China reaches half of its 2015 high speed rail target, much more to come

[huskie]

the Ministry of railways is over.and a new world top 500 company is given birth.hope it will give better service as well as cheaper tickets

not quite sure about the possibility of better service, but I am pretty sure that whoever bets on lower fare after railway commercialization is bound to lose (not to mention this is happening in China). In fact you would feel lucky if the average fare only increases by 100%, especially on popular routes.

 

[Genesis]

not quite sure about the possibility of better service, but I am pretty sure that whoever bets on lower fare after railway commercialization is bound to lose (not to mention this is happening in China). In fact you would feel lucky if the average fare only increases by 100%, especially on popular routes.

true, the more we advance the more we become America, just look at the la to San Fransisco railway. Though, I'm assuming that with in the decade, China will be able to reach at least a per capita of 10,000 almost doubling the income, so rail prices will not be too much in comparison.

 

[huskie]

the former minister Liu zhijun was caught for corruption

He is more like a corrupt (needs to be confirmed though) yet extremely competent official. To say that he is an overachiever is an underestimate of his contributions, considering most Chinese officials are corrupt and incompetent.

 

[Genesis]

He is more like a corrupt (needs to be confirmed though) yet extremely competent official. To say that he is an overachiever is an underestimate of his contributions, considering most Chinese officials are corrupt and incompetent.

most Chinese or most officials? Obama isn't a great leader nor is Romney, they are no FDR and no Washington, those people come once every generation if that.

We just have to make do, with whatever we got until the next great leader.

Also, he is capable, corruption doesn't mean useless, useless mean useless.

 

[huskie]

true, the more we advance the more we become America, just look at the la to San Fransisco railway. Though, I'm assuming that with in the decade, China will be able to reach at least a per capita of 10,000 almost doubling the income, so rail prices will not be too much in comparison.

America is in a different league due to its 'a-nation-on-wheels' culture and powerful aviation industry, its freight rail system is still among the top, but its passenger rail system is a joke compared to most developed countries.

There are a lot of lessons China need to learn to avoid mistakes in Argentinian and British railway commercialization/privatization process. A more suitable model to emulate would be the Japanese railway reform.

 

[huskie]

To say most Chinese officials are incompetent may be too harsh. I do, however, believe that the majority of them care more about their promotion rather than social progress, although nowadays economic development is sorta per-requisite of political promotion in China. They choose to play safe, so they tend to focus on pushing up the GDP number, but neglect the social injustice and environment etc.

Politics is dirty by nature and most politicians in the world are corrupt (just in different ways) and incompetent (except for playing with politics). That is why I find it hard enough to have someone who can actually achieve something.

most Chinese or most officials? Obama isn't a great leader nor is Romney, they are no FDR and no Washington, those people come once every generation if that.

We just have to make do, with whatever we got until the next great leader.

Also, he is capable, corruption doesn't mean useless, useless mean useless.

 

[Genesis]

To say most Chinese officials are incompetent may be too harsh. I do, however, believe that the majority of them care more about their promotion rather than social progress, although nowadays economic development is sorta per-requisite of political promotion in China. They choose to play safe, so they tend to focus on pushing up the GDP number, but neglect the social injustice and environment etc.

Politics is dirty by nature and most politicians in the world are corrupt (just in different ways) and incompetent (except for playing with politics). That is why I find it hard enough to have someone who can actually achieve something.

as oppose to Obama, stephen harper? They talk tough on China, but then when they get elected nothing happened.

As to your playing safe, do you know what China looked like 10, 20 years ago?

 

[PITA]

There is NO way the fare is going to be cheaper but it'll still be affordable. Nine years ago the Tianjin-Beijing regular train ticket was around 10-15 yuan. I think they still have a couple of the slow trains going to the central station but all the high speed ones are 57 now, I think. Not a huge expense but still...

 

[Genesis]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/04/b...r-speed-and-ambition.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

check it, China is building these like it's going out of style. Even the article admit that only China can build this fast and this good.

So, before you use your American logic, it never happened in America, so now China will find its own way. Since you hate Chinese copying so much....

Oh and price hike? So what, people are earning more why shouldn't they spend more, the West is costing more but people aren't earning more, so of the two which do you like?

 

[huskie]

I admit that I have fairly high standard for calling a politician competent, and that is merely based on achievement rather than words. And since I don't believe any politician is a saint, I would judge a politician by the difference between what he/she takes and delivers. Among the talkative American politicians, Ron Paul is my favorite, but sadly he's never got a real chance to reach the white house.

Anyway back to the topic, the reason why I was bit overacted and used the 'incompetent Chinese officials' remark is mostly due to the fact that Liu has been unfairly treated by Chinese media. The Chinese state media as well as private websites have been intentionally ignoring Liu's contributions while blowing his fault out of proportion by using false stories. I remember that 15 years ago, the original Chinese HSR plan was to build Beijing-Shanghai HSR before 2015 at a much lower designed speed (and forget about other HSRs such as Beijing-Guangzhou HSR). Without Liu, the Chinese MoR would have been lucky to achieve 1/5 of what it has achieved in HSR now. I do believe that he should face legal consequences once he is convicted of the corruption charge. However, if he is really so rotten and bad as Chinese mainstream media has been portraying him, what about the majority of the Chinese officials?

as oppose to Obama, stephen harper? They talk tough on China, but then when they get elected nothing happened.

As to your playing safe, do you know what China looked like 10, 20 years ago?

 

[Genesis]

I admit that I have fairly high standard for calling a politician competent, and that is merely based on achievement rather than words. And since I don't believe any politician is a saint, I would judge a politician by the difference between what he/she takes and delivers. Among the talkative American politicians, Ron Paul is my favorite, but sadly he's never got a real chance to reach the white house.

Anyway back to the topic, the reason why I was bit overacted and used the 'incompetent Chinese officials' remark is mostly due to the fact that Liu has been unfairly treated by Chinese media. The Chinese state media as well as private websites have been intentionally ignoring Liu's contributions while blowing his fault out of proportion by using false stories. I remember that 15 years ago, the original Chinese HSR plan was to build Beijing-Shanghai HSR before 2015 at a much lower designed speed (and forget about other HSRs such as Beijing-Guangzhou HSR). Without Liu, the Chinese MoR would have been lucky to achieve 1/5 of what it has achieved in HSR now. I do believe that he should face legal consequences once he is convicted of the corruption charge. However, if he is really so rotten and bad as Chinese mainstream media has been portraying him, what about the majority of the Chinese officials?

I may have overacted, but truth be told, I don't think it was his corruption, it might be that he was blocking the transition to this new form of rail road management, might be a political in fighting kind of deal. Either way, his achievements are great, and his corruption may not be as bad, but he lost the political battle and down he goes.

To Ron Paul, have you heard that he said he can negotiate with the confederates and unlike Lincoln there be no war. This guy is either delusional or stupid, which ever one is not good for America. Besides he couldn't even win nomination, how much power did this guy have in the party? None or almost none?

The other Chinese officials are normal people, they are not incompetent, they are normal. They are not the second coming of Napoleon or Talleyrand so you can't expect too much. Not every one is a world changer, if they are, nobody would remember Mao, Stalin, Chamberlain, FDR, and Truman

 

[shuttler]

Someone may kindly correct me if I am wrong on these:

China railway lines cover 80,000 km in the last 30 years
US railway lines cover 75,000 km since its independence

 

[Brutas]

US do not have any dedicated high speed lines.

 

[huskie]

you are very wrong about the US number, the US railway network at peak time reached about 410,000 km (mostly built around the late 19th century and the early 20th century). Even if many tracks were dismantled, American railway network still is the longest in the world (with more than 226,000 km of rail lines).

Also, China had about 52,900 km of rail lines in 1982, so in the past 30 years China built about 45,000 km. You probably want to focus on the past two decades, because China built 40,000 km of railways since 1992.

Someone may kindly correct me if I am wrong on these:

China railway lines cover 80,000 km in the last 30 years
US railway lines cover 75,000 km since its independence

 

[shuttler]

you are very wrong about the US number, the US railway network at peak time reached about 410,000 km (mostly built around the late 19th century and the early 20th century). Even if many tracks were dismantled, American railway network still is the longest in the world (with more than 226,000 km of rail lines).

Also, China had about 52,900 km of rail lines in 1982, so in the past 30 years China built about 45,000 km. You probably want to focus on the past two decades, because China built 40,000 km of railways since 1992.

I am waiting for this feedback. Good and now narrow the focus on high-speed railways. How long of that in China and in America respectively?