CHINA PROVIDED Z10 HELICOPTER TO PAKISTAN

[Donatello]

Those are surplus choppers, aka second hand, and the deal didn't include long term maintenance. If I recall, the Mi-35s that Pakistan bought was for counter-narcotics division, not the PAA.

The Z-10 comes with it's own problems, one of which I already mentioned, which is it's reliability. Turkey is expensive right now, but it has offered a really great deal which PAA is seriously considering pursuing.

I'm sure the army will try to get the best platform it can afford, the problem is when it will happen.

Which second hand choppers? Cobras? I think it is time Pakistan went for a more capable platform that can keep up with the changing armored and coin battle space.

 

[That Guy]

Unproven does not means is no good. If by your logic, the world will never progress with new technology.

WZ-10 design is more updated with reduced RCS and stealth coating. The advance HMS makes targeting and fire of ATGM a breeze.
Plus the KD-1 missile in terms of range and payload is superior to anything that the turkish can throw at us. The turkish even needs to buy HQ-9 SAM from China. I do not know what advantage of technology they have over China? If it's so good, they wouldn't even need to buy SAM but build one themselves.

All of this is currently looks good only on paper. None of these specifications can be proven until an actual combat scenario, which is one of the reasons for this so called "gift". China is doing this to test it's platform, which is a good idea. Pakistan needs newer helis, and China needs to test it's weapons systems in real world scenarios, so it's theoretically win-win for everyone.

While unproven doesn't necessarily mean good, if a problem with the aircraft occurs during a high priority mission, that can cause major problems. The PAA wants to buy Chinese, but this war has made it's needs more urgent, and changed it's priorities from long term acquisitions to short term.

 

[SQ8]

Mr you need a doctor you are always negative 3 is nothing for China and will also get tested in real situation

Mr you need religion, you are always lying to yourself to keep happy.

 

[That Guy]

Which second hand choppers? Cobras? I think it is time Pakistan went for a more capable platform that can keep up with the changing armored and coin battle space.

I believe it was upgraded AH-1Zs. Not the most advanced helis, but they would be far safer than the current Pakistani cobra fleet.

 

[That Guy]

Look at your double standard. One thing you say WZ-10 is unproven and yet T-129 has yet nothing of a combat history to prove anything and it goes to your favouritism without questioning.

No hypocrisy here. The T-129 is being co-developed by AgustaWestland, which is a consortium with a proven history of developing reliable systems.

There is no need to be defensive about this. I get it, you feel the need to defend your nation's honor, but this isn't the place for that. I'm speaking from a political and military point of view, so getting offended over my comments is worthless for you to do.

A Pakistanis living in Canada will be typically bombard with all kind of anti-China bashing about China being a low tech and unproven technology. I can understand how you inherit this kind of mentality. Stop worshipping the West. The fastest super computer is build in China. China technology is on par or if not, better than some of them.

So instead of addressing my points, you're going to attack me and my nationality? Why are you bringing up topics that have nothing to do with this subject? super computers have nothing to do with military helicopters.

 

[Beast]

No hypocrisy here. The T-129 is being co-developed by AgustaWestland, which is a consortium with a proven history of developing reliable systems.

There is no need to be defensive about this. I get it, you feel the need to defend your nation's honor, but this isn't the place for that. I'm speaking from a political and military point of view, so getting offended over my comments is worthless for you to do.

So you mean T-129 is just a copy of Mangusta and just slap with another name and yet so worshipped by you of an older technology?

 

[That Guy]

So you mean T-129 is just a copy of Mangusta and just slap with another name and yet so worshipped by you of an older technology?

Read my comments. If you can't be bothered to do some basic research, and want to get defensive all the damn time, that's your problem. I don't have time to waste on an ultra-nationalist too blind to see past his own nose. I'm done here.

 

[Beast]

Read my comments. If you can't be bothered to do some basic research, and want to get defensive all the damn time, that's your problem. I don't have time to waste on an ultra-nationalist too blind to see past his own nose. I'm done here.

It got to do with your double standard mentality? What do you mean by unproven and your unexplain favouritism of Turkish product without any merit?

You mean all Chinese engineer when design their product are dumb not to test extensively of their prototype like putting into harsh dry environment like Xinjiang or super cold temperament area like inner mongolia? No extensive flying of long hours of without needed repair test are carried out? The missile firing and operational mode are never tested by CHinese engineer and test pilot. It just a one time shot and comfirm it works. CHinese testing are proven to be shabby and not trustworthy, am I right of your opinion? A operational Chinese military hardwareclear to be used by armed forces are not to be trusted. China QC are all bad. IS that what you think?

Probably Kuwaiti are also dumb to buy China SPH like PL-45 becos its not war proven and Kuwaiti are dumb enough not to have extensively tested Chinese hardware in their desert environment and buy blindly?

 

[Zarvan]

Mr you need religion, you are always lying to yourself to keep happy.

Mr I see positive side and that is its way better than the cobras we have and can carry 8 Anti Tank Missiles and two AIR TO AIR

 

[That Guy]

It got to do with your double standard mentality? What do you mean by unproven and your unexplain favouritism of Turkish product without any merit?

You mean all Chinese engineer when design their product are dumb not to test extensively of their prototype like putting into harsh dry environment like Xinjiang or super cold temperament area like inner mongolia? No extensive flying of long hours of without needed repair test are carried out? The missile firing and operational mode are never tested by CHinese engineer and test pilot. It just a one time shot and comfirm it works. CHinese testing are proven to be shabby and not trustworthy, am I right of your opinion? A operational Chinese military hardwareclear to be used by armed forces are not to be trusted. China QC are all bad. IS that what you think?

Probably Kuwaiti are also dumb to buy China SPH like PL-45 becos its not war proven and Kuwaiti are dumb enough not to have extensively tested Chinese hardware in their desert environment and buy blindly?

Learn to read and write properly, then get back to me. FYI, none of what you're accusing me of is what I'm saying.

 

[Viper0011.]

No hypocrisy here. The T-129 is being co-developed by AgustaWestland, which is a consortium with a proven history of developing reliable systems.

There is no need to be defensive about this. I get it, you feel the need to defend your nation's honor, but this isn't the place for that. I'm speaking from a political and military point of view, so getting offended over my comments is worthless for you to do.

What are you looking for in used Cobras or new Augusta's or in the Z's? Are you trying to buy a Lamborhini so you can take your girlfriend out in a sun dress sitting on the front seat or are you looking for a reliable helicopter with good firepower, newer avionics and reliability with affordable cost? If the answer is the later, than both, Turkish and Z's would be your answer for a country like Pakistan. The Lamborghini (Apaches and super Cobras), is not really affordable to you in numbers. May be in the next ten years when the economy grows.

But, the Z's can be obtained, test driven for free, modified per the needs, they already carry a very good payload (rockets, 8 anti-tank and 2 AAMs), and have a new generation design and avionics, add the price tag (super cheap for Pakistan) and you can NOT beat this. Add your leverage on the Chinese and the ability to start to get TOT and local limited manufacturing and assembly, and bring thousands of jobs to Pakistan, and advance your industry, it doesn't even require to think twice. You can do what you did to JFT, add Western stuff too and sell it to others and make $$. Augusta and others won't let you do it. Plus getting local assembly, you could bring leaps and bounds worth of change in your helicopter manufacturing industry and you can produce a civilian version of this helicopter with modifications to the airframe. This is a strategic play and you should utilize this opportunity.

 

[Beast]

Learn to read and write properly, then get back to me. FYI, none of what you're accusing me of is what I'm saying.

So you think none of my post makes sense? Any product by any major power when put on market on sales certainly has gone thru a great deal of testing in many possible environment and scenario and no manufacturer dare to exaggerate too much of their capabilities. All the flaws can be easily exposed by test pilots of other countries if we dare to play the marketing trick. It goes without saying Chinese companies do understand those basic logic.

If just irk me when you claim all those capabilities I mention are brush off as unproven? You think Pakistanis test pilot are bribed by Chinese to give favourable report to Pakistanis side when tested our WZ-10? What do you mean by unproven? We fake KD-10 missile range and the new HMS capabilities are probably BS? How can one fake such data when all these are exposed immediately if tested by a foreign test pilots and get a laughing stock if we dare to make such tricks?

Why Kuwait bother to buy our SPH PL-45 if its not as good as stated?

 

[That Guy]

What are you looking for in used Cobras or new Augusta's or in the Z's? Are you trying to buy a Lamborhini so you can take your girlfriend out in a sun dress sitting on the front seat or are you looking for a reliable helicopter with good firepower, newer avionics and reliability with affordable cost? If the answer is the later, than both, Turkish and Z's would be your answer for a country like Pakistan. The Lamborghini (Apaches and super Cobras), is not really affordable to you in numbers. May be in the next ten years when the economy grows.

But, the Z's can be obtained, test driven for free, modified per the needs, they already carry a very good payload (rockets, 8 anti-tank and 2 AAMs), and have a new generation design and avionics, add the price tag (super cheap for Pakistan) and you can NOT beat this. Add your leverage on the Chinese and the ability to start to get TOT and local limited manufacturing and assembly, and bring thousands of jobs to Pakistan, and advance your industry, it doesn't even require to thing twice. You can do what you did to JFT, add Western stuff too and sell it to others and make $$. Augusta and others won't let you do it. Plus getting local assembly, you could bring leaps and bounds worth of change in your helicopter manufacturing industry and you can produce a civilian version of this helicopter with modifications to the airframe. This is a strategic play and you should utilize this opportunity.

Well, it's not up to me, I'm a random guy expressing his opinion on the internet. Most of what you said, I've already mentioned in previous posts, so repeating myself would be pointless here.

 

[anatolia]

Well, it's not up to me, I'm a random guy expressing his opinion on the internet. Most of what you said, I've already mentioned in previous posts, so repeating myself would be pointless here.

just tell him China is superpower .he would calm down then.

 

[That Guy]

just tell him China is superpower .he would calm down then.

I don't want to even respond to him. Ultra-nationalists will find every little thing to get offended about, there isn't even any reason to even insult him.