China may export J-10B fighters with Russian AL31FN-S3 engines to Pakistan

[Viper0011.]

China can not export any machine with russian engine.
My guess is,Pakistan is really not interested in J-10b .

If the Chinese wanted to, they can export anything with the Russian engines. This is called leverage and Chinese have plenty over the Russians as the Russian economy is pretty close to being tanked. The Chinese are giving them probably the most trade and business right now. So exporting a few hundred engines isn't that big of a deal.

If Pakistan really wants the J-10B, she should get double the amount of engines and store them. That way, you are safe for many years to come. That's not bad. But Pakistan really needs a Twin Turbine platform (about 60-100) with a Stealth platform (about 60).

Only choice!!!

That's not true. You can easily acquire used -16's in numbers, or even older -15's with upgrades, if you really want to introduce a twin engine jet. You could also use the Chinese card more seriously and use their leverage over the Russians to get J-11's (although I'd prefer J-16). The next obvious step is the stealth platform.

 

[ahmad raza jutt]

engines are already aproved

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

If the Chinese wanted to, they can export anything with the Russian engines. This is called leverage and Chinese have plenty over the Russians as the Russian economy is pretty close to being tanked. The Chinese are giving them probably the most trade and business right now. So exporting a few hundred engines isn't that big of a deal.

If Pakistan really wants the J-10B, she should get double the amount of engines and store them. That way, you are safe for many years to come. That's not bad. But Pakistan really needs a Twin Turbine platform (about 60-100) with a Stealth platform (about 60).



That's not true. You can easily acquire used -16's in numbers, or even older -15's with upgrades, if you really want to introduce a twin engine jet. You could also use the Chinese card more seriously and use their leverage over the Russians to get J-11's (although I'd prefer J-16). The next obvious step is the stealth platform.

Yup that's write but we were actually talking about J-10. I don't think we can afford it right now. I will go with your opinion instead used F-16's or even Block-60 and F-15 will be cheaper, yet they are one of the most advanced fighters.

 

[HAIDER]

This might be a stupid question.

But can't we ask UAE to sell their block 60s to us onnce they start induction of Rafael's.?

The UAE invested in the “Desert Falcon’s” development, and the contract reportedly includes royalty fees if other countries buy it. Plus UAE recently further modified these planes per regional requirement .

 

[nana41]

The UAE invested in the “Desert Falcon’s” development, and the contract reportedly includes royalty fees if other countries buy it.

No chinese aircraft with russian engine, can be sold to any
other country without russian approval. Relations between
Pakistan and Russia have not reached the " no objection" level yet,reported sale of Mi-35 Helicopter being a first and a tiny step.Any country willing to sell its F 16 or F 15 requires prior permission from U S Govt.Saudi Arabia bought 50 odd
C-130 Herculese on cash terms.only after an approval,they could sell 5 excess machines to Turky, an American and NATO alley.And that applies to any jointly developed technology as well.

 

[HAIDER]

No chinese aircraft with russian engine, can be sold to any
other country without russian approval. Relations between
Pakistan and Russia have not reached the " no objection" level yet,reported sale of Mi-35 Helicopter being a first and a tiny step.Any country willing to sell its F 16 or F 15 requires prior permission from U S Govt.Saudi Arabia bought 50 odd
C-130 Herculese on cash terms.only after an approval,they could sell 5 excess machines to Turky, an American and NATO alley.

Two differ scenario , NATO has huge boneyard and storage to pull any plane anytime , while Russia has non. Also when talk about AL31 engine, India has high stake when Russia export this engine to Pakistan. Because India already oppose export of this engine to Pakistan few years back,this engine is backbone of Indian air defence fleet.

 

[nana41]

Two differ scenario , NATO has huge boneyard and storage to pull any plane anytime , while Russia has non. Also when talk about AL31 engine, India has high stake when Russia export this engine to Pakistan. Because India already oppose export of this engine to Pakistan few years back,this engine is backbone of Indian air defence fleet.

What point are you trying to come to?

 

[airmarshal]

Two differ scenario , NATO has huge boneyard and storage to pull any plane anytime , while Russia has non. Also when talk about AL31 engine, India has high stake when Russia export this engine to Pakistan. Because India already oppose export of this engine to Pakistan few years back,this engine is backbone of Indian air defence fleet.

Stop comparing India to China in any scenario. China and the amount of business and investment it is offering to Russia cant be compared by a distance to what India can offer to Russia.

At best, India can be a consumer of Russian product. But China is not just consumer at bigger scale but also investor.

If Pakistan and China want this hurdle can be easily overcome.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

You can easily acquire used -16's in numbers, or even older -15's with upgrades, if you really want to introduce a twin engine jet.

Sir, You are correct but the thing is they are going to have sanctions where as any thing that comes from China would be free...

Yup that's write but we were actually talking about J-10. I don't think we can afford it right now. I will go with your opinion instead used F-16's or even Block-60 and F-15 will be cheaper, yet they are one of the most advanced fighters.

Do understand that USA is not going to give any technology that exceeds the ones that is in use today in USA. The F-16blk 60 are the most advance F-16's built to date. They have systems that supersede the current systems on US Air force F-16's. If you do some research you are going to find news regarding an attack by UAE Air Force on Libya where the Libians claimed the aircraft were UAE's but the US said they did not see them though they had all the equipment to identify..

Two differ scenario , NATO has huge boneyard and storage to pull any plane anytime , while Russia has non. Also when talk about AL31 engine, India has high stake when Russia export this engine to Pakistan. Because India already oppose export of this engine to Pakistan few years back,this engine is backbone of Indian air defence fleet.

The engines that are heading to India for Su30-MKIs are from Ukraine...Hence Russia is in odds in this regards. The sale of Russian engines directly for JF-17's was the first step in getting improvement rights...

Now PAF are going to get the J-10B hence they require an engine with it...If Russia is not going to give the engine then Belarus is offering the same engine.

 

[HAIDER]

What point are you trying to come to?

Pak arch rival stake holder has deeper pockets then Pakistan.

Stop comparing India to China in any scenario. China and the amount of business and investment it is offering to Russia cant be compared by a distance to what India can offer to Russia.

At best, India can be a consumer of Russian product. But China is not just consumer at bigger scale but also investor.

If Pakistan and China want this hurdle can be easily overcome.

Read your line again, Russia has almost 80 percent defence industry of India and China is major exporter and defence order per demand. Also Russia is little uncomfortable when China copy SU27 without Sukoi permission. Later having copy issue with carrier based SU33.

Sir, You are correct but the thing is they are going to have sanctions where as any thing that comes from China would be free...


Do understand that USA is not going to give any technology that exceeds the ones that is in use today in USA. The F-16blk 60 are the most advance F-16's built to date. They have systems that supersede the current systems on US Air force F-16's. If you do some research you are going to find news regarding an attack by UAE Air Force on Libya where the Libians claimed the aircraft were UAE's but the US said they did not see them though they had all the equipment to identify..

The engines that are heading to India for Su30-MKIs are from Ukraine...Hence Russia is in odds in this regards. The sale of Russian engines directly for JF-17's was the first step in getting improvement rights...

Now PAF are going to get the J-10B hence they require an engine with it...If Russia is not going to give the engine then Belarus is offering the same engine.

Look for news when Russian sent SU30 kits to India and Indian failed to assemble , after few months those kits were sent back to Russia and Russia assemble those SU30 and handover to Indian.Also Russia allowed few pre production of SU27 engine, but Ukraine has no setup or export any AL31 engine to any country. US bought Ukarine SU27 .

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Look for news when Russian sent SU30 kits to India and Indian failed to assemble , after few months those kits were sent back to Russia and Russia assemble those SU30 and handover to Indian.Also Russia allowed few pre production of SU27 engine, but Ukraine has no setup or export any AL31 engine to any country. US bought Ukarine SU27 fleet.

Sir pls go through this...
AL-31 engine | China Military

 

[HAIDER]

Sir pls go through this...
AL-31 engine | China Military

appreciate your effort, but its not official portal. Good for reading, but not reliable when come to reference. Its 2011 news. Also Russia only send the part to few republics to assemble. As you know now, Ukraine is divided and war zone without any production. Now Ukraine is Russian enemy.

 

[HariPrasad]

What additional features does J 10 offer in excess of JF 17?

May be little bit of more weight carrying. what else?

 

[black-hawk_101]

I think they can also export some 50 J-10As to PAF as well as they are still in production and its been tested very well. And later on China may give PAF 50 J-10Bs as well.

 

[Blue Marlin]

PAF is interested in J-31 there are many many news about that but that plane still need time to develop

need time to develop and time to acclimate enough money to buy them and acquire a licence to co produce. i say it will have a Chinese engine as it already being tested in china. this engine is better than the Russian engine because the Chinese engine has a complete burn resulting in a smokeless combustion and also don't forget its more powerful. this will make the j10 100% indigenous and a jet that can be affected by sanctions

What additional features does J 10 offer in excess of JF 17?

May be little bit of more weight carrying. what else?

1. it aerodynamically unstable. it has supermaneuverability
2. it has an IRST good for night strikes.
3. larger airframe carry more weapons/ drop tanks and sniper pods. this answers your question why it is carry more 4. weight.
4.it's faster the j10b with and uprated engine
5. it has an AESA radar.
6. longer range
given these advantages it can compete against the rafael, f18, f16, typhoon, mig 29, su27 and [f15's- depends on specs] .