WW1 and WW2. And Canada at least doesn't go around invading everybody and claiming everything they see as theirs like some people are doing... Canadians are a peaceful people, not like some others warmongers on this forum.
China invades "Japanese" territorial waters
- Thread starter SinoChallenger
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Since when the action of "trespassing" is described as an "invasion"? Is in the communist chinese language like the action of "suppression of dissent" is called "harmony"? Like the words "China's peaceful rise" seems to mean "China threaten peace"? Perhaps the totalitarian CCP think like the IngSoc party in the book 1984 that "war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength"?
You mean beating Chinese people and firing weapons to their ships like the Russians and North Korean coast guards? You want us to build nukes and made a reputation of being trigger happy with trespassers? Sorry we Japanese have a more civilized society, we only fire "if" a "real invasion" happen.
Remember that F-15J that was shot down in the East China Sea a few years ago? That wasn't a "training accident"
At the very least can you try to do a little research instead of just throw a knee jerk reflex reply?
"...Lt. Col. Yuji Kawakubo, 37, whose body has not been recovered since his aircraft crashed into the East China Sea off Okinawa on July 5, is believed to have blacked out, or suffered G-LOC G-force-induced loss of consciousness as he was exposed to about 5.5 to 6.9 Gs for around eight seconds, it said. A person can typically handle about 5 Gs before blacking out, and fighter pilots wear a G-suit to mitigate the forces of gravity on blood circulation....
...After taking off from the ASDF's Naha Air Base, Kawakubo's F-15 circled and then descended at a steep angle from an altitude of about 3,000 meters. There was also a chance that Kawakubo suddenly lost consciousness for some other reason, but no signs of instrument or other failure in the aircraft were detected in the information obtained from the flight recorder, the ASDF probe said..."
Pilot blackout said behind F-15 crash Friday, Nov. 11, 2011 The Japan Times
I think that most people agree that there is a higher chance of Tibet, Xijiang and Inner Mongolia trying to become independent, because it seems that Okinawans live far better than them.
Since ancient times we endured the hardships of earthquakes, typhoons, volcanic eruptions and have very little natural resources. Even if our cities are nuked we rebuild them and prosper. We dont' despair complaining about our circumstances or blaming others, we strive for improving our lives and prevail. That's the way we Japanese are.
SinoChallenger
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When it is the intentional, official action of a government ship or aircraft, it is not trespassing, but an invasion and breach of sovereignty
Your Ishihara swore he would "slash" any Chinese government forces that intrude into "your" Senkaku islands, but JMSDF is too afraid to confront our ships and aircraft directly. Even your Abe swore during his election campaign he would station Japanese civil servants on the islands but reneged immediately after his election. Every day, China is playing hide-and-seek games with your coast guard and SDF forces, intruding into "your" waters and airspace, challenging your de facto control of the islands, and it is driving you guys crazy
The post-war generation were hard working. The young Japanese today just live with their parents well into their 30's playing video games. The post-war generation showed some contrition including the 1995 Murayama apology but today you have nutjobs like Ishihara running around and Abe as PM wanting to "take back" the 1995 apology.
Japan PM Abe wants to replace landmark war apology: paper - Yahoo! News
The only decent Japanese PM in recent years was Hatoyama and he was brough down by USA interference very quickly for being too pro-China. Your political problems are very serious and you continue to abuse Ryukyu by stationing USA forces on their islands despite their protests.
Therefore, the first order of business for a new, China-dominated East Asia is to liberate the Ryukyuans and impose the post-war Potsdam declaration on Japan -- only 4 main islands and a return to strictly obeying the peaceful constitution.
When it is the intentional, official action of a government ship or aircraft, it is not trespassing, but an invasion and breach of sovereignty
SinoChallenger I think that the majority of the people around the world agree that a "real invasion" is when a military force of one country enter another country and so far the CCP only sent "civilian agencies" that stay a short period of time before go back to the PRC. I think that civilized people agree that such pitiful actions hardly deserve be treated as an invasion with use of lethal force.
Ishihara is an ultra-rigth politician, and nothing can make him more happy than start a war. He re-ignited the conflict by saying that he wanted to buy the islands more likely for do something provocative like when years ago a bunch of ultra-rightwingers built a "lighthouse" there. That's why the leftists buyed the islands first but did nothing with the land. Despite paranoid chinese accusations of "a conspiracy between the left and right" for nationalize the islands and subsequent overreaction. Anyway, Ishihara's Restoration party only got 53 seats in the last election, the Lower House have a total of 480 seat meaning that control only 11% of the votes. In other words he represent the opinion of roughly 1 in 10 Japanese that bother to vote.
If the PLA Navy show their faces, then we send the MSDF. As I stated above most people agree that use military vessel for deal with civilian vessels even if they are from government agencies is overkill. You are just like Ishihara, you really want a war but your opinions seems to represent a minority of the population in both countries.
Because is just as stupid a building a "lighthouse".
Every day, China is playing hide-and-seek games with your coast guard and SDF forces, intruding into "your" waters and airspace, challenging your de facto control of the islands, and it is driving you guys crazy
Hide-and-seek games? You seems to have a very distorted image of the events. They all are on plain sigh shouting to each other with megaphones or over the radio about how the other side in the wrong side of the border, but in the end the Chinese vessels turn back. I think that most neutral observers think that is some kind of silly game.
We need new blood, is about have a more open inmigration policy for deal with the low birth rate.
I knew that somewhere must to be at least one point we can agree on. This type of revisionism is totally wrong.
I disagree, in my opinion the CCP blowed the pro-China faction in Japan in the 2010's Senkaku incident with their overreaction pushing Japan to the US side. Since then the PRC as keep losing supporters in the Asia-Pacific region with their "assertiveness".
No one in the Asia-Pacific region want to be "liberated" by China so it can be "dominated" by China. Looking to Tibetans and Uighurs make quite clear what happen to ethnic minorities under the CCP. But you ever heard the tale "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"? Well, if the CCP threaten many countries with war too much but never do it, it risk to end having the same image of the Kim dynasty in the DPRK. In Japan's case if the CCP lose a war against Japan they risk being overthrown by their people or their armed forces. We dont' think that is going to happen unless the CCP have an overwhelming numeric advantage in warships and that dont' seems to be happening in the short-term.
Japan is preparing for military aggression by China in 10-20 years and is integrating its army, air force and navy units in preparation for such a possibility, the Sankei newspaper reported Jan 1
So please dont' hold your breath. Have a nice day SinoChallenger.
SinoChallenger
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Ishihara denies all Japanese atrocities in WW2 and thinks Japan is the victim. Ishihara hates all other Asians and think Japanese race is closest to the "Western master race." Ishihara was mayor of Japan for 13 years. So don't try to peddle the claim that Japanese don't think like Ishihara does.
But Abe was elected by 70% of voters. He also said he will visit Yasukuni Shrine as PM. Japanese school textbooks teach that Japan was the victim in WW2. So it is clear that most Japanese people want to revise history. Now it is China's opportunity and duty to put Japan back in its place.
China never massacred 25% of the Uighur and Tibetan population like you Japanese did to the Ryukyu'ans. Let them decide for themselves whether they want to be a part of Japan or their own independent nation.
You do not need to wait for 10 to 20 years, China is already making aggressive moves to enforce our claims to Diaoyu Island and the East China Sea. Our claim is backed up by the second largest economy in the world, growing at 8% per year and the second most powerful military force on the planet.
Today Japan doesn't stand a chance against China in a war without USA's support and by the end of the decade China will grow so powerful even USA cannot save you. Territorial concession on Diaoyu Island and East China Sea is the only way to make peace with China. Otherwise, it's time to liberate Ryukyu Islands and impose the Potsdam declaration and peace constitution strictly on Japan. The final battle of WW2 in East Asia is yet to be fought!
Zero_wing
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Man please call the mental hospital they have a loose patient.
Yes he is a revisionist.
TOKYO--Shintaro Ishihara, the hawkish leader of Japan's so-called "third political force," said Tuesday that Japan could form an alliance with Vietnam and the Philippines to address the issue of China's increasing presence in their territorial waters.
"Japan's alliance with the United States is important, but in regard to the encroachment by China on territorial waters, Japan shares common issues with Vietnam and the Philippines, and could form an alliance with these nations on this matter," the former Tokyo governor said at a press conference.
Ishihara: Japan Should Consider Stronger Security Ties With Vietnam, Philippines November 20, 2012, 12:47 a.m. ET The Wall Street Journal
It seems like he suddenly re-discovered pan-asianism.
Some westerners disagree, because he make it sound like he think that the japanese are superior to the white men.
Being major of a city even if the most important city of the country, is not the same as being the Prime Minister of the country. The worries of farmers in Hokkaido or fishermen in Okinawa are not the same as the worries of office workers in Tokyo. If he was popular a national level he well be Prime Minister but he is not. That's undeniable.
The main worry of the Japanese people is the economy, not re-write history. The right won more because the left failed to deliver in the economic front than because the right promised a nationalist agenda.
We dont' see massive demostrations of japanese people on the streets protesting about how the current history text-books are writed.
During an interview with The Japan Times and other media outlets, Suga, Abe's right-hand man, said the Abe administration intends to uphold the Murayama statement.
Abe to leave Murayama war apology declaration alone, eye 'future-oriented' statement, Suga says Saturday, Jan. 5, 2013 By REIJI YOSHIDA Staff writer The Japan Times
Actually, some people may see the CCP's aggressive territorial claims as a chance for Japan for redeeming itself in the eyes of the rest of the world, by containing the PRC expansionism.
The Philippines would strongly support a rearmed Japan shorn of its pacifist constitution as a counterweight to the growing military assertiveness of China, according to the Philippine *foreign minister.
We would welcome that very much, Albert del Rosario told the Financial Times in an interview. We are looking for balancing factors in the region and Japan could be a significant balancing factor.
Philippines backs rearming of Japan By David Pilling and Roel Landingin in Manila and Jonathan Soble in Tokyo December 9, 2012 8:00 pm
We are a democracy, any time Okinawans can vote a politician proposing independence from Japan.
Unlike the PRC where the CCP forbid the right of self-determination and make the lives of minorities so miserable that people kill Han or commit suicide.
More "shouting contests"?
We are still waiting a "real invasion".
You sounds like a villain from a manga.
Evil Blah: I have defeated Super Blah! Now nothing can stop me! I will Take Over the World! I am invincible! Ahahahahahaha... I can, umm...
*View zooms out such that Zeeky H. Bomb is visible.*
Evil Blah: ... what the hell are you doing here?
Zeeky H. Bomb: Zeeky boogy doog!
*Cut to crudely drawn explosion.*
The Demented Cartoon Movie
If there is a day that we japanese think that our SDF no longer can protect us and that our allies the americans decide to pack their bags and go home. That day we start building nukes and we are going to thank the americans for all their help on it.
...The United States deliberately allowed Japan access to the United States most secret nuclear weapons facilities while it transferred tens of billions of dollars worth of American tax paid research that has allowed Japan to amass 70 tons of weapons grade plutonium since the 1980s, a National Security News Service investigation reveals...
...While Japan has refrained from deploying nuclear weapons and remains under an umbrella of U.S. nuclear protection, NSNS has learned that the country has used its electrical utility companies as a cover to allow the country to amass enough nuclear weapons materials to build a nuclear arsenal larger than China, India and Pakistan combined...
...Energy has always been Japans Achilles heel. Her need for oil in the face of an American embargo triggered Japans attack on Pearl Harbor, and the continued shortage was a recurring theme in her defeat in that war. Only one act could take more credit for Japans humiliation the splitting of the atom that gave birth to the nuclear bomb. Now Japan would turn that same atom to its own purposes to ensure a stable source of energy well into the next century and, equally important, to ensure that the homeland never again suffered the indignity of defeat...
...A nuclear-armed Japan would relieve much of the drain on American military resources. The need to keep two divisions on the ground in Korea, as well as nuclear armed ships and aircraft in the Pacific as a hedge against China and the missile bases in the Soviet Far East detracted from the Pentagons chief mission preparing for all-out war on the plains of Central Europe. The Reagan administrations strategy was to push the Soviet war machine until it broke, taking the Soviet Union and its satellite regimes with it. A more aggressive, nuclear-armed Japan would be a tremendous asset in this effort. So while Defense fought against the sea-shipment of plutonium on tactical grounds, its opposition to plutonium and technology transfer to Japan was only pro forma...
...Americas experience producing military plutonium at Savannah River was ideally suited for use in the Japanese program. Other U.S. weapons labs have also contributed to the Japanese program. Hanford and the Argonne-West laboratory in Idaho conducted thousands of hours of tests on plutonium fuel assemblies for the Joyo breeder reactor. Japanese scientists were integrally involved in these tests and had virtual free-run of the U.S. nuclear weapons establishment. If Japan does someday deploy nuclear weapons, it will have been made possible by the wholesale transfer of weapons-usable technology through the U.S.-Japan Agreement...
United States Circumvented Laws To Help Japan Accumulate Tons of Plutonium By Joseph Trento, on April 9th, 2012 National Security News Service
The Fatman atomic bomb dropped in Nagasaki was made with of 6.2 kg. of plutonium. We can build thousands.
In the short-term we can deploy a credible minimum second strike nuclear deterrence like Israel by using AIP submarines for fire nukes with cruise-missiles aiming to Beijing and a few other main cities. In the long-term, we can build hundreds of nukes in nuclear submarines armed with MIRVs in SLBMs. We have the money, we have the knowledge and the resources. DPRK, Pakistan, India, Israel, France, U.K. all have nukes, some crude, some advanced. If the US go, we build nukes, AKA "Plan B". In fact, it is not far-fetched the idea that some right-wing politicians propose that Japan provide a nuclear umbrella to allied countries in an Anti-China military coalition.
SinoChallenger
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So Japan is reduced to begging Vietnam and Philippines for help while our ships intrude into "Japanese" territory
In your school books, Japan was the victim of WW2 when it tried to liberate East Asia from Western imperialism!
Nice try but even South Korea sees through Abe's tricks. PM Park already sees Japan as the enemy. It's not surprising why.
TODAYonline | World | Seoul calls on Tokyo to face up to its past
Japanese PM denies wartime 'comfort women' were forced - Telegraph
South Korea repatriates Chinese arsonist after court rejects Japan's request to hand him over
Nice way to live up to your peace constitution
Not only are you the only country to get nuked, your secret stockpile of weapons-grade fissile materials stored in Fukushima melted down and leaked after the tsunami, turning your own northeast into irradiated land.
Japan has a lot of fissile material but it's a long long way to go from fissile material to an advanced MIRV thermonuclear warhead ballistic missile. The moment Japan tests a nuclear device.... well, you know what China will do
Zero_wing
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So Japan is reduced to begging Vietnam and Philippines for help while our ships intrude into "Japanese" territory
In your school books, Japan was the victim of WW2 when it tried to liberate East Asia from Western imperialism!
Nice try but even South Korea sees through Abe's tricks. PM Park already sees Japan as the enemy. It's not surprising why.
TODAYonline | World | Seoul calls on Tokyo to face up to its past
Japanese PM denies wartime 'comfort women' were forced - Telegraph
South Korea repatriates Chinese arsonist after court rejects Japan's request to hand him over
Not only are you the only country to get nuked, your secret stockpile of weapons-grade fissile materials stored in Fukushima melted down and leaked after the tsunami, turning your own northeast into irradiated land.
Japan has a lot of fissile material but it's a long long way to go from fissile material to an advanced MIRV thermonuclear warhead ballistic missile. The moment Japan tests a nuclear device.... well, you know what China will do
Again mental patient.
SinoChallenger
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More hard spanking for Japan!
Japan says China ships off disputed isles - Yahoo!7
Japan says China ships off disputed isles - Yahoo!7
LOL at shameless Pinoys worshipping Spanish, Americans and Japanese who massacred them and bugged them until they are surnamed Gonzales
So Japan is reduced to begging Vietnam and Philippines for help while our ships intrude into "Japanese" territory
Wise men make more friends.
Unwise men make more enemies.
Can you guess in wich group you seems to be?
Actually, our school text books say clearly that we started the war and made many terrible things. The right-wingers are trying very hard to change them. To be honest, they are very lacking on details, I want the books to be changed so it make sure that the children understand why some people cant' forgive us.
Only the Koreans can hate us Japanese more than the Chinese. What we did to them was so terrible that they still have nightmares of Japan invading them. I can understand that they dont' buy our apologies, because every once in a while a right-winger like Abe try to deny the crimes of our grandfathers. The fact is that after the war the US wanted to counter the expansion of communism and instead of jail a bunch members of the old empire, they give them jobs in the new Japan. So today, their descendants fill the right-wing and are war apologists. The majority of the people is tired of give apologies for the war crimes. But the majority have no interest in rebuild the old empire, being at peace and rich is good enough us, unlike China.
I thought that it was foolish... before the CCP started threatening with war countries in the Asia-Pacific region, Now I think that it can be the last hope of deterrence against China starting WWIII. Of course, only if the americans want to end the US-Japan alliance, as long as they want to be the peacekeeper in the Asia-pacific region we have only a support role.
I think that is going to take us a lot less time than the PRC trying to develop the same technology. In special if we partner with other country that want the same technology for example... India. Like the current partnership of DPRK and Iran or the past partnership between Israel and South Africa.
The moment Japan tests a nuclear device.... well, you know what China will do
Let' me guess, you never ever heard before of computer simulated nuclear tests. Unlike the DPRK, Japan dont' start from scratch. If we make an underground test, is going to be for demonstrate that our arsenal work fine enough for turn Beijing and a dozen more of the main cities of the PRC into radioactive wasteland with mushroom looking clouds on top.
Zero_wing
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More hard spanking for Japan!
Japan says China ships off disputed isles - Yahoo!7
LOL at shameless Pinoys worshipping Spanish, Americans and Japanese who massacred them and bugged them until they are surnamed Gonzales
And your still a mental patient
issue a warning, paste images of missiles on a forum.The moment Japan tests a nuclear device.... well, you know what China will do
JSCh
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I agree with you. What I do not understand is why Japan behaved as it did when it comes to WWII.
Why did Japan times and times again tolerate things that hurts the feelings of the victims of WWII, what purpose did it serve?
For nearly forty years, Chinese government has always emphasized friendship and while paying attention to "以史为鉴" (learning lesson from history), a lot of money and effort has been spent on program after program of people to people cultural exchange. It did not seem to work. Times and times again, the Japanese politician would just thumb her nose at China whenever is convenient and relation cool and then ice breaking, the cycle repeat once again.
Japan want to restore her pride as a nation, I think everybody can understand that. But why do you have to do it in a way that is at the expense of the people of your neighboring countries. Is it really worth it?
You guys gave all sort of excuse, but you guys do not seem to understand that for Chinese they are all pathetic excuse. As you said friend is important, why then put friendship in jeopardy for some gesture of national pride. Do the Japanese national pride really depend that much on such superficial gesture?
Can you guys understand that when Chinese see the Japanese putting such importance on these gesture, for Chinese, it means a hidden agenda of reviving some form of imperial Japan of the past. Because for Chinese, that would be the only logical explanation why Japan would trashed our mutually beneficial relationship.
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