China-Pak in MoU to develop stealth variant of JF-17 Thunder

[Tshering22]

But this would mean a completely new fighter isn't it? Considering that you cannot put the current design with an internal bay right? I don't know much about aeronautics but with the current design, it doesn't seem possible.

Will it be a mark 2 or JF-18?

 

[pshamim]

I do not believe in trolling. In fact I am too old to even know what the word meant until I googled to find out.

I am sorry if my post enraged you. But you cannot blame me to react to certain posts with baseless arguments.

One of them is that since Chinese Air Force has not inducted or will not induct any FC-1, it is a useless aircraft. If that is the case will you kindly tell me why F-18s are in the MRCA race for IAF when not even one has been bought by United States Air Force. In fact they were rejected by both the USAF and Pakistan in favor of F-16s which many Indians seem to discard because Pakistan knows every inch of it and has been flying them for last 30 years.. If F-18s were in competition for Indian Navy, it would have made a lot of sense but if they are are purchased for IAF, it will be a great favor to PAF.

 

[Kompromat]

I do not believe in trolling. In fact I am too old to even know what the word meant until I googled to find out.

I am sorry if my post enraged you. But you cannot blame me to react to certain posts with baseless arguments.

One of them is that since Chinese Air Force has not inducted or will not induct any FC-1, it is a useless aircraft. If that is the case will you kindly tell me why F-18s are in the MRCA race for IAF when not even one has been bought by United States Air Force. In fact they were rejected by both the USAF and Pakistan in favor of F-16s which many Indians seem to discard because Pakistan knows every inch of it and has been flying them for last 30 years.. If F-18s were in competition for Indian Navy, it would have made a lot of sense but if they are are purchased for IAF, it will be a great favor to PAF.

Thank you sir.

Can you please break the Myth of JF-17X or so called the stealthy Thunder.

Does this thing even exist in PAF's minds or just Indian media is doing what it is good at-spreading paranoia !

 

[Indian-Devil]

The fact is that LCA program began in 80s to induct a fighter for IAF to replace Migs by 90s and where it stands today? and still Indians are learning new ways to spend more and more money to flush down the drain? All this for a mainstay fighter that could be tagged as "INDIGENOUS"? despite its foreign engine, radar, design, ew and what not ?

India started this program on its own , although there are some components which are imported and few are made in JV also for LCA. LCA in its current configuration is much better than Mig-21 and that is been accepted by IAF also. Since IAF saw much potential in LCA rather than point defence fighter, so it want Mk-2 version with more powerful engine and other changes. Well how much India started from scratch and how much it has gained from LCA, lets not discuss here.

Sir Shamim is a very senior member and has way more knowledge than me, you and many out there so you better respect him and not paste remarks like troll tank and likes ok or you will be reported.

I sincerly accept Nabil that he is a senior member, but seniority should be visible from individual post not just by name. I don't think you mentioned this post after reading post#147. I never meant any trolling by raising my doubt regarding contribution of Pak in JF-17 JV. To be honest i never seen any source or any credible link provided by any senior persons here. Anyway thanks for ur suggestions to all.

 

[gogbot]

The fact is that LCA program began in 80s to induct a fighter for IAF to replace Migs by 90s and where it stands today?

I can try to explain. Some errors in you Info , and end up in a long discussion on the LCA , in which you may or may not believe.

For the sake of calirity i will post but one thing

1983
DRDO obtained permission to initiate a programme to design and develop a Light Combat Aircraft

1984
Government of India set up Aeronautical Development Agency ADA in 1984 as the nodal agency for managing and developing the LCA.

1985
IAF submits Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for LCA in October 1985. This was initiated by the then Air Chief Marshal Idris Hassan Latif.

1986
Government allocates 575 crores for the LCA programme.
Programme to develop an indigenous powerplant (engine) was launched at GTRE.

1987
Project definition commenced in October 1987 with French Dassault Aviation as consultants.

1988
Project definition completed in September 1988.

1989
Government review committee expresses confidence in LCA programme. It was decided that the programme will be carried out in two phases.

1990
Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged reverse static stability aircraft.
Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems within India prevented full scale operations from starting.

1993
Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.

1995
First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November
1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.

1997
Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.

and still Indians are learning new ways to spend more and more money to flush down the drain? All this for a mainstay fighter that could be tagged as "INDIGENOUS"? despite its foreign engine, radar, design, ew and what not ?

yes , Indian's are fail at everything

I thought you were a more logical individual , but if those are the comments you want to make, then fine.

Again for clarity if you will listen

The LCA programme was launched in 1983 for two primary purposes.

The principal and most obvious goal was the development of a replacement aircraft for India's ageing MiG-21 fighters. The MiG-21 has been the mainstay of the Indian Air Force since the 1970s.

The LCA programme's other main objective was to serve as the vehicle for an across-the-board advancement of India's domestic aerospace industry.The value of the aerospace "self-reliance" initiative is not simply the production of an aircraft, but also the building of a local industry capable of creating state-of-the-art products with commercial spin-offs for a global market. The LCA program was intended in part to further expand and advance India's indigenous aerospace capabilities.

Sir Shamim is a very senior member and has way more knowledge than me, you and many out there so you better respect him and not paste remarks like troll tank and likes ok or you will be reported.

Mr.Shamim , made statements contradictory to what describe.
And has not bothered to correct me or himself in his reply.

I do not believe in trolling. In fact I am too old to even know what the word meant until I googled to find out.

Yet , that is the effect of you post mr Shamim

I am sorry if my post enraged you. But you cannot blame me to react to certain posts with baseless arguments.

I was not enraged , but was rather annoyed with you comments.

I don't understand why you are apologizing for that however. Do you agree some your own comments were ur-justified.

One of them is that since Chinese Air Force has not inducted or will not induct any FC-1.

I have not made such a claim.

FC-1 was never intended for Domestic orders in China , But a cost-effective export plane to establish China as a Aerospace major in the defence market

I believe i made that clear in my last post

If that is the case will you kindly tell me why F-18s are in the MRCA race for IAF when not even one has been bought by United States Air Force.In fact they were rejected by both the USAF and Pakistan in favor of F-16s

Yet , they are still used by various other air forces around the world
Spanish and Australian Air-forces used them as a mainstay.
As well as one squadron for malaysia

USAF did not need a large plane like the F-18 , it had many other planes for similar roles. Which includes its stealth aircraft.
It needed a plane with more focus on air-superiority like the F-16

Pakistan I believe has not looked at the F-18 SH on offer to India.
Even if it did , Pakistan historically is against Twin engine aircraft.
They are more expensive to Maintain or operate , which PAF does nto favour.

which many Indians seem to discard because Pakistan knows every inch of it and has been flying them for last 30 years.

The US is retiring its F-16's , F-16's being replaced where possible.

In fact
Air Force urged to consider Navy F-18s (8/6/09) -- GovExec.com

The House version of the fiscal 2010 defense authorization bill includes language that advises the USAF to consider adopting Super Hornets in order to avoid a gap in the nation's air defenses while the JSF ramps up.

They argue that 80 percent of the Air Guard's F-16s, which fly the majority of Air Sovereignty Alert missions, will retire years before their replacements are ready, depleting units of the aircraft they need to secure domestic airspace.

If F-18s were in competition for Indian Navy, it would have made a lot of sense but if they are are purchased for IAF, it will be a great favor to PAF

See , i don't see how your statement make's any sense.

F-18 SH requires big CATOBAR carriers that India NAvy does not have. We have Medium STOBAR carriers Incompatible with the large SH.


F-18 SH is a proven platform and a capable Mulit-role aircraft . Which is a trademark of all Carrier borne fighters.
High payload and long range. make this a very potent aircraft.

Especially with the new mods

FARNBOROUGH: Boeing reveals F-15 and F-18 fighter development plans

Super Hornet mods added to export list: AINonline

 

[gowthamraj]

Ha ha ha, wonderful going .jigs may proud derail this thread by bringing lca here

 

[Guynextdoor]

But this would mean a completely new fighter isn't it? Considering that you cannot put the current design with an internal bay right? I don't know much about aeronautics but with the current design, it doesn't seem possible.

Will it be a mark 2 or JF-18?

No I raised that query already, it'll be 'stealthier' with some modifications.

 

[IceCold]

What Pakistan Manufactures is not the question here ,

Original question was regarding the feasibility of making a stealthy JF-17

Some members took offence and attacked the LCA.
Indian members naturally came to its defence.

Then we went on fact finding machine for the JF-17 as to why exactly were all these smug members attacking the LCA , To point out they are on no position to comment on the LCA.

Why is it that on every JF-17 related threads, You Indians decide to go on your so called fact finding missions about JF-17. What is it that you guys cant understand or don't want to understand.

 

[gogbot]

Why is it that on every JF-17 related threads, You Indians decide to go on your so called fact finding missions about JF-17. What is it that you guys cant understand or don't want to understand.

Why Some members on the forum , Seem to think.

Just because they sent 30 engineers to China , Spent a few years and a lot of money working on a Chinese design , At Chinese Facilities and Testing sites. came Back with a Plane. And a few years later started Manufacture.

Pakistan is now an Aerospace player ahead of India.

Then they make smug comments Like

where is LCA now ?

and still Indians are learning new ways to spend more and more money to flush down the drain? All this for a mainstay fighter that could be tagged as "INDIGENOUS"? despite its foreign engine, radar, design, ew and what not ?

While Pakistan Still Lack's the most basic aerospace infrastructure in the country.

Be happy with you JF17 , Tout its capabilities and what not

But then Don't make stupid comments on the LCA programme , Which is a far more Expansive and Ambitious.

The LCA programme's other main objective was to serve as the vehicle for an across-the-board advancement of India's domestic aerospace industry.The value of the aerospace "self-reliance" initiative is not simply the production of an aircraft, but also the building of a local industry capable of creating state-of-the-art products with commercial spin-offs for a global market. The LCA program was intended in part to further expand and advance India's indigenous aerospace capabilities.

 

[muse]

Pakistanis seem to have been tremendously successful in managing the expectations of Indians - however, there are some here who continue to think that the expectaitons of Indians should be challeneged - these Pakistanis are not thinking -- keep the Indian happy, do not deflate their ego - if simple things like a MoU and merely an offer to evaluate can inflame Indians to the degree it seems to have, thinking Pakistanis should take greater care - given the fragility of the package - managing the expectations of Indian friends.
It is a given that the Indian programs are deeper, more sophisticated and more successful - Pakistanis should make greater efforts to learn about the depth and sophistication of Indian programs - they will find it rewarding , educational.

 

[IceCold]

Why Some members on the forum , Seem to think.

Just because they sent 30 engineers to China , Spent a few years and a lot of money working on a Chinese design , At Chinese Facilities and Testing sites. came Back with a Plane. And a few years later started Manufacture.

Pakistan is now an Aerospace player ahead of India.

Then they make smug comments Like





While Pakistan Still Lack's the most basic aerospace infrastructure in the country.

Be happy with you JF17 , Tout its capabilities and what not

But then Don't make stupid comments on the LCA programme , Which is a far more Expansive and Ambitious.

Are you implying India did not have had help in her so called indigenous LCA project and even with all that help it could not get the jet in active duty, what does it tells about Indian aerospace industry? And whether we are ahead of the Indian aerospace industry or not which is in itself debatable, fact is JF-17 was as ambitious as a project as LCA was for India, difference is we got it running not just for ourselves but now we have international buyers interested in it which speaks for its volume, where exactly does LCA stands. So before saying that Pakistan lacks even the most basic aerospace infrastructure which is in itself a stupid and a vague comment, have a look at Indias aerospace complex which despite getting all the help it could muster from design to the engine to the avionics, is still struggling with the ambitious LCA project.

 

[MastanKhan]

Pakistanis seem to have been tremendously successful in managing the expectations of Indians - however, there are some here who continue to think that the expectaitons of Indians should be challeneged - these Pakistanis are not thinking -- keep the Indian happy, do not deflate their ego - if simple things like a MoU and merely an offer to evaluate can inflame Indians to the degree it seems to have, thinking Pakistanis should take greater care - given the fragility of the package - managing the expectations of Indian friends.
It is a given that the Indian programs are deeper, more sophisticated and more successful - Pakistanis should make greater efforts to learn about the depth and sophistication of Indian programs - they will find it rewarding , educational.

Hi,

Good to see you buddy----been a longtime--.

 

[bc040400065]

Why Some members on the forum , Seem to think.

Just because they sent 30 engineers to China , Spent a few years and a lot of money working on a Chinese design , At Chinese Facilities and Testing sites. came Back with a Plane. And a few years later started Manufacture.

Pakistan is now an Aerospace player ahead of India.

Then they make smug comments Like





While Pakistan Still Lack's the most basic aerospace infrastructure in the country.

Be happy with you JF17 , Tout its capabilities and what not

But then Don't make stupid comments on the LCA programme , Which is a far more Expansive and Ambitious.

This is not a LCA thread. So you better not post comment about LCA here. And about JF17, well what ever it is we are happy with it so please avoid showing your hatred towards pakistan.

 

[MastanKhan]

Why Some members on the forum , Seem to think.

Just because they sent 30 engineers to China , Spent a few years and a lot of money working on a Chinese design , At Chinese Facilities and Testing sites. came Back with a Plane. And a few years later started Manufacture.

Pakistan is now an Aerospace player ahead of India.

Hi,

How are you sir?

Each and every nation has its own way of doing things---depending on their resources---people who have lesser resources tend to do things differently and have a DIFFERENT LEARNING CURVE as compared to others. We were a part of developing the core technology of building the frame of the aircraft---.

As have been observed in the past by friends, peers, foes and enemies alike-----that pakistan has surprised everyone with what it has developed with its limited resources.

It is due to our total focus on the job at hand---it is all due to our engineers who are a part of the millitary---who work in a very well disciplined and pro active environemt where the goal and ideals are focus focus focus on the job at hand in the shortest possible time---with a minimal of resources keeping in mind the what the adversary has for us.

I can tell you that only if 1 / 10 th of my nations population were as dedicated and as focused as these engineers in these projects---we would have left you---ie india---way behind in our dust---.

Please don't be surprised if we can produce some items better than you---our workings are different than your burucracy.

 

[Nishan_101]

I think no one is understanding that the PAF/PAC has signed for joined development program but the investment that we are doing might not be like in the case of JF-17 but it would be rather like K-8s. We would be investing 25% of the total cost of the program like in engines and avionics and may be some weapons as a separate investment, this will reduce of weapons import budget and we could gain more foreign exchange even by only and only selling it to the Muslim Countries.