China protests over South Korea's plan for US missile defences

[jammersat]

chinese must be somewhat naive , those the US deployed were patriot missiles and they are not going to fire at NK missiles that are eventually destined for iran , learn some history

i mean iran and US are somewhat friends now , almost as much as israel and the US has been for the past century

 

[yantong1980]

chinese must be somewhat naive , those the US deployed were patriot missiles and they are not going to fire at NK missiles that are eventually destined for iran , learn some history

Naive? That's your logic.

i mean iran and US are somewhat friends now , almost as much as israel and the US has been for the past century

chinese must be somewhat naive , those the US deployed were patriot missiles and they are not going to fire at NK missiles that are eventually destined for iran , learn some history

i mean iran and US are somewhat friends now , almost as much as israel and the US has been for the past century

US doesn't need a friend, she make friend with herself. What history? Learn to find some fact, not history.

 

[jammersat]

US doesn't need a friend, she make friend with herself. What history? Learn to find some fact, not history.

As we speak , the US is making an economic alliance with the EU , and you tell me the US needs no friends ? americans are some of the most clingy people on this planet , it's the vietnamese who need no friends

 

[Aepsilons]

i mean iran and US are somewhat friends now , almost as much as israel and the US has been for the past century

Not friends, i would really not call them friends since there are large groups in the US, specially Zionists and GOP who see Iran as an enemy. In fact it was Obama and more so the democrats who worked hard to find legislative loopholes in securing that deal with Iran. If not for Obama's pro-Iran stance, trust me, those sanctions would still be in place. In fact Republican presidential candidates in the US are running on a platform to reverse the lifting of sanctions on Iran, actually.

Iran's friends lie to her East: Russia, China, Japan et al....

 

[jammersat]

Not friends, i would really not call them friends since there are large groups in the US, specially Zionists and GOP who see Iran as an enemy. In fact it was Obama and more so the democrats who worked hard to find legislative loopholes in securing that deal with Iran. If not for Obama's pro-Iran stance, trust me, those sanctions would still be in place. In fact Republican presidential candidates in the US are running on a platform to reverse the lifting of sanctions on Iran, actually.

Iran's friends lie to her East: Russia, China, Japan et al....

maybe not friends , but with syria , turkey and russia , iran and america have become strategic partners , if you catch my drift

Not friends, i would really not call them friends since there are large groups in the US, specially Zionists and GOP who see Iran as an enemy. In fact it was Obama and more so the democrats who worked hard to find legislative loopholes in securing that deal with Iran. If not for Obama's pro-Iran stance, trust me, those sanctions would still be in place. In fact Republican presidential candidates in the US are running on a platform to reverse the lifting of sanctions on Iran, actually.

Iran's friends lie to her East: Russia, China, Japan et al....

This is how close iran and america have gotten :

Saudis and Russia agree oil output freeze, Iran still an obstacle

Saudis and Russia agree oil output freeze, Iran still an obstacle - Yahoo Finance

 

[Aepsilons]

maybe not friends , but with syria , turkey and russia , iran and america have become strategic partners , if you catch my drift

Yes. In fact the United States has actually started to be vocal on admonishing KSA on their religious exportation and influence on takfiri terrorism, actually. I suppose the US is now maintaining strategic ambiguity with Iran as a counterweight to KSA. As you have seen the unmitigated SAUDI domination of the Middle East. It did not lead to regional growth , but the growth of terrorism and the spread of fatalistic, backwardism. Testament and similar to Jahiliyyah....

 

[Scavenger]

I've been reading Korean appraisals of the situation , actually. It is published in Korean and Japanese. If youn want to take a look at it (if you can read Japanesr or Korean) I can send you an attachment via PM. If you cannot, then I can translate it for you. If you are interested. You will be quite surprised Korean intelligentsia's viewpoint.

You realize that what you are advocating - is basically China taking on the role of the proverbial 'big brother' in East Asia from the US now.
Which would by definition mean that Chinese actions in East Asia would be for their own gain and interests over all else....just like US actions in East Asia now.

You are assuming that China would be a more 'self-less' great power in East Asia vis-a-vis US. There is no evidence to support this. In fact, China is already showing the same symptoms that all great powers do - act in supreme self interest that is to the detriment of others in the region.

So what difference does it make - substituting one self serving power for another ?

 

[LowPost]

I've been reading Korean appraisals of the situation , actually. It is published in Korean and Japanese. If youn want to take a look at it (if you can read Japanesr or Korean) I can send you an attachment via PM. If you cannot, then I can translate it for you. If you are interested. You will be quite surprised Korean intelligentsia's viewpoint.

I'd prefer a translation, thanks in advance.

 

[gambit]

So what difference does it make - substituting one self serving power for another ?

The difference is race. It is better, as in less humiliating, if it is Asians-on-Asians.

It is sad that so many Asians, in and out of this forum, felled for the sweet pillow talk from the Chinese and the JPNese about this.

Otto von Bismarck on Poland's sovereignty...

"Restoring the Kingdom of Poland in any shape or form is tantamount to creating an ally for any enemy that chooses to attack us, smash those Poles till, losing all hope, they lie down and die; I have every sympathy for their situation, but if we wish to survive we have no choice but to wipe them out."

People and the media punditry have been taking turns misleading each other when they said that China is emulating the US regarding China's rise. Not true. China is following JPN's footsteps. Practically like that of walking in someone else's tracks in the snow.

China could not suppress anyone's sovereignty, but China could put such an economical stranglehold on Asia via control of the South China Seas, that all the major east Asian countries, including JPN, might as well bow their heads to Beijing. The goal of any major power in any political system is to be a hegemon, of which I explained back in post 77 why the US never was one, not even in the Western Hemisphere, IF it is a necessity and there is a possibility. The US could not be a true hegemon because the US is not a dictatorship. That is not to say that a functional democracy have any less care than a dictatorship about security. In terms of paranoia, all countries, large and small, have the same level of concern about their security. It is only the means that differs among them.

Unlike the US who have no unfriendly countries at our borders, China shares her borders with 14 countries and many of them are unfriendly, if not outright hostile. Off her coast, there are SKR and JPN. In reality, the US is less of a factor of security and paranoia than both SKR and JPN combined simply because American presence is not persistent. If the Filipinos can eject the US out of their country simply by legal fiat, so can the SKReans and the JPNese, but no one can eject the SKReans or the JPNese out of their own home soil. Not unless he want a bloody war on his hands. Currently, there are competing major powers in the East Asia region, but no great power. Not yet. Inside a political system, a great power can still be hurt, either by a single major power or an alliance of major powers. Unlike the US in our political system in the Western Hemisphere where we are secured against even an alliance of major powers, China is extremely vulnerable to threats from even a single regional major power.

China have the economic means to radically alter the military balance in the East Asia region and given the gross dissimilarities between the US and China in geopolitical terms, China have no choice but to follow what Imperial JPN did when JPN felt her security was at stake. Chinese and Imperial JPNese views of other Asian powers, large and small, is the same as that of Bismarck for Poland. China's immediate threat is not US, as the Chinese members here consistently misled the forum, but SKR and JPN. Unlike Canada and Mexico who really have no choice but to rely on US for their security, SKR and JPN can be assertive and make increasing independent decisions of the same issues, so Chinese protests about US military assistance to SKR -- this discussion -- is far less about US 'hegemony' than it is about SKRean assertiveness of their own security and paranoia.

The first victim of China's rise from being a competing major power to a great power will be Viet Nam and it is sad that some Viets on this forum were seduced by the same sweet pillow talk about Western imperialism and American 'hegemony'. Either SKR and JPN is too powerful even without US assistance. The first victim of Imperial JPN's ambition was Korea, first as protectorate then later complete annexation. Instead of 'smash those Poles', it was 'smash those Koreans'. With China as a great power, it will be 'smash those Viets'. Then SKR and JPN will meekly fall in line.

 

[hirobo2]

The difference is race. It is better, as in less humiliating, if it is Asians-on-Asians.

It is sad that so many Asians, in and out of this forum, felled for the sweet pillow talk from the Chinese and the JPNese about this.

Otto von Bismarck on Poland's sovereignty...

"Restoring the Kingdom of Poland in any shape or form is tantamount to creating an ally for any enemy that chooses to attack us, smash those Poles till, losing all hope, they lie down and die; I have every sympathy for their situation, but if we wish to survive we have no choice but to wipe them out."

People and the media punditry have been taking turns misleading each other when they said that China is emulating the US regarding China's rise. Not true. China is following JPN's footsteps. Practically like that of walking in someone else's tracks in the snow.

China could not suppress anyone's sovereignty, but China could put such an economical stranglehold on Asia via control of the South China Seas, that all the major east Asian countries, including JPN, might as well bow their heads to Beijing. The goal of any major power in any political system is to be a hegemon, of which I explained back in post 77 why the US never was one, not even in the Western Hemisphere, IF it is a necessity and there is a possibility. The US could not be a true hegemon because the US is not a dictatorship. That is not to say that a functional democracy have any less care than a dictatorship about security. In terms of paranoia, all countries, large and small, have the same level of concern about their security. It is only the means that differs among them.

Unlike the US who have no unfriendly countries at our borders, China shares her borders with 14 countries and many of them are unfriendly, if not outright hostile. Off her coast, there are SKR and JPN. In reality, the US is less of a factor of security and paranoia than both SKR and JPN combined simply because American presence is not persistent. If the Filipinos can eject the US out of their country simply by legal fiat, so can and SKReans and the JPNese, but no one can eject the SKReans or the JPNese out of their own home soil. Not unless he want a bloody war on his hands. Currently, there are competing major powers in the East Asia region, but no great power. Not yet. Inside a political system, a great power can still be hurt, either by a single major power or an alliance of major powers. Unlike the US in our political system in the Western Hemisphere where we are secured against even an alliance of major powers, China is extremely vulnerable to threats from even a single regional major power.

China have the economic means to radically alter the military balance in the East Asia region and given the gross dissimilarities between the US and China in geopolitical terms, China have no choice but to follow what Imperial JPN did when JPN felt her security was at stake. Chinese and Imperial JPNese views of other Asian powers, large and small, is the same as that of Bismarck for Poland. China's immediate threat is not US, as the Chinese members here consistently misled the forum, but SKR and JPN. Unlike Canada and Mexico who really have no choice but to rely on US for their security, SKR and JPN can be assertive and make increasing independent decisions of the same issues, so Chinese protests about US military assistance to SKR -- this discussion -- is far less about US 'hegemony' than it is about SKRean assertiveness of their own security and paranoia.

The first victim of China's rise from being a competing major power to a great power will be Viet Nam and it is sad that some Viets on this forum were seduced by the same sweet pillow talk about Western imperialism and American 'hegemony'. Either SKR and JPN is too powerful even without US assistance. The first victim of Imperial JPN's ambition was Korea, first as protectorate then later complete annexation. Instead of 'smash those Poles', it was 'smash those Koreans'. With China as a great power, it will be 'smash those Viets'. Then SKR and JPN will meekly fall in line.

Whoa. That is the most profound, reality-based analysis I've read on this site. Congrats. Me like.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Let me just summarize what @Nihonjin1051 said to you in a few words.

In his word, this is the true Korean Leader the Korean People should embrace

View attachment 294166

Because he have guts to stand up to the Western Imperialist over all these year and do not bow down to the US like the Southern Counterpart.

And this is the true Korean should be because they embrace the spirit of Joseon (by the way, I think he spelled Joseon wrong, maybe that's how it spell in Japanese? I don't know)

View attachment 294167

View attachment 294169


and people that live like this is not a true Korean,

View attachment 294168

because they were all bowed down and clouded to the western imperialist.

Can I get anymore clearer?

Well, its no surprise to me though. There several people out there (mostly from the developing world, leftists, ultra nationalists etc) who hold a rather bizarre/weird view. To them any country/regime is righteous as long as they oppose western powers. lol You can bet your life that even if Saudi Arabia was to suddenly become hostile to the west today, then these same people who today criticize Saudi Arabia will suddenly start praising Riyadh and rejecting any news of human rights abuses or whatever in KSA as western propaganda(the way they regard Iran today just because Tehran seems to be anti western). In short , as long as you seem to be anti western then you get a free pass for every action you take. That is their weird policy.

So yes agree that Japan simply invaded, raped/killed millions of Chinese, Korea,Vietnam etc simply because Japan was trying to free it's Asian subjects from alien western powers. All the Chinese and Koreans today who despise and hate Japan more than any other country are simply brainwashed by western propaganda.

In fact south Koreans must be even more brainwashed by western propaganda, since they finally accepted to grant the U.S access for this missile defence system after they got tired of N.Korea's constant nuclear threats.

 

[libertycall]

My own view for what it's worth is that most modern Japanese do not have an imperialist mindset. Generally, they are not interested in imposing their views on others. Of course there are some bad aspects in nearly every country's past, but they should only be of relevance if they show themselves as developing in the future.

I can't see Japan wanting to invade and occupy any of the neighbors in the region. There is a danger that Japan because of American pressure will be forced into taking part in American adventures, leading to a bad perception among other Asian countries, however I'm not sure that Japan will be taking a large enough role in such matters for its reputation to suffer.

As for South Korea, while people may have some negative perceptions of evangelicals from their country entering other countries under false pretenses, it doesn't have any negative perception past or present.

Oh and while doing some research on Asian history, it seems my Yuezhi ancestors once traded with Korea. Imagine, my ancestors lived in Gansu province in China but were trading with Korea thousands of years ago That should be the future.

 

[jhungary]

Well, its no surprise to me though. There several people out there (mostly from the developing world, leftists, ultra nationalists etc) who hold a rather bizarre/weird view. To them any country/regime is righteous as long as they oppose western powers. lol You can bet your life that even if Saudi Arabia was to suddenly become hostile to the west today, then these same people who today criticize Saudi Arabia will suddenly start praising Riyadh and rejecting any news of human rights abuses or whatever in KSA as western propaganda(the way they regard Iran today just because Tehran seems to be anti western). In short , as long as you seem to be anti western then you get a free pass for every action you take. That is their weird policy.

So yes agree that Japan simply invaded, raped/killed millions of Chinese, Korea,Vietnam etc simply because Japan was trying to free it's Asian subjects from alien western powers. All the Chinese and Koreans today who despise and hate Japan more than any other country are simply brainwashed by western propaganda.

In fact south Koreans must be even more brainwashed by western propaganda, since they finally accepted to grant the U.S access for this missile defence system after they got tired of N.Korea's constant nuclear threats.

All I can say is, there are no OBJECTIVE in this world, we were all being brainwashed one way or another.

The different is just that I choose to be brainwashed in a 4 bedroom house having 3 meals a day and go out once a week have fun and have some drinks with my friend and play some softball or baseball (I know it's lame) with others.

While these people advocating these idea preferred to be brainwashed in some huts that where they have problem having even 1 meal and there are no such things as entertainment.

What is more righteous? God's know.

 

[Aepsilons]

Interesting read.

 

[TaiShang]

According to “2040 Korea Unification Vision Report,” if South and North are able to establish a joint economic system and raise the national income of North Koreans to $10,000 per person by implementing President Park’s “trust process” and facilitating greater inter-Korean exchanges and cooperation, it would then be possible to achieve peaceful unification.

Like anticipated, economic cooperation and development-oriented unification, which is preferable over forced unification through regime change or destabilizing actions. Putting economic integration as the initial step for further institutionalization in other areas is not particularly an Asian invention, but, at the moment, it is the most viable in the Asian context.

The head of the Sejong Institute, Song Dae Sung told Daily NK, “There is some meaning in the fact that a blueprint for unification has been issued, and that it prioritizes economic integration over political and ideological unification, which could incite social unrest.”

Very elegantly put and it is great to see that South Korean academic community is cognizant of the fact. The above observation reflects a clear departure from the US' securitized and destabilizing policies.

You are assuming that China would be a more 'self-less' great power in East Asia vis-a-vis US. There is no evidence to support this.

There is an entire history to support it. We teach and learn it very early in school.