a US Passport represent the US, it does not matter if your view are mainstream or not, that is why a lot of people said crap about the US Government and they are still allowed to continue. So by lecturing an American Citizens, be that adopted, about American value, that something is equal to a slap in his own mouth.

Did I come to you and say you don't represent China when you are not native Chinese?? Or don't live in China anymore?

US did not officially take sides in the Claim, but US has all the stakes in the claims, that;s how US wants to have leverage on all parties involved, It is like being a independent in the senate, so both parties will come to you for support.

Then please do tell how China went to war with Japan benefit US?

China went to war with Japan, US lose bunch of money as both country US have been heavily invested in. And Whoever win will going to be dominate the region (Unless it's a draw) and US will lose influence on whoever left. I eman if China win, that does not matter as US have no influence INSIDE china to begin with. If Japan win, Japan would lose their own enemy and US would simply be shown the door.

It's the same situation as in Korea, war is not desirable for US no matter who's win. Better put Chinese Threat in place and keep the influence and suck dry the Japanese (As Nihonjin Claim) then having to see a war which it does nto benefit the US anyhow

 

[Aepsilons]

Dear aussie friends, ehem, lol. Aint she just 'purrty ?

 

[jhungary]

My barber is a South Vietnamese from the city of Danang. He has sweeping generalizations about North Viet Nam and even society in Viet nam now. Let me say that i have spent a lot of time interacting with American Vietnamese (most of them , in fact MAJORITY of them are descendents of Vietnamese boat people fromm SVN) , they tend to have and perpetuate the SVN's viewpoint. So i have experience in knowing SVN mindset and tone because i have a lot of VNese friends , i travel frequently to Viet town in South Philly, shop at VNese market places in South Philly and also in Atlantic City.

Regards dude.

PS. lets say i have a qualitative understanding of Vietnamese national perceptions and various patriotic viewpoints.
One learns alot by just listening to Vietnamese people talk...while enjoying a XL bowl of pho tai gan sach. By just nodding my head and gulping down pho, and listening to them. with a smile.

Did I say My mother is a Vietnamese??

So, you met "A lot" of South Vietnamese, then you can concur by definition that @gambit is one of these people? I can say, for the stuff that I have seen. I have seen both.

To say that, again, you generalize EVERY former South Vietnamese

By the way, the term "Vietnamese Boat People" were used to exclusively refer to those Vietnamese Refugee flee the Communist Regime in 1979-1980. After those who supposed to have won the war with America.

This document with UNHCR demonstrate how to Refugee crisis unfold in Vietnam in the duration of 1975 to 1980

Increasingly, UNHCR’s focus shifted from helping the displaced within Viet Nam to helping those who fled the country. In the final days before the fall of Saigon in April 1975, some 140,000 Vietnamese who were closely associated with the former South Vietnamese government were evacuated from the country and resettled in the United States.The US-organized evacuation was followed by a smaller exodus of Vietnamese who found their own way by boat to neighbouring Southeast Asian countries. By the end of 1975, some 5,000 Vietnamese had arrived in Thailand, along with 4,000 in Hong Kong, 1,800 in Singapore, and 1,250 in the Philippines.

More than 450,000 Indochinese refugees were resettled from Southeast Asian camps in the space of 18 months. From 1980 to 1986, as resettlement out-paced declining arrivals, refugee officials began to speak with growing optimism about solving the regional crisis.

On 20–21 July 1979, 65 governments responded to an invitation from the UN Secretary-General to attend an international conference on Indochinese refugees. The international commitments they made were several and significant. Worldwide resettlement pledges increased from 125,000 to 260,000. Viet Nam agreed to try to halt illegal departures and, instead, to promote orderly and direct departures from Viet Nam. Indonesia and the Philippines pledged to establish regional processing centres to speed resettlement and new pledges to UNHCR totalled about US$160 million in cash and in kind, more than doubling the total of the previous four years.

Most refugee from Vietnam escape from the 1979 War with China than the Refugee that supposed to have connection with South Vietnam in 1975. In fact, in 1979 alone, the world have settle more Vietnam refugee than the 1975 (250,000 in 1979 versus 140,000 + Change in 1975) and an upper estimate duing the whole episode were said to have 450,000 Vietnamese refugee fleeing Vietnam after the Chinese war then less than 200,000 fleeing the American War...

http://www.unhcr.org/3ebf9bad0.pdf

 

[Aepsilons]

Did I say My mother is a Vietnamese??

Perfect, so that explains the ideological trend. Thanks for sharing.

 

[jhungary]

Perfect, so that explains the ideological trend. Thanks for sharing.

no, that did not explain anything, other than you are actually a big racist....Because you are again generalization the Vietnamese.

 

[Aepsilons]

no, that did not explain anything, other than you are actually a big racist....Because you are again generalization the Vietnamese.

Its called Political Ethnography.

Do engross yourself to various forms of qualitative analyses.

Political Ethnography: What Immersion Contributes to the Study of Power, Schatz

http://www.fflch.usp.br/dcp/8-30.pdf

 

[gambit]

Its called human interaction. I suppose its best for you to get used to differing opinions.

And deceit is a tool in human interactions. Deceitful is what you are.

The problem is that he is resistant to change ; and by change i mean in the organic sense of change in taking part in positive, and productive dialogue in context to China.

There is nothing wrong with resistance to change. In fact, if a person is an engineer, resistance to change is a required personality trait. If a system is working, no matter how flawed and degrees of inefficiencies there might be, changes should be incremental and precise.

A 'productive' dialogue is a matter of perspective. If a dialogue resulted in a satisfactory compromise, meaning all sides have equal measures of happiness and disappointment, only after the fact can we say the dialogue was 'productive'.

There is always this sense of tone that Gambit and others like him -- that views China as a 'threat'. Perhaps its best to understand his national ethnicity , that he is a Vietnamese; specifically a proud Viet Namese from what was South Viet Nam. So you have to understand his anti-communist view points (given NVN, SVN dynamic and the eventual defeat of SVN). The South Vietnamese community , many of the boat people, who were forced to abandon their country and flee to the west have relatively poor views on Hanoi and the forced integrationism that was imposed on SVN after the reunification after the subsumption of Saigon under Hanoi.

So when you discuss with him (Gambit), you need to know that background first and foremost. As for his position of viewing China as a threat, i would conjecture that the role China had in supporting NVN is related. Secondly, the role of Viet Nam and China in context to national rivalry. So its best to understand the South Vietnamese mindset, then over-arching Viet Namese mindset, then the American identity mindset. Voila.

The loss of SVN is irrelevant when it comes to China and even the Chinese members here know that about me. Even more irrelevant is communism. What matters to me when it comes to China and VN is that China was a major player in starting the Vietnam War. The other major player is France and so far, no Frenchmen in this forum dared to enter the discussion about that.

You do not know me as well as you think you do.

 

[James David]

In fact racism is a real issue in the United States, Gambit. Why do you think that #blacklivesmatter is not real? Do you discount police brutality paradigm and the state departments' own review of such cases throughout the country? Do you refute the comments of Trump and the growing anti-immigrationism and anti-islam, anti-mexican rhetorics in the United States? Surely i can guarantee you and without a doubt from listening and taking part in discussions with students that this is a live paradigm in the qualitative sense of sharing.

Secondly, as for the private discussion, i had noted some members who used the term "J@p" , and requested a review in propagating racism in the board. The fact that you are so insidioulsy trying to spin that around now and use it against me reveals so much about your insipid character.

You know in the past i used to DEFEND you whenever you got into arguments with Chinese members. To the point that i would also be attacked. I remember even calling out @Kiss_of_the_Dragon and also @xunzi out on arguments and to remind them of giving some kind of respect due to your being our senior (in age). As is customary in Japanese, Chinese , Korean and Asian culture to show some respect to our elders.

I have always tried to remain pragmatic , even to the point that it may have even went against some of my own political views.

It appears that you just don't happen to like my views. Simple as that really, oh well. Learn to get used to it.

@Nihonjin1051 WTF just happened!??! So you just deceived us here pretending all along is that it?

To be honest, nobody actually care if you post anti-American material on here in PDF, really, we have Chinese, Pakistani, Indian, even Brits posting Anti-American post out here already, you need to stand in line like everybody else, nor does anyone really care about how you defend American member out here, we all see one thing, people's mind in their post.

I don't know what happened to you, and honestly, I don't want to know either, but as I said on the other thread, you have change from being an "Idealist" to basically "Hypocrite" in simply 2 weeks times.

Being Pragmatic is being pragmatic, but what you are actually doing now is simply sucking up the Chinese, I am quite honestly amaze how quickly the Chinese seems to be okay with your sucking up, as I learn this in defence intelligence school, you should never trust a double agent, because if he had turned once, what make you think he won't turn again when the right circumstance present itself.

If you have found your own true calling, then I congratulate you on it, I hope you go all the way and gain a Chinese Passport yourselves. But if what you want to do is still claim you are being pragmatic, then I will simply say this, you are lying to yourselves.

Not only me, but I think many other people think you have losing your plots, and not because you went anti-American overnight, but the way you carry on a conversation.

@mike2000 is back @James Jaevid @Technogaianist

WTF 2x!!!! You of all people @Nihonjin1051 was suppose to understand. Thank you Sir @jhungary for pointing this out. I guess some people extend their hand in friendship while the other hand is on his back..... holding a knife to stab you in the eye.

“Some allies are more dangerous than enemies.”
― George R.R. Martin, A Dance with Dragons

 

[Aepsilons]

The loss of SVN is irrelevant when it comes to China and even the Chinese members here know that about me. Even more irrelevant is communism. What matters to me when it comes to China and VN is that China was a major player in starting the Vietnam War. The other major player is France and so far, no Frenchmen in this forum dared to enter the discussion about that.

So, i see where you are coming from. True to your vantage point you would have preferred SVN remain in the French Union and then ultimately gain idependence. The crux to this argument is , which history has clearly shown, would be dependence on France's merciful notion of granting independence to Viet Nam. I suppose it is thus evident to note that your understanding and perception of national liberation in context to Viet Nam's struggle against French Imperialism is naught. Since , as you have implied , you would have preferred the French system.

How very interesting. So you truly are a South Vietnamese , as Hanoi academics would object to that.