China, India in competition to woo Bangladesh for defence deal

[Nilgiri]

And If I understand well it's that India not only divert water with farakka barrage but use it as geopolitical tool to blackmail as Tsunami bomb to control the fate of BD:

That threat has never been made (past a few defence types in some flame wars). It is thus not a geopolitical tool of any sort. However it is simply an existing reality that Bangladesh is mindful and will remain mindful of. There are very many red lines that they dare not pass before they reach this circuit breaker to see if India will employ it. So it is a moot point.

if BD bomb the barrage, they will be flooded, if they don't they will for ever at the mercy of India for water supply

Nope they are not at our mercy for even realised water supply. The numbers simply do not add up like I posted in the other thread.

What they are at mercy of is their own wasteful water use. That is within their control, not ours.

and if one day BD don't please India then you guys can just shut the water valve and BD will have to toasted

Again you show no idea or comprehension of how a dam/barrage works in the environment it operates. If you shut if off (close all sluice gates), tell me how long you expect the reservoir/diversion channel to accumulate/divert water before the hydraulic pressure, dam height or diversion channel (hoogly canal) is broken/flooded? You even know what safety factors are used in spillway design? Hint: its definitely not for long term 100% sluice gate closed....since even a junior hydraulic intern can tell you why.

This is not a tap that India decides to "turn off" permanently one fine day on its whim. It was not designed to do that (its main canal and feeders certainly were not - they are the restricting factor for a barrage).

At worst its a consumption/access % ratio, which I have already addressed.

ven farakka barrage is not from Brahmaputra, what may you India the right the divert this water for your own purpose but complain that China to do the same with Brahmaputra?

I never said so. India had some concerns and China has addressed them (by saying it will be largely run of river, not a huge diverter or large pondage project, which is just the way India won the case against Pakistan in the ICJ over the indus run of river dam project). China controls like 20% in best case scenario of what flows into India from Brahmaputra as I have already posted anyway. That's why India sent some diplomatic based concerns and they got addressed by China.....no court or arbitration was brought in (just like they wont be for India - BD either since BD knows what the real facts on the ground are and that its not worth wasting money on legal international arbitration).

Thats why you see nowhere near Indian based complaints like BD does (and even BD if you really look at it, is not a huge number of complaints given the flow is still quite large and the rest of the rivers they get are not touched by India at all). It will be worked out bilaterally over time.

maybe it's time for China to take a page out of India's book and put into practice.

You physically do not give any large % of any Indian river flow (compared to what India does for BD)....so good luck with that. The small (20%) flow you do control of Brahmaputra has already been addressed by Chinese govt in bilateral communique to India....as largely run of the river....thus India is satisfied for time being. India will monitor these projects and tell you if we have any further problems with them. And you want to make this 1 to 1 with India/BD situation.....ok!

And don't bullsh1t again, I has never claimed to be a strategist or military analysis.

OK....thats a good thing for you lol. Hope you read up more on all these things you want to discuss first rather than rushing to cheap forum talk. Prepare yourself better next time on this topic.

 

[idune]

Not one BD person has responded past that (because they know facts are not on their side).

So like I said no smart BD person (past the pavlovian china cheerleaders - and even they probably didnt understand or ignored what you implied) would want the BD military to blow up an Indian dam near their border in any hypothetical conflict. They actually would want India itself not to open up the sluice gates because that would be really bad news downstream.

That all has nothing to do with how much India "controls" of the Ganges river.

aha, yes BD people are not as smart as having a hanuman army or hindu priest first discovering nuclear power. indian are legendary for self boasting and talking trash.

That being said, india already open sluice gate every year and flood Bangladesh, there will be no additional bad news by getting rid of these dams. Removing these dams with whatever means or decision would be good not only for Bangladesh but also for indian states. And Bangladesh constructing barrage (which india obstructing using awami league regime) on Bangladesh side would solve good part of dry season water crisis. That means india will loose water tool and blackmailing capability against Bangladesh.

And If I understand well it's that India not only divert water with farakka barrage but use it as geopolitical tool to blackmail as Tsunami bomb to control the fate of BD: if BD bomb the barrage, they will be flooded, if they don't they will for ever at the mercy of India for water supply...and if one day BD don't please India then you guys can just shut the water valve and BD will have to toasted...and for the same reason you guys are so afraid that China will do the same to control the fate of India as you guys did to Bangladesh.

Even farakka barrage is not from Brahmaputra, what may you India the right the divert this water for your own purpose but complain that China to do the same with Brahmaputra? maybe it's time for China to take a page out of India's book and put into practice. And don't bullsh1t again, I has never claimed to be a strategist or military analysis.

You have caught the indian talking trash and Bangladesh had been dealing with these indian bs for more than 40 years.

 

[Nilgiri]

That being said, india already open sluice gate every year and flood Bangladesh, there will be no additional bad news by getting rid of these dams. Removing these dams with whatever means or decision would be good not only for Bangladesh but also for indian states. And Bangladesh constructing barrage (which india obstructing using awami league regime) on Bangladesh side would solve good part of dry season water crisis. That means india will loose water tool and blackmailing capability against Bangladesh.

You seem to have no idea how impulse removal of a dam or barrage would have on the transient river flow.

Read up what a surge is and how it is quite different from controlled sluice gate opening (during a spate to control canal flooding of barrage)....for millions of people living downstream.

Construct all the barrages you want on your side. BNP had how many years to do so? Why blame BAL?

The main issue is your own lack of investment and propensity for bad water management.....not the farakka or any other barrage BD hypothetically wants to construct.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

That threat has never been made (past a few defence types in some flame wars). It is thus not a geopolitical tool of any sort. However it is simply an existing reality that Bangladesh is mindful and will remain mindful of. There are very many red lines that they dare not pass before they reach this circuit breaker to see if India will employ it. So it is a moot point.



Nope they are not at our mercy for even realised water supply. The numbers simply do not add up like I posted in the other thread.

What they are at mercy of is their own wasteful water use. That is within their control, not ours.



Again you show no idea or comprehension of how a dam/barrage works in the environment it operates. If you shut if off (close all sluice gates), tell me how long you expect the reservoir/diversion channel to accumulate/divert water before the hydraulic pressure, dam height or diversion channel (hoogly canal) is broken/flooded? You even know what safety factors are used in spillway design? Hint: its definitely not for long term 100% sluice gate closed....since even a junior hydraulic intern can tell you why.

This is not a tap that India decides to "turn off" permanently one fine day on its whim. It was not designed to do that (its main canal and feeders certainly were not - they are the restricting factor for a barrage).

At worst its a consumption/access % ratio, which I have already addressed.



I never said so. India had some concerns and China has addressed them (by saying it will be largely run of river, not a huge diverter or large pondage project, which is just the way India won the case against Pakistan in the ICJ over the indus run of river dam project). China controls like 20% in best case scenario of what flows into India from Brahmaputra as I have already posted anyway. That's why India sent some diplomatic based concerns and they got addressed by China.....no court or arbitration was brought in (just like they wont be for India - BD either since BD knows what the real facts on the ground are and that its not worth wasting money on legal international arbitration).

Thats why you see nowhere near Indian based complaints like BD does (and even BD if you really look at it, is not a huge number of complaints given the flow is still quite large and the rest of the rivers they get are not touched by India at all). It will be worked out bilaterally over time.



You physically do not give any large % of any Indian river flow (compared to what India does for BD)....so good luck with that. The small (20%) flow you do control of Brahmaputra has already been addressed by Chinese govt in bilateral communique to India....as largely run of the river....thus India is satisfied for time being. India will monitor these projects and tell you if we have any further problems with them. And you want to make this 1 to 1 with India/BD situation.....ok!



OK....thats a good thing for you lol. Hope you read up more on all these things you want to discuss first rather than rushing to cheap forum talk. Prepare yourself better next time on this topic.

Sure India wouldn't dare explicitly make such threat knowing that it will make India look bad internationally nervetheless India's intention is pretty Clair, if farakka barrage is not a threat to BD then why not set it free and let water to flow on it natural course? and to keep the debate short now answer this question if you dare what if China do the same by building a barrage to hold the water and divert it for our own usage same as India did, is that OK?

 

[MultaniGuy]

China will win the defence sale contracts.

 

[Nilgiri]

nervetheless India's intention is pretty Clair

Yet no action by BD in any international courts. Not even by the anti-India BNP administration (which was in power for long time periods where they easily could have done so). Issue is the facts on the ground do not meet the BD nationalistic propaganda (which is made for their domestic political consumption).

if farakka barrage is not a threat to BD then why not set it free and let water to flow on it natural course?

This makes no sense. What are you even asking? That we built the barrage to stop a river-based threat to BD?

Farakka diverts about 10% of the water for the hooghly river for Kolkata region and its harbour .... sometimes with sedimentation, BD claims its half the flow in the lean seasons.

There was a need for this and the barrage addresses it while not denying BD of substantial river flow either.

and to keep the debate short now answer this question if you dare what if China do the same by building a barrage to hold the water and divert it for our own usage same as India did, is that OK?

A barrage does not hold water (it diverts a portion). A reservoir dam holds water.

If China does build something that diverts 100% or holds back significant amount of its flow, India will pursue action as far as what 20% (or close to that) of flow being denied would entail (arbitration etc given Chinese membership in many organisations that concern international water sharing).....given 80% is still under the control of India (and thus would not be a massive existential priority for the N.E region). A full diversion by China also means BD would join this arbitration given they are also affected by your action. It would affect them much more than India given N.E is not the totality of India (but BD is the totality of itself obviously) and neither does N.E India crucially have anywhere near the level of population density as BD (where a 20% permanent diversion by China would significantly impact BD given even 5% variation from year to year does so for them).

Thus China does not even enter this scenario by respecting the concern of India and BD and creating run of the river projects (no significant pondage or diversion) only.