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China poses potential obstacle to reunification of Koreas: U.S. Congress re

China wasn't in a position to invade India throught most of history , due to 2 facts.
1) Tibet being not under firm control of Chinese empires
2) Himalayas

No Himalayas near Myanmar, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Philippines, Korea and Japan right? China had naval force for a long time and could travel far away sending troops if China wanted to invade these countries. When the Mongolians were ruling China they did invade Korea but failed to occupy Japan. The only country Chinese invaded was Vietnam period, so don't come up with these lousy excuses that Himalaya was the reason why Chinese wasn't capable of invading India. Check the map of the Yuan Dynasty and you can see Tibet was under the Mongol empire. Mongol invasions of Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So don't give me some crap that China was in no position to go after India or other Asian countries.

UK alone was enough to defeat India and rule your people, the West needed help from all their allies to defeat Chinese troops but never ruled China in history.
 
No Himalayas near Myanmar, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Philippines, Korea and Japan right? China had naval force for a long time and could travel far away sending troops if China wanted to invade these countries. When the Mongolians were ruling China they did invade Korea but failed to occupy Japan. The only country Chinese invaded was Vietnam period, so don't come up with these lousy excuses that Himalaya was the reason why Chinese wasn't capable of invading India. Check the map of the Yuan Dynasty and you can see Tibet was under the Mongol empire. Mongol invasions of Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So don't give me some crap that China was in no position to go after India or other Asian countries.

UK alone was enough to defeat India and rule your people, the West needed help from all their allies to defeat Chinese troops but never ruled China in history
.

whatsoever...but nanking happened only in China...guess, it was worst than the British rule that we underwent!!
@Chinese - Real loosers, always stick to two or three things in all threads and keep pushing them....get life and get to the reality....in today's political landscape, China is the biggest threat to the most number of countries and to more than 1/3 of the worlds population......China has to demise, by their internal issues or by global action!
 
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whatsoever...but nanking happened only in China...guess, it was worst than the British rule that we underwent!!

Just shows that Japanese are much worse than what the Nazi did to the Jews. Indians should stop making excuses that China wanted to invade India. I have shown historical facts and all you people do is making stories up. Can you refute what i said was false? All these countries don't have a himalaya in between, the Mongolians were ruthless and wanted to expand their empire but looking at other Dynasties did Chinese ever invade India or all the countries i just mentioned? Even Okinawa was never invaded by China and one day Japan just send troops to annex it.
I suggest you to shut up if you can't refute what i said are all lies.
 
No Himalayas near Myanmar, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, Philippines, Korea and Japan right?

We are discussing India here.

China had naval force for a long time and could travel far away sending troops if China wanted to invade these countries.

Chinese naval forces did invade Sri Lanka

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When the Mongolians were ruling China they did invade Korea but failed to occupy Japan. The only country Chinese invaded was Vietnam period, so don't come up with these lousy excuses that Himalaya was the reason why Chinese wasn't capable of invading India.

Its no excuse challenging your mentality, its simple basic logic.


Check the map of the Yuan Dynasty and you can see Tibet was under the Mongol empire. Mongol invasions of Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So don't give me some crap that China was in no position to go after India or other Asian countries.

Here we go again :lol:

Here is list of Chinese dynasties by their territories,

Territories_of_Dynasties_in_China.gif



with the exception of Yuan and Qing Dynasties none held firm control over Tibet, which was natural buffer state.

No invasions towards India during the Yuan dynasty , however not the same under Qing Dynasty.

Sino-Nepalese_War

Sino-Burmese_War

Sino-Sikh_War

Of course the Sino-Sikh_War, the Indians were at fault.

the West needed help from all their allies to defeat Chinese troops but never ruled China in history.

The 8-nation alliance was not about help, but each nation for itself, unless you have proof that UK or France etc, requested assistance.

China_imperialism_cartoon.jpg


However India like colonization was not possible in China's case due to its proximity to Russia and Japan.

British feared Russian proximity, hence the Great game, Anglo-Afghan wars and British expedition to Tibet, in order to secure buffers against Russian empire
 
LOL with the Sino-Sikh War you proved that India had plans to invade China.

Sino-Nepalese War (Chinese: 平定廓爾喀, pacification of Gorkha) was an invasion of Tibet by Nepal from 1788-1792. The war was initially fought between Nepalese and Tibetan army over trade dispute related to a long standing problem of coins of bad alloy struck by Nepal for Tibet. However, the initial Nepalese success in subduing the Tibetans, who were under the suzerainty of China, escalated the war by involving the Chinese imperial force. The Nepalese were eventually driven out from all the occupied territories and were forced to sign a peace treaty.

Doesn't look like China started the war right?
 
I believe our Malaysian friend JSCh here just proved our point with reliable articles regarding the effects of sanctions coming from US and EU and how this have effected Iran and North Korea. War veterans here are blind and think they know a lot about politics, oh i forgot there's one among these veterans who has a so called politics degree from US and still thinks these sanctions have no impact on these 2 "evil" countries. I'd like to see some reliable articles with facts coming from them how sanctions have no impact at all if they can find it that is.
Who said those trade restrictions have no effects? Who said that? :lol:

The intellectually dishonest implication here is that without US, no trade can occur at all.

INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST.

The best example is during the Cold War, an era before you were borned. Communist countries were absolutely free to trade with and aid each other. And yet the common theme among them was long lines for simple items like bread and toilet paper. You mean to tell everyone here that the technology to bake bread and make toilet papers were denied the communist bloc?

I suggest some real reading for you, young pup...

Mig Pilot: The Final Escape of Lt. Belenko: John Barron: 9780380538683: Amazon.com: Books

No one outside of the Politburo is a more privileged person than a MIG pilot. Not even an accomplished surgeon who save lives daily or a mathematician who works to discover the underlying laws of the universe. And yet Belenko was astonished to see expiration date on meat packages and abundance of paper products in US markets. At one point he was utterly convinced that New York City was nothing but a gigantic CIA front.

Look at your computer and tell everyone how many parts are from North Korea and tell us that it is possible for unification and that the US is the obstacle. The reality is that the more computer parts are found to be from China, the more obvious it is that the real obstacle to Korea unification is -- China.
 
Sure there is, they can invade North Korea and install a new dictator, or use less obvious means. China does have a large military presence stationed on the border after all. China's policy is in many ways the only roadblock between reunification of the Korean peninsula under a prosperous South Korean government. Its Hubris and Paranoia are the reasons.

No! Its not Hubris nor Paranoia. From day one its has always been about maintaining a peaceful and stable border on China’s North East. So that China can get along with its development to catch up with the West. If you follow the news in the Asia, China foreign policy has always been all about maintaining peace and stability.
If Korea unify peacefully there is nothing China can do. China would welcome peaceful unification. Once a peace treaty is signed there is no more need for any US base in Korea. Besides China probably has better diplomatic and trade relationship with the South then with North.
On the other hand. Unites States wants nothing more than Unification by force. Just like so many examples like Iraq, A’stan, Libya, Iran, Syria etc. That is why US will never sign a peace treaty with the North.

It is hard to list the ways in which North Korea does not conform to the standard definition of a dystopian society, in which case yes, it is a very distasteful government. That is hardly deniable, and if it is 'sick' to consider the North Korean government a blight on the face of the earth for all the ills it has very deliberately and with forethought brought on the region, and on its own people directly through its own actions, then we, and most of the region, excluding China, are 'sick'.

Yes North Korea government are despicable especially Kim Jung Il. I do not deny it. But in any war, the people that suffer the most will be the Koreans themselves. Seoul will be destroyed. China will also be affected. Therefore China’s policy on N Korea is still the most pragmatic. Most South Korean would agree. Roh Moo-hyun sunshine policy is not much different from China’s policy.

China has not tried to stop North Korea from attempting nuclear weapons tests, nor did China try to stop the North Korean invasion of South Korea, and in fact tried to invade South Korea along with the remaining North Korean troops after North Korea failed alone. It failed. You flat out lie, and we know China doesn't want North Korea to reunite with South Korea under its democratic government. Its sickening.

He he he. It is a fact based on declassified Soviet documents that China was not interested in another war on their NE borders. After all China was in the process of reuniting Taiwan. It was Stalin that gave N Korea the approval that N Korea did not even tell China. Then again you seems to get your “facts” from Western Mainstream Media. Too bad.

North Korea has been at war with South Korea since the 1950's, the policies of the most current South Korean president was never going to change that. North Korea has also historically been at odds with the United States since it INVADED SOUTH KOREA backed by China and the Soviet Union, after which it was driven back to its borders. It never agreed to peace. Since then its government has remained hostile to South Korea and conducted numerous attacks on the South Korean people, up to and including an attempted assassination of the South Korean president and is still attempting such attacks today. It has been a threat to our allies in the region throughout the cold war and beyond. It is also an unspeakable blight to the region, and its own people as i've elaborated.


Why US do not want to sign a peace treaty with N Korea. Why US did not want to remove N Korea from the axis of evil. N Korea nuclear bomb IS the results of US regime change policy. Again and again. Where the hell do you get your facts ? EVERY time when the North and South were close to a treaty, Either US (Dick Cheney) or Japan would sabotage it.

Yea, we want to change it.

By war yes US do. AT WHAT COST TO KOREA.

Well when it walks like a duck, Quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it is usually a duck. :rolleyes:

What more proof do we need here. The more you read Mainstream western media. The more stupid you become.
 
Juche - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Juche Idea, sometimes spelled Chuch'e (Chosŏn'gŭl: 주체; Hancha: 主體; Korean pronunciation: [tɕutɕʰe]), is a political thesis of Kim Il-sung which says that the Korean masses are the masters of the country's development. From the 1950s to the 1970s, Kim and other party theorists such as Hwang Jang-yop elaborated the Juche Idea into a set of principles that the government uses to justify its policy decisions. Among these are a strong military posture and reliance on Korean national resources. The name comes from juche, the Korean translation for the philosophical and Marxist term “subject”,[1] also meaning “main body” or “mainstream”, and is sometimes translated in North Korean sources as “independent stand” or “spirit of self-reliance”. It has also been interpreted as “always putting Korean things first”.[2]:414 According to Kim Il-sung, the Juche Idea is based on the belief that “man is the master of everything and decides everything”.
Kim Il-sung outlined the three fundamental principles of Juche in his April 14, 1965, speech "On Socialist Construction and the South Korean Revolution in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea":

Political independence (Chosŏn'gŭl: 자주; Hancha: 自主; MR: chachu; RR: chaju)
Economic self-sustenance (Chosŏn'gŭl: 자립; Hancha: 自立; MR: charip; RR: charip)
Self-reliance in defence (Chosŏn'gŭl: 자위; Hancha: 自衛; MR: cha'i; RR: chawi)
The North Korean believe fiercely in their own independence. China also has a policy of non-interference. Therefore if North Korean want to unify with South Korea, there is really nothing politically that China can do to stop it beside cutting aids.
China and North Korea has the following treaty Sino-North Korean Mutual Aid and Cooperation Friendship Treaty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Sino-North Korean Mutual Aid and Cooperation Friendship Treaty was a treaty signed on July 11, 1961 between North Korea and the People's Republic of China.
Signing

The treaty was signed in Beijing and came into effect on September 10 of the same year.[1][2] Premier of the People's Republic of China Zhou Enlai and President of North Korea Kim Il-sung signed for their respective countries.[3] The treaty generally promoted peaceful cooperation in the areas of culture, economics, technology and other social benefits between the two nations.[3] Specifically, Article 2 of the treaty declares the two nations guarantee to adopt immediately all necessary measures to oppose any country or coalition of countries that might attack either nation.[4]
The treaty is in effect and automatically renews every 20 years. It has renewed in 1981 and 2001.[3] The most recent renewal will remain in effect until the year 2021.[5]
U.S. and South Korea has the Avalon Project - Mutual Defense Treaty Between the United States and the Republic of Korea; October 1, 1953
Mutual Defense Treaty Between the United States and the Republic of Korea; October 1, 1953(1)

The Parties to this Treaty,

Reaffirming their desire to live in peace with all peoples and an governments, and desiring to strengthen the fabric of peace in the Pacific area,

Desiring to declare publicly and formally their common determination to defend themselves against external armed attack so that no potential aggressor could be under the illusion that either of them stands alone in the Pacific area,

Desiring further to strengthen their efforts for collective defense for the preservation of peace and security pending the development of a more comprehensive and effective system of regional security in the Pacific area,

Have agreed as follows:
ARTICLE I

The Parties undertake to settle any international disputes in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations, or obligations assumed by any Party toward the United Nations.
ARTICLE II

The Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of either of them, the political independence or security of either of the Parties is threatened by external armed attack. Separately and jointly, by self help and mutual aid, the Parties will maintain and develop appropriate means to deter armed attack and will take suitable measures in consultation and agreement to implement this Treaty and to further its purposes.

ARTICLE III

Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific area on either of the Parties in territories now under their respective administrative control, or hereafter recognized by one of the Parties as lawfully brought under the administrative control of the other, would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional processes.
ARTICLE IV

The Republic of Korea grants, and the United States of America accepts, the right to dispose United States land, air and sea forces in and about the territory of the Republic of Korea as determined by mutual agreement.

ARTICLE V

This Treaty shall be ratified by the United States of America and the Republic of Korea in accordance with their respective constitutional processes and will come into force when instruments of ratification thereof have been exchanged by them at Washington.(2)
ARTICLE VI

This Treaty shall remain in force indefinitely. Either Party may terminate it one year after notice has been given to the other Party.


IN WITNESS WHEREOF the undersigned Plenipotentiaries have signed this Treaty.

DONE in duplicate at Washington, in the English and Korean languages, this first day of October 1953.
UNDERSTANDING OF THE UNITED STATES (3)

[The United States Senate gave its advice and consent to the ratification of the treaty subject to the following understanding:]

It is the understanding of the United States that neither party is obligated, under Article III of the above Treaty, to come to the aid of the other except in case of an external armed attack against such party; nor shall anything in the present Treaty be construed as requiring the United States to give assistance to Korea except in the event of an armed attack against territory which has been recognized by the United States as lawfully brought under the administrative control of the Republic of Korea.

[The United States communicated the text of the understanding to the Republic of Korea in a note of January 28, 1954, acknowledged by the Republic of Korea in a note of February 1, 1954. The text of the understanding was included in the President's proclamation of November 17, 1954.]

(1) TIAS 3097, 5 UST 23602376. Ratification advised by the Senate Jan. 26, 1954, and ratified by the President Feb. 5, 1954, subject to an understanding; entered into force Nov. 17, 1954. Back

(2) Ratifications were exchanged Nov. 17, 1954. Back

(3) TIAS 3097. Back
 
I think it is generally accepted that U.S. has a stronger hold on South Korea than China on North Korea both militarily and politically. In order for North Korea to ease tension and work out a mutual agreement on reunification with South Korea, a treaty with South Korea alone is not enough. It is therefore necessary for North Korea to have a peace or mutual non-aggression treaty with U.S. and indeed North Korea has repeatedly calling for this.
Why then the U.S. has always been reluctant to do this?
American Committee
Without North Korea as an enemy, the Pentagon could not justify continued military and economic control of South Korea. When the new president of South Korea, Kim Dae Jung, came to the United State in June 1998 to win what the New York Times reported as a more flexible stance [in dealing with North Korea], he made the same argument the Clinton administration has made about China: that the best way [to change North Korea] is not to isolate it and punish it with sanctions but, to build economic and diplomatic ties that draw it out into international playing field.

Kim's proposal, however, was met with a cool reception not only from the Pentagon but from Congress.

The Defense Monitor, published by the Center for Defense Information, which is headed by retired military and naval officers, has long held a view similar to Kim. In January 1994 it concluded:

The best system is to offer to withdraw U.S military forces from South Korea in exchange for North Korean abandonment of any nuclear weapons development and agreement to permit unimpeded international inspection to verify the agreement... Establishing diplomatic and economic ties would also encourage a reduction on Cold War hostility.

If it wanted to, the United States could make peace, establish diplomatic relations, and permit hands-on news reporting at any time. Little known as the fact that the United States violated the armistice agreement of July 27, 1953 that ended the Korean War. The armistice provides that

within three months after the Agreement is signed and effective, a political conference of a higher level of both sides be held by representatives appointed respectively to settle through negotiations the questions of the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Korea, the peaceful settlement of the Korean question.

The argument, signed by U.S. Army General Mark W. Clark for the United Nations and the United States, is still in force, since the United States, has never been willing to end the armistice with a peace treaty. As recently as April 28,1994, North Korea called on the United States to "replace the Korean Armistice with a peace treaty" instead of continuing the military confrontation.
The armistice also states that the respective military commanders shall

case introduction into Korea of reinforcing combat aircraft, armored vehicles, weapons and ammunition; provided however that combat aircraft, armored vehicles, weapons and ammunition which are destroyed, damaged, worn out or used up during the period of the armistice may be replaced on the basis piece for piece of the same effectiveness and the same type.

The United States clearly violated that agreement with introduction of Patriot missiles into South Korea by presidential order on March 21,1994, and quite likely North Korea to develop missiles of its own. North Korea also claims there have been many other violations, including the introduction of nuclear weapons years ago, the introduction of a squadron of Apache helicopters, and the "U.S. naval forces which have clustered" around North Korea.

An imposed state of hostility toward North Korea is in fact evident in a series of military and economic treaties between the United States and South Korea. The Mutual Defense Treaty of October 1, 1953, was designed to provide the United States with an indefinite base for military operations in the north Pacific and to perpetuate a state of war between North Korea and U.S.-occupied South Korea.

Signed immediately after the Korean War, the treaty states that "an armed attack in the Pacific area on either of the Parties in territories now under their respective control" Article Ⅳ continues: "The Republic of [South] Korea grants and the United States of America accepts, the right to dispose United States land, air and sea forces on and about the territory of the Republic of Korea as determined by mutual agreement." And the countries' fate is sealed in Article Ⅳ: "This treaty shall remain in force indefinitely." There must be a one-year notice of any termination.

The Mutual Defense Treaty was followed by the Agreed Minutes of November 17, 1954, which specifically obligate South Korea to place its "forces under the operational control of the United Nations Command." This is a euphemism for U.S. control, since there are no other U.N. forces in Korea's own army, navy, air force, and reserves.

Another of the Agreed Nineties supplements U.S. military control. "Measures for an Effective Economic Program" sets the value of the Korean Hwan at 180 to the dollar and states that any imports "not furnished by the United States...will be procured wherever in non-communist countries goods of the required quality can be obtained at the best price." This provision assures no trade with North Korea, China, or Cuba. The setting of the rate of 180 Hwan to a dollar in effect got Korea-statoned U.S. armed forces a substantial subsidy in buying Korean goods, including coal and fertilizer.

On December 13, 1991, North and South Korea signed a nonaggression agreement in which both stated they "shall not interfered in the internal affairs of the other" and "shall refrain from all acts aimed at destroying and overthrowing the other side." They agreed to "discontinue confrontations and competition" and to cooperate in "joint development of resource."

A month later, North Korea signed an agreement permitting the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to inspect its nuclear facilities. Between May 1992 and January 26, 1993, there were six such inspections.

In spite of this thaw in North-South relations, however, the Pentagon conducted Team Spirit 1993, one of a series of Team Spirit war exercises that have been used over the years to steadily harass North Korea. Team Spirit 1993 lasted more than a month and involved B-1 bombers and warships capable of nuclear strikes as well as more than 200,000 soldiers who practiced an invasion.

As a result of this obvious combined U.S. and South Korean history, North Korea announced its decision to withdraw from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and rejected IAEA inspections of its military sites. According to the November 20,1993, People's Korea - a Tokyo based journal edited by Koreans living Japan and the chief source of official news from and unofficial news from and about North Korea - North Korea asked to inspect U.S. nuclear weapons and bases in South Korea, saying:

If we submissively accept an unjust inspection by the IAEA it would be to legitimize the espionage of the United States, a belligerent party vis-a-vis the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and lead to the beginning of the full exposure of all our military installations.
 
There is quite a misunderstanding on the Chinese side.

The ROK will invade North Korea whenever the opportunity arises, such as a mass popular revolt, a regime collapse, etc. This is non-negotiable with anyone. The only potential obstacle China can present is if it decides to intervene and invade North Korea to block the ROK advances.

The primary combatant of the ROK military the last time was the PLA, and the anticipated primary combatant this time around is the PLA once again. The war manual anticipates the PLA invasion of North Korea and all plans are drawn up accordingly. This is what the Jeju Naval base is for, the ROK and the US Navy will carry out a naval blockade of the Yellow Sea to screw Chinese economy should China intervene.

So China has two choices; go to war with the ROK over North Korea and trigger that automatic naval blockade that will ruin Chinese economy in addition to the loss of half a million troops, or try to negotiate for terms it wants, like no US bases in what was formerly North Korea.
 
There is quite a misunderstanding on the Chinese side.

The ROK will invade North Korea whenever the opportunity arises, such as a mass popular revolt, a regime collapse, etc. This is non-negotiable with anyone. The only potential obstacle China can present is if it decides to intervene and invade North Korea to block the ROK advances.

The primary combatant of the ROK military the last time was the PLA, and the anticipated primary combatant this time around is the PLA once again. The war manual anticipates the PLA invasion of North Korea and all plans are drawn up accordingly. This is what the Jeju Naval base is for, the ROK and the US Navy will carry out a naval blockade of the Yellow Sea to screw Chinese economy should China intervene.

So China has two choices; go to war with the ROK over North Korea and trigger that automatic naval blockade that will ruin Chinese economy in addition to the loss of half a million troops, or try to negotiate for terms it wants, like no US bases in what was formerly North Korea.
Keep begging..... we like having two Koreas :coffee:
 
Koreans don't have an inferiority complex. It's just straight up inferiority.
 

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