China - Japan dispute intensifies

[below_freezing]

Yeah but one has to admit it's hard for any public to actively support someone who's pointing 1,000+ missiles at you.

With our growing naval and air power soon we'll no longer need those missiles to deter independence anyway, and I see their removal as inevitable.

These missiles are not for Taiwan alone, Taiwan politicians just think they are for Taiwan. We are surrounded by hostile powers, having thousands of missiles defending our extremely valuable southeast is normal.

 

[Ruag]

The first article gave no source to back up its claim that China want to “teach it a lesson”. Is the author a Chinese government spokesperson? As for the second article, every countries in the dispute is harnessing others fishermen, and China of course didn't issue threats against companies in operating in Vietnamese waters, we protested companies operating in disputed waters. I also don't see what's the problem with building a naval base on Hainan island, which is of course not under any dispute.

Point taken regarding the "teach a lesson" remark. The author fails to specify who quoted that remark. But the sources clearly point out how Vietnam has systematically been arm-twisted by China. Some more insight --

Vietnam has made no secret of its opposition to what it calls Chinese hegemony in the South China Sea. Last December it ordered six Russian submarines in a deal worth $2 billion or more; two months later another $1 billion was spent on 12 Russian fighter jets.

Commentary: Military Maneuvers - TIME

And various media outlets have clearly pointed out that China "warned" or "threatened" foreign companies from operating in South China Sea and not merely just "protested".

In recent years, Beijing also has warned American oil companies not to engage in joint exploration deals of the South China Sea with Vietnam, and reportedly has told Southeast Asian nations not to discuss issues related to the South China Sea amongst themselves.

Avoiding a Tempest in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations

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First the current legal status of that treaty is unclear, it's debatable if the treaty is still in effect or has been lapsed. Second, the treaty, even if it's in effect, is entirely defensive in nature, what's wrong with helping your neighbor defense against invasion from a third party? Do you believe democracies have this unique mandate to invade non-democracies at will?

Wasn't China's initial alliance with North Korea during the Korean War based purely on mutual ideological agreement? And what was that ideological agreement - Communism, right? I might be wrong in my assessment and there might be factors other than communist solidarity and hatred towards democracies driving Sino-North Korean relations.

Also, the treaty is very much in effect, was renewed in 2001 and is in effect till 2021.

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Lastly, there might not be anything wrong with the treaty technically. However, China's rather ambiguous role in the entire Korean dispute surely creates doubts. On one hand it strongly (and rightfully) condemns North Korean nuclear tests, but on the other hand, there are reports of Chinese assistance in North Korean missile development program (as per the source earlier provided) and facilitation of North Korean arms exports. Couple that with the fact that China was rather muted in its response to the South Korea's Cheonan ship sinking incident.

Gates prods China on North Korea, military ties to US | Home >> Other Sections >> Breaking News

Regarding sources for China-North Korea military partnership -

“On the surface Kim did it just to show the U.S. he did not care. In fact, Kim dares not do anything without China backing him up. North Korea’s politics, economy and military are completely dependent on China,”

North Korea and China Still Friends: Kim Visits Twice | Opinion | Epoch Times

China, Iran and North Korea have established a strategic alliance that focuses on missile and nuclear development, according to Israel's GLORIA Center

Report: China, Iran, North Korea have formed strategic alliance

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Chunxiao field is not a part of the Diaoyutai, it falls entirely within Chinese EEZ, not even Japan is disputing that. To suggest it's in Diaoyu islands is completely bogus. It's you who're playing with words.

Now you've backed up a little and instead of saying its in Diaoyutai, you're saying it's part of the Diaoyutai island dispute, but of course that's also false. China and Japan has two disputes in the East China Sea, one is Diaoyutai another is EEZ. The Chunxiao gas field falls into the second dispute because its 4-5km away from EEZ Japan claims but China disputes. It has nothing to do with Diaoyutai dispute.

Media reports specify that the Chunxiao gas field is directly linked to the Senkaku Islands and that was the basis of my assertion.

The specific development in [Senkaku/ Diaoyutai Islands] dispute is China's drilling in the Chunxiao field, which is three miles west of the median line, but which Japan contends may be tapping natural gas reserves which extend past the median line. The Chunxiao gas field in Xihu Sag in the East China Sea is estimated to hold reserves of more than 1.6 tcf of natural gas and is expected to become a major producer in the next ten years.

Senkaku / Diaoyutai Islands

Sino-Japanese tensions over the dispute have been high since August 2003 when Chinese oil company CNOOC entered into a partnership with Unocal and Royal Dutch/Shell to produce natural gas at the Chunxiao gas field located 3 mi from the Japanese claimed “median line” in the East China Sea....

The Chinese would prefer areas in the sea between Japan’s median line and the Okinawa Trough as they view this as the disputed area. Chinese proposals have included areas near the disputed Senkaku/Diaoyu islands occupied by Japan. Japan’s proposals have been focused on a site straddling the median line and including the Chunxiao complex.

Kuayue-2009: Shifts in PLA Military Planning? - The Jamestown Foundation[tt_news]=4968&tx_ttnews[backPid]=168&no_cache=1

As per my understanding of the above text, Japan stakes claim over the Chunxiao gas field on the basis of its sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands and your assertion that "falls entirely within Chinese EEZ, not even Japan is disputing that" and "[the field] has nothing to do with Diaoyutai dispute" seems to be a whole lot of fiction.

And again, holding on to one specific detail of my assertion and trying to prove it wrong might be another diversion tactic. As I have pointed out earlier, the most important point here is the fact that Japan and China had agreed to jointly develop the concerned gas field but China unilaterally undertakes drilling operations and purposely postpones further negotiations.

Factbox: Ties and tensions between China and Japan | Reuters

 

[Nomenclature]

Point taken regarding the "teach a lesson" remark. The author fails to specify who quoted that remark. But the sources clearly point out how Vietnam has systematically been arm-twisted by China. Some more insight --



And various media outlets have clearly pointed out that China "warned" or "threatened" foreign companies from operating in South China Sea and not merely just "protested".



Avoiding a Tempest in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations

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Wasn't China's initial alliance with North Korea during the Korean War based purely on mutual ideological agreement? And what was that ideological agreement - Communism, right? I might be wrong in my assessment and there might be factors other than communist solidarity and hatred towards democracies driving Sino-North Korean relations.

Also, the treaty is very much in effect, was renewed in 2001 and is in effect till 2021.

Ànºñ¦¿¤ôÀR¬y²I¡G¤¤´Â60¦~¬ö¨Æ_½Ãµø_»ñ°Äºô

Lastly, there might not be anything wrong with the treaty technically. However, China's rather ambiguous role in the entire Korean dispute surely creates doubts. On one hand it strongly (and rightfully) condemns North Korean nuclear tests, but on the other hand, there are reports of Chinese assistance in North Korean missile development program (as per the source earlier provided) and facilitation of North Korean arms exports. Couple that with the fact that China was rather muted in its response to the South Korea's Cheonan ship sinking incident.

Gates prods China on North Korea, military ties to US | Home >> Other Sections >> Breaking News

Regarding sources for China-North Korea military partnership -



North Korea and China Still Friends: Kim Visits Twice | Opinion | Epoch Times



Report: China, Iran, North Korea have formed strategic alliance

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Media reports specify that the Chunxiao gas field is directly linked to the Senkaku Islands and that was the basis of my assertion.



Senkaku / Diaoyutai Islands



Kuayue-2009: Shifts in PLA Military Planning? - The Jamestown Foundation[tt_news]=4968&tx_ttnews[backPid]=168&no_cache=1

As per my understanding of the above text, Japan stakes claim over the Chunxiao gas field on the basis of its sovereignty over the Senkaku Islands and your assertion that "falls entirely within Chinese EEZ, not even Japan is disputing that" and "[the field] has nothing to do with Diaoyutai dispute" seems to be a whole lot of fiction.

And again, holding on to one specific detail of my assertion and trying to prove it wrong might be another diversion tactic. As I have pointed out earlier, the most important point here is the fact that Japan and China had agreed to jointly develop the concerned gas field but China unilaterally undertakes drilling operations and purposely postpones further negotiations.

Factbox: Ties and tensions between China and Japan | Reuters

We may have 'warned' foreign companies from drilling in disputed areas, but then again it's their own decision to make. As far as I know we didn't threaten to blow their platforms up. They may want to drill in an area claimed by us without our permission or they may want to do business with us. It's up to them which way to choose but sure they can't have it both ways.

As for North Korea, the man you quoted saying North Korea is militarily depend on China had his credentials listed as 'Epoch Times columnist'. Being a columnist of the mouth-piece newspaper of an anti-CCP religious group hardly qualify one to speak on defense matters.

For your second quote, the idea China needs to form an alliance with Iran and NK to 'focuses on missile and nuclear development' is beyond lunatic, what can Iran and NK offer to China on missile and nuclear development? The world is complicated enough without conspiracy theories.

As for East China Sea, here's a nice little map summarizing the disputes. The gas fields (white circles) are all outside the Diaoyutai area (dark red shade):

You should actually read the news reports before writing things like 'China unilaterally undertakes drilling operations'. There's no reports saying China is undertaking a drilling operation. The only thing the reports said is China is moving equipments toward that area, China says the equipment is to be used in repair and maintenance of an existing gas field.