China may export J-10B fighters with Russian AL31FN-S3 engines to Pakistan

[ghauri05]

What i understood with PAF planning, there is no place of j10 in PAF for following reasons as summarised below,


3) PAF has decided to maintain 100+ (new and MLU upgraded old ) f16s and hundreds of JFTs till 2025 at max. after that PAF will got for 5th gen.

I think this is the most beneficial in terms of survivability and cost to benefit ratio.

The only worrying thing is point 3...that for almost 9-10 years,we are going to be dependant on light and medium range aircrafts,..s it puts us on completely defensive position....we don't have any heavy and we won't be able to launche an offensive operation in enemy's territory...!!!while our enemy is far ahead both in numbers and quality as most of the aircrafts are 4th gen.and have enough range to launch deep strike mission
Another point...j31...i don't know about it,whether it's heavy or medium ...if it's medium than...we won't gain too much even after inducting it...as our weakness of launching an offensive strike will always be there(remember india is also getting PAKFA..which is surely a heavy...and also it neutralizes our stealth)....!!!
So why PAF is ignoring such shortcomings....and making itself a defensive force....??while all the air forces in the world have assumed the offensive role

 

[SAS]

What advantages does J-10B bring to Pakistan Air Force over current F-16 52 block? Apart from price label. Also, the lower price label comes with notorious Chinese unreliability and unavailability.

 

[New World]

No need to hurry. wait for J-31 to get an edge on IAF.

and in that time IAF will have 100+ T-50 , AMCA 100+ and 50+ F-35..

 

[cloud4000]

and in that time IAF will have 100+ T-50 , AMCA 100+ and 50+ F-35..

Is India seriously considering the F-35 even though it's heavily invested in T-50 project?

 

[Syed_Adeel]

The only worrying thing is point 3...that for almost 9-10 years,we are going to be dependant on light and medium range aircrafts,..s it puts us on completely defensive position....we don't have any heavy and we won't be able to launche an offensive operation in enemy's territory...!!!while our enemy is far ahead both in numbers and quality as most of the aircrafts are 4th gen.and have enough range to launch deep strike mission
Another point...j31...i don't know about it,whether it's heavy or medium ...if it's medium than...we won't gain too much even after inducting it...as our weakness of launching an offensive strike will always be there(remember india is also getting PAKFA..which is surely a heavy...and also it neutralizes our stealth)....!!!
So why PAF is ignoring such shortcomings....and making itself a defensive force....??while all the air forces in the world have assumed the offensive role

Dear Medium or light aircrafts doesnt mean that they cannot launch offensive strikes.
Handful of Israeli f16s destroyed whole Iraqi nuclear reactor.
f16 has potent strike capability with good ranges. and JFT can also launch strike upto ±1000KM ranges with decent payload. It doesnt make us completely defensive. PAF has offensive defence doctrine and they know much better than us that how to achieve their goals.

f35 or j31 are still made for air interception as major role. once you get air cover then you can send lower end heavy fighters for ground attacks.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Is India seriously considering the F-35 even though it's heavily invested in T-50 project?

really? how do you know?
its not cheap. and i thought from the feedback indian users here on pdf have about inducting American jets is negative.
they go on about the strings involved and how they will be able to switch of critical avionics. or how they can easily stop supplying parts to you in wartime.............i will tag you shortly

 

[chhota bheem]

really? how do you know?
its not cheap. and i thought from the feedback indian users here on pdf have about inducting American jets is negative.
they go on about the strings involved and how they will be able to switch of critical avionics. or how they can easily stop supplying parts to you in wartime.............i will tag you shortly

Indian Navy might get F35

 

[Blue Marlin]

Indian Navy might get F35

well that does make sense as your carriers are getting emals. but at the same time russia offered to make provide mis29k's that are emal compatible. and lets not forget the f18

 

[New World]

Is India seriously considering the F-35 even though it's heavily invested in T-50 project?

who knows. this govt. has tilted more towards the USA, might they will consider it by next few year..
and Israel may also advocate for F-35..

lso 300 Su-30s, 148 LCA and 36/72 Rafales

we are talking about 5 gen fighters..

 

[New World]

oh, btw AMCA is just a Fantasy for next Couple of Years.

i'm taking about 2025+

 

[ghauri05]

Dear Medium or light aircrafts doesnt mean that they cannot launch offensive strikes.
Handful of Israeli f16s destroyed whole Iraqi nuclear reactor.
f16 has potent strike capability with good ranges. and JFT can also launch strike upto ±1000KM ranges with decent payload. It doesnt make us completely defensive. PAF has offensive defence doctrine and they know much better than us that how to achieve their goals.

f35 or j31 are still made for air interception as major role. once you get air cover then you can send lower end heavy fighters for ground attacks.

For israelis the adversary was Iraq..not a potent air force to defend the skies....but for us it's India...there number are huge as compared to us and all of them are technologically either equivalent or superior to our aircrafts plus they have also invested in SAMs(another area in which Pak lags far behind)...so it will not be as easy for us as is it was for israelis ....!!!

The thing is PAF have no planning to go for a trike air superiority fighter...so i don't see any offensive part in PAF's doctrine....and that is dangerous for us.

And plz elaborate how JFT has strike range of 1000KM...may be enhance my knowledge about it.

 

[Zarvan]

For israelis the adversary was Iraq..not a potent air force to defend the skies....but for us it's India...there number are huge as compared to us and all of them are technologically either equivalent or superior to our aircrafts plus they have also invested in SAMs(another area in which Pak lags far behind)...so it will not be as easy for us as is it was for israelis ....!!!

The thing is PAF have no planning to go for a trike air superiority fighter...so i don't see any offensive part in PAF's doctrine....and that is dangerous for us.

And plz elaborate how JFT has strike range of 1000KM...may be enhance my knowledge about it.

Mr even during 1965 and 1971 wars when we were far less powerful our Air Force went for offensive war and we kept going inside India and destroying their Air Force and bases and other systems. Now we in much better position and their would be no defensive strategy but only on paper.

 

[ghauri05]

Mr even during 1965 and 1971 wars when we were far less powerful our Air Force went for offensive war and we kept going inside India and destroying their Air Force and bases and other systems. Now we in much better position and their would be no defensive strategy but only on paper.

Indians are also in much better position....and don't compare it today's air battles with those of '65 and '71.....those were more dependant on ability of pilots but today....technology plays key role....i m not saying the role of pilot is out of equation but it has reduced to minimum now...!!!
No doubt PAF done exceedingly good in previous wars but....we need to look forward for future...and maintain a balance with our enemy...now that can't be done in numbers of course...so we need to go for modern tech...with atleast one more platform...that can offer us..what JFT and F-16s can't...i.e payload and range...!!!!

 

[Syed_Adeel]

For israelis the adversary was Iraq..not a potent air force to defend the skies....but for us it's India...there number are huge as compared to us and all of them are technologically either equivalent or superior to our aircrafts plus they have also invested in SAMs(another area in which Pak lags far behind)...so it will not be as easy for us as is it was for israelis ....!!!

The thing is PAF have no planning to go for a trike air superiority fighter...so i don't see any offensive part in PAF's doctrine....and that is dangerous for us.

And plz elaborate how JFT has strike range of 1000KM...may be enhance my knowledge about it.

Dear i will provide you the official versions but i am telling you that PAF doctrine in offensive defence. its not completely defensive. and for that f16 and even jf17s are fine. normally in war the important logistics and commands are with in 1000KM.
They have more aircrafts but after complete induction of JFT IAF will be having many air crafts which are not as good as ours, they have many mig 21s mig 23 older mig 29s and jaguars which are not as good as you think.

JFT combat range is 1350KM with internal fuel.
CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For israelis the adversary was Iraq..not a potent air force to defend the skies....but for us it's India...there number are huge as compared to us and all of them are technologically either equivalent or superior to our aircrafts plus they have also invested in SAMs(another area in which Pak lags far behind)...so it will not be as easy for us as is it was for israelis ....!!!

The thing is PAF have no planning to go for a trike air superiority fighter...so i don't see any offensive part in PAF's doctrine....and that is dangerous for us.

And plz elaborate how JFT has strike range of 1000KM...may be enhance my knowledge about it.

i will find more but for now read this.
http://www.claws.in/images/journals_doc/222400977_RSNSingh.pdf

 

[Penguin]

Their F-16s are not equipped with modern BVR and their IFF treat Israel as friend while Mig-35s will not have those issues.

Egypt steps up interest in MiG-35 deal with Russia
.
‘Egypt close to buying 24 MiG-35 Fulcrums’ | AIRheads↑FLY

Egypt is an F-16 user
General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All models since F-16A/B Block 20 are capable of both AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-120 Amraam
USAF ANG F-16A/B Block 15 ADF was the only early US version equipped with the AIM-7 Sparrow air-to-air missile
General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon variants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Egypt is an AIM-7 Sparrow user (and none of its aircraft but the F-16 use it)
AIM-7 Sparrow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Semi active radar homing
AIM-7C/D: 32 kilometres (20 mi)
AIM-7E/E2: 45 kilometres (28 mi)
AIM-7F/M: 50 kilometres (31 mi)
AIM-7 Sparrow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mirage 2000 of Egypt has the 40km Super 530D AAM (semi active radar homing)
Dassault Mirage 2000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Super 530 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rafale has Mica, which comes in 'fire and forget ' IR and EM variants, though Egypt apparently has not yet ordered EM. Still, guidance aside, the missile are the same and the IR variant does 50km just like the EM variant.
Dassault Rafale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MICA (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aside from Sparrow, Super 530D and Mica IR, the acquisition of Rafale will bring the Meteor active radar homing AAM, which has a range of 'in excess of 100 km'.
List of munitions used by the Egyptian Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Meteor (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mig-35, like Mig-29 can use
AA-10 Alamo: 4× R-27R (up to 80km), R-27T (up to 70km), R-27ER (up to130km), R-27ET (up to 120km)
AA-12 Adder: 8× R-77 (80 km R-77, 110 km R-77-1, >200km K-77M)

Question is what BVRAAM would Mig-35 be ordered with (and what Mig-35 adds relative to Soviet era Mig-29, which also used R-27 and R-77 already). Remember, Egypt has spent a lot of time ridding itself of legacy soviet jets. Logistically, Mig-35 would mean an additional aircraft type and 2 additional missile types.