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China-Pakistan getting together while Afghanistan becomes hub for ISI: Where does India stand?

pakistani342

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Seema Sirohi penns a letter from DC - She has such a hatred for Pakistan and love for sufi music she might even be an Afghan -- lol.

She is married to a retired US Marine (or other service member) - so her opinion should be listed to.

I disagree with her conclusion - I think Manmohan jee was smart not to get caught up in the Afghan conundrum - alas if only Pakistanis had that as a choice.

Article here, excerpts below:

Is India being increasingly cut out of Afghanistan despite years of sustained engagement and considerable investment in the war-torn country? Is it the way the cookie crumbles?

China is moving in and the Americans are moving out while the British mess around the edges. The big gamer and gainer is Pakistan and its military intelligence establishment.

Washington appears content to let things play out — it’s just waiting to put the shutters down and come home. If it means outsourcing the “peace process” to China, the power with a “plan” for everything, so be it. If it means Pakistan’s ISI determines the state and pace of play, so be it.

...

That’s bad news for India for obvious reasons. Two hostile neighbours are getting together to exclude India as Afghanistan becomes a semi-unfriendly hub for ISI activities. This is happening with active compliance of President Ashraf Ghani, a US favourite.

...

The dialogue was to begin in earnest at the end of 2013 but Devyani Khobragade managed to get arrested in New York leading to a downward spiral in relations. US officials were in New Delhi for talks but no one met them. But why no attempt was made later to revive the dialogue is unclear.

Now we are at a stage where there is obvious discomfort — even anger — in New Delhi at developments in Afghanistan. Washington and London are seen as ceding space to China and Pakistan.

...

India is deeply and understandably chagrined at the unusual agreement between the Afghan National Directorate of Security (NDS) and Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), which dangerously extends Islamabad’s reach beyond its already unhealthy influence in the region.


The ISI will now train and equip NDS operatives, have access to detained militants in Afghanistan and generally call the shots. The agreement reportedly bars any cooperation with “hostile foreign agencies” — obviously a reference to Indian intelligence agencies.

...

But India has to ask also itself why this space was created. US and British officials routinely say: why didn’t New Delhi “step up to the plate”? There is no good answer. For them it’s either you defeat the Taliban (which didn’t happen largely because of Pakistani deceptions) or you make peace with them.

...

You can be sure the trainees will be indoctrinated in the ISI worldview.
 
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India doesn't need and shouldn't interfere in AFG...Too many reasons for them not to....
 
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I'm not sure if you were trying to make a point and if so what was it?

to point was according to your post..
India being increasingly cut out of Afghanistan despite years of sustained engagement and considerable investment in the war-torn country? Is it the way the cookie crumbles?

ISI's Hub....

and Pakistan's RAW Fear..there is possibly no involvement in Afghanistan in the first place.. :rofl: Conspiracy theories at best.

India doesn't need

that is the only reason.possibly thats why India's main contribution in Afghanistan is School,Road,Healthcare and Food Donation and not Arms Donation and Funding..we do train ANA,but thats only few hundreds of them.

Pakistan is a la la land.They justified their acts against Afghanistan using the words "RAW" and "India"..they themselves defending from TTP,yet here people cheering for "AF Taliban"..No wonder they're in such sorry state.

by the way....

It is Pakistan which is reconciling between Talibans and Afghanistan.its a two edged Knife.Talibans will not hold talks as Ghani signed US-Afghanistan Troops Agreement.And Afghanistan will not let it go.and it'll remain a stalemate for now.
 
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to point was according to your post..


ISI's Hub....

and Pakistan's RAW Fear..there is possibly no involvement in Afghanistan in the first place.. :rofl: Conspiracy theories at best.

I'm still sure what you are trying to say -- the article is written by Seema Sirohi -- you do know she's one of the most senior Indian foreign policy correspondents ? so again I'm not sure what your point is?
 
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Seema Sirohi penns a letter from DC - She has such a hatred for Pakistan and love for sufi music she might even be an Afghan -- lol.

She is married to a retired US Marine (or other service member) - so her opinion should be listed to.

I disagree with her conclusion - I think Manmohan jee was smart not to get caught up in the Afghan conundrum - alas if only Pakistanis had that as a choice.

Article here, excerpts below:

Is India being increasingly cut out of Afghanistan despite years of sustained engagement and considerable investment in the war-torn country? Is it the way the cookie crumbles?

China is moving in and the Americans are moving out while the British mess around the edges. The big gamer and gainer is Pakistan and its military intelligence establishment.

Washington appears content to let things play out — it’s just waiting to put the shutters down and come home. If it means outsourcing the “peace process” to China, the power with a “plan” for everything, so be it. If it means Pakistan’s ISI determines the state and pace of play, so be it.

...

That’s bad news for India for obvious reasons. Two hostile neighbours are getting together to exclude India as Afghanistan becomes a semi-unfriendly hub for ISI activities. This is happening with active compliance of President Ashraf Ghani, a US favourite.

...

The dialogue was to begin in earnest at the end of 2013 but Devyani Khobragade managed to get arrested in New York leading to a downward spiral in relations. US officials were in New Delhi for talks but no one met them. But why no attempt was made later to revive the dialogue is unclear.

Now we are at a stage where there is obvious discomfort — even anger — in New Delhi at developments in Afghanistan. Washington and London are seen as ceding space to China and Pakistan.

...

India is deeply and understandably chagrined at the unusual agreement between the Afghan National Directorate of Security (NDS) and Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), which dangerously extends Islamabad’s reach beyond its already unhealthy influence in the region.


The ISI will now train and equip NDS operatives, have access to detained militants in Afghanistan and generally call the shots. The agreement reportedly bars any cooperation with “hostile foreign agencies” — obviously a reference to Indian intelligence agencies.

...

But India has to ask also itself why this space was created. US and British officials routinely say: why didn’t New Delhi “step up to the plate”? There is no good answer. For them it’s either you defeat the Taliban (which didn’t happen largely because of Pakistani deceptions) or you make peace with them.

...

You can be sure the trainees will be indoctrinated in the ISI worldview.

No one can understand why the Afghan president has gone against the wishes of his own people in rewarding Pakistan, the country that openly shelters an Afghan government-in-exile.

The writer appears to be overlooking the fact that Pakistan is also a shelter for the exodus of Afghan refugees who have fled a state that is torn by war.

I may add that Ghani understands that siding with India will not lead to any additional benefit to Afghanistan, particularly not as an outpost bordering China, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan (however small the borders may be) which are allied nations to Pakistan and regional stakeholders. Add to this Pakistan with whom the Afghans not only share their single longest border, that they have with any country in the region, but also share a greater degree of genetic and cultural similarities than they do with the extra-regional invader, India.

Furthermore if history has taught the subcontinent anything, it is that in this politically volatile region rife with the clandestine operations of premier state-operated spy agencies, only those countries (or parts thereof) are safe from the threat of secession that are joined geographically. Pakistan could not hold onto Bangladesh because of a geographical divide in the form of Indian territory and similarly Ghani understands that India can not hold onto Afghanistan because of the geographical divide in the form of the Pakistani territories.

Resultantly Ghani is correct in concluding that Pakistan is in a position where it simply cannot be overlooked. Additionally, based on the foregoing, Afghanistan cannot afford to make sworn enemies with Pakistan by seeking to cooperate with countries who are hostile to Pakistan.

The zero-sum game being that if Afghanistan is to stabilize itself, it would have to cooperate with Pakistan, and there is more benefit in that than there is in being a geographic test-subject for India. This the Afghan people don't understand, because they have been repeatedly led to believe Pakistan is sponsoring terrorism in the region. That is incorrect. It is America, who is now sponsoring terrorism in the middle east by seeking the removal of Bashar Al-Assad through the ISIS, that was sponsoring terrorism in this region during the Cold War. Pakistan was merely the scapegoat.

Furthermore the situation deteriorated even further after 9/11 when the combatants entrenched themselves in the local populace in Pakistan's tribal regions and sought to carve out their own state based on a militant interpretation of Shariat. Pakistan was guilty for being complacent and for not taking action against them. But that has changed now.

Pakistan is taking back the tribal regions as we speak. Ghani sees this and because of his privileged background is not hampered by the blind hatred that the Afghan commoner harbours. If the terrorist tribal safe-havens, which concern Afghanistan, are removed, Afghanistan has no remaining dispute with Pakistan other than the Durand Line, which to my personal belief is a non-issue. Furthermore Pakistan's collective designs to connect and stabilize Central Asia alongside China are an attractive opportunity which Ghani does not want Afghanistan to miss.

In summation, the picture that emerges is that Pakistan is not the antagonist but rather the well-wisher who too is a victim. Surely a hostile state could never be home to more than 1.3 million Afghan nationals.
 
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I'm still sure what you are trying to say -- the article is written by Seema Sirohi -- you do know she's one of the most senior Indian foreign policy correspondents ? so again I'm not sure what your point is?
to point was according to your post..

What happened Griffin -- no more braying and rolling on the floor ?
 
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The blog is quite funny and it did made Pakistanis jump up and down. First China is yet to make an large scale investment in Afg. Secondly Afghan President still accuse Pakistan of terrorism.

Nothing has happened, and yet some clowns jump as everything "favourable" has happened. It would not be easy to make ISI operational in Pakistan. International Diplomacy and security is not a switch . You take time to change stance.
 
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:lol:
Keep whining!!
It is journalist like her who will never let things improve, if relations get better how will these scums earn there bread? and we too have a few of these here in Pakistan.

I loved the article however, "Is it the way the cookie crumbles?" , "Two hostile neighbours are getting together to exclude India as Afghanistan becomes a semi-unfriendly hub for ISI activities", Specially loved the" dangerously extends Islamabad’s reach beyond its already unhealthy influence in the region" part :rofl: and "For them it’s either you defeat the Taliban (which didn’t happen largely because of Pakistani deceptions)" :lol:

Judging bu her though process, she may had also have added a few abusive foul language words that might have been edited. :lol: Poor Soul! i feel sorry for you lady

The blog is quite funny and it did made Pakistanis jump up and down. First China is yet to make an large scale investment in Afg. Secondly Afghan President still accuse Pakistan of terrorism.

Nothing has happened, and yet some clowns jump as everything "favourable" has happened. It would not be easy to make ISI operational in Pakistan. International Diplomacy and security is not a switch . You take time to change stance.
not some, I have watched a lots of CLOWNS jumping recently whenever any thing slightly favorable to Pakistan happens. THIS journo is a prime example :lol:
 
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:lol:
Keep whining!!
It is journalist like her who will never let things improve, if relations get better how will these scums earn there bread? and we too have a few of these here in Pakistan.

I loved the article however, "Is it the way the cookie crumbles?" , "Two hostile neighbours are getting together to exclude India as Afghanistan becomes a semi-unfriendly hub for ISI activities", Specially loved the" dangerously extends Islamabad’s reach beyond its already unhealthy influence in the region" part :rofl: and "For them it’s either you defeat the Taliban (which didn’t happen largely because of Pakistani deceptions)" :lol:

Judging bu her though process, she may had also have added a few abusive foul language words that might have been edited. :lol: Poor Soul! i feel sorry for you lady


not some, I have watched a lots of CLOWNS jumping recently whenever any thing slightly favorable to Pakistan happens. THIS journo is a prime example :lol:

So what do you make of the Afghani President intentions? For me , its confusing.
 
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Without American cover , india will not be able make any further gains in Afghanistan , once the last foreign troops leave Afghanistan , india too will have to pack up and leave.

Afghanistan belongs to the the Afghan , it's their country and they should build it to give their future generations a better life.

Getting in bed with India or using NATO/US provided money to create trouble in FATA and surrounding areas will only invite Pakistan to stick it back up where the sun don't shine
 
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