China made F-7BGI is ready for export Bangladesh, paint job is done

[Armstrong]

Well the word is that it will fit the KLJ-6F Fire control radar: The dimension of the radar is same as KLJ-6E but search, track and attack range has been improved heavily. KLJ-6F is a BVR capable radar with a range of 86+km and it can track up to 6 and engage 2.

While it is not confirmed that it will have a range as great as this, remember that most BVR engagements take place at much lesser ranges than the maximum detection ranges of fighter radars, so if equipped with the SD-10 MRAAM, the F-7BGI will have the ability to engage, if not always defeat, 4th generation aircraft.

Is that a successor to the KLJ-7s ? Because that has a range of 75 kms or so !

Also I thought the BGIs were getting advanced avionics & not structural changes ? I really don't understand how could a bigger radar be fit in that miniscule cone ? Had it been an option, even with a few structural modifications, the PAF would have gone for it long before anyone else...seeing that we operate a large number of F-7s !

 

[Armstrong]

Which bird? F7PG with a range of 50 km??

Yup ! With the Italian FIAR Grifo 7 fire-control radar with a stated range, from what I've heard, of around 50-55 kms !

 

[kobiraaz]

Old F7BGs are effective within 30 km! Not sure about BGI though!

 

[Secur]

Old F7BGs are effective within 30 km! Not sure about BGI though!

Well to be honest , the F-7 has served as well and still does so ... A capable and proven aircraft which has gone through continuous upgradation and capability enhancement ...

 

[UKBengali]

Is that a successor to the KLJ-7s ? Because that has a range of 75 kms or so !

Also I thought the BGIs were getting advanced avionics & not structural changes ? I really don't understand how could a bigger radar be fit in that miniscule cone ? Had it been an option, even with a few structural modifications, the PAF would have gone for it long before anyone else...seeing that we operate a large number of F-7s !

Unfortunately I do not have any other information or specific links but what I have read around.

It seems reasonable that as technology advances then the range of a radar will increase over time.

I am not sure about the 86KM range but even at 50km that is still at the upper end of the range that most BVR shots take place anyway. 50KM radar range is still good for BVR fighting with a light-weight fighter like LCA but not for the likes of SU-30MKI.

As for why Pakistan would not have gone for a radar like this, it is a very new radar and so would not have been available before. Pakistan currently has 50 JF-17s and is adding more every year so it seems illogical to buy newer radars for it's J-7 fleet when it is being replaced by a new fighter that will anyway be more capable.

 

[Varunastra]

I don't think F-7 BGI's radar is bvr capable , by seeing it anyone can say that it is not bvr capable ; there is not enough space for a bvr capable radar

our MIG-21 bisons have a bvr capable radar ,you can see the difference in size

 

[eastwatch]

Yup ! With the Italian FIAR Grifo 7 fire-control radar with a stated range, from what I've heard, of around 50-55 kms !

Somewhere in an earlier post a Chinese poster said BGI BVR can pinpoint targets at 40 or 50 km away.

 

[Armstrong]

Somewhere in an earlier post a Chinese poster said BGI BVR can pinpoint targets at 40 or 50 km away.

Achaaa...! But thats a borderline BVR capability...like that possessed by our PGs. Our real BVR capable assets are the F-16s, now the JF-17s & possibly the Rose upgraded Mirages. You guys might have BVR capable Mig 29s (I'm assuming for I really dunno know !).

However when all is said & done...the F-7s are pretty darn good in the WVR range & thats where with its agility (I've read its comparable, though not the same, as earlier model F-16s which in turn were better dog fighters than latter generation F-16s) & the Sidewinders or another good short-range AA missile it can be more than a threat, on its day, to any fighter out there. In fact one of the parallels that is often drawn between the IAF Bison & the PAF PGs is that the former lost much of its agility (maneuverability) with the BISON upgrade but gained some real BVR advantage whereas the PG not only retained but enhanced its maneuverability but only gained a modest (or borderline) BVR capability.

As I understand it is the view of many across the world, including the PAF, that the time for dog fights is not over & that most air to air combat is not going to happen in the Beyond Visual Range but rather Within Visual Range. I believe in the 'How does PAF counter the Su...something thread' a US Colonel was also quoted as such.

I think the BGI are a better platform than many of us are giving it credit for ! If its truly better than the PGs then its one hell of a bird to have right now in unison with proper ground radar cover & a good SAM system.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

We are buying the "mig 21 copies" because we specifically need a proven interceptor aircraft. Furthermore our F7 MBs are getting old. We are buying these new interceptors to replace the old ones.

Interceptor aircraft is like the foundation of air forces in south asia and china. India, pakistan and china all have huge quantities of Mig 21 and F7. These aircrafts are used to defend the aerospace of the country.

Bro this guy dont know that LCA actually is the copy of Mirage III

 

[HeinzG]

However when all is said & done...the F-7s are pretty darn good in the WVR range & thats where with its agility (I've read its comparable, though not the same, as earlier model F-16s which in turn were better dog fighters than latter generation F-16s) & the Sidewinders or another good short-range AA missile it can be more than a threat, on its day, to any fighter out there. In fact one of the parallels that is often drawn between the IAF Bison & the PAF PGs is that the former lost much of its agility (maneuverability) with the BISON upgrade but gained some real BVR advantage whereas the PG not only retained but enhanced its maneuverability but only gained a modest (or borderline) BVR capability.

As I understand it is the view of many across the world, including the PAF, that the time for dog fights is not over & that most air to air combat is not going to happen in the Beyond Visual Range but rather Within Visual Range. I believe in the 'How does PAF counter the Su...something thread' a US Colonel was also quoted as such.

Generally nowadays pilots of less manuvaurable jets don't mix the fight unless they really have to. This was the general idea when US invaded Iraq in second gulf war. F 15 pilots were instructed not to fall into the WVR fights with MiG 29s.

Therefore it is highly unlikely that Indian heavy fighter, pilots would choose the knife fight. Also it is highly interested to note that how BAF fighters would conduct effective ops when their GCI systems would wiped out.

 

[Emmie]

I don't think F-7 BGI's radar is bvr capable , by seeing it anyone can say that it is not bvr capable ; there is not enough space for a bvr capable radar

our MIG-21 bisons have a bvr capable radar ,you can see the difference in size

Don't think too much, any aircraft capable to hit a target beyond 37 Kms is BVR capable aircraft.

Technically, yes BGIs are BVR capable but practically they are not. To utilize maximum range of BVR missile aircraft need to have a powerful radar which indeed is missing in F-7 variants. Because of the presence of inlet in nose it's not possible to mount a better radar without constricting the inlet, obviously inlet can not be compromised!.

 

[Varunastra]

Don't think too much, any aircraft capable to hit a target beyond 37 Kms is BVR capable aircraft.

Technically, yes BGIs are BVR capable but practically they are not. To utilize maximum range of BVR missile aircraft need to have a powerful radar which indeed is missing in F-7 variants. Because of the presence of inlet in nose it's not possible to mount a better radar without constricting the inlet, obviously inlet can not be compromised!.

can you name an air-air missile that BGI is to be equipped with that has an operational range of more than 37 kms??(give link to confirm your claim please)

 

[Emmie]

can you name an air-air missile that BGI is to be equipped with that has an operational range of more than 37 kms??(give link to confirm your claim please)

Claim? "facepalm!"

Just forget it, it's beyond you to comprehend my previous post.

 

[Zabaniyah]

The Chinese F-7 compared to the MiG-21's radome is too small to house a radar capable of handling BVR missiles like SD-10. The radar is technically BVR-capable, but it'd not be optimal to use a missile like the SD-10.

And even if they do work on doing so, it is pretty pointless considering how old and the design is.

Hence, JF-17.

Though, it's a great dog fighter!

There'll always be one of those situations where the pilot would ultimately wind up in a furball. In fact, majority of US air-to-air kills during the first Gulf War were in WVR scenarios.

Brah...

 

[Dazzler]

KLJ-6F is a neat little radar, a close analogue to Grifo-7 with comparable performance at a slightly short range, still a limited BVR is possible. BGI is a neat looking bird and as we know from reports, the whole MG/ PG/G series fulfils the role of a nifty interceptor efficiently.