China-India Geopolitics: News & Discussions

[Tom99]

Not every country has the same fate.
China has DJI today, no such company 2 decades ago. But by logics you can't assume another country will have a same DJI 2 decades later.

The development and progress of most normal countries are not based on some fate but rather the functional government, the hardworking citizens and its internal drives. India constitutes around 20% of the world's population. Within this large mass of people, there are some very hardworking and smart Indians. Looking back, was China fated to be poor and broken some decades ago? No, look how far China have came when its government and people worked together for a better future. With today's globalization of shared ideas and knowledge through the internet and research papers, technological developments are speeding up. There is no hard barrier for India, Indonesia or even Philippines to be able to come up with a DJI2 in a decade or two.

 

[AndrewJin]

The development and progress of most normal countries are not based on some fate but rather the functional government, the hardworking citizens and its internal drives. India constitutes around 20% of the world's population. Within this large mass of people, there are some very hardworking and smart Indians. Looking back, was China fated to be poor and broken some decades ago? No, look how far China have came when its government and people worked together for a better future. With today's globalization of shared ideas and knowledge through the internet and research papers, technological developments are speeding up. There is no hard barrier for India, Indonesia or even Philippines to be able to come up with a DJI2 in a decade or two.

again, every country is different.
I personally never put one country's development trajectory onto another country.

Your comment on DJI is really ill-informed, as long as you have some basic information about the competition in this sector.

Your comment resonates with the Indian chemistry student in PDF, that every nation will reach the same development level sometime. It never happens in human civilization history for the recent several thousand years, so i'd rather not reach any conclusive argument. Every nation has smart people, it is the average people that matter.

 

[Han Patriot]

This doesn't include ASP though.

Average selling price.

Westerners buy more expensive phones, so even if their volume in numbers will be lower the actual market value will be higher. Also in that case indias actual market value will be even lower.



But india like China in the past doesn't want that role. It will gradually shift or at least grow better in structure.

Also, this is already the case in some specific sectors. For example, India imports APIs from China and then exports formulated generics to the west. In this case india essentially is importing a pharmaceutical raw product from China.

APIs are not just your day to day iron ore low level raw material. India do not and cannot manufacture a lot of the APIs needed to make those generic drugs for the pharma industry. Some of those APIs require advanced processes. The only reason Indian pharma is doing great at the moment is due to FDA certification, again it boils down to English.

The Chinese generic drugs companies do not adhere to FDA standards and are not familiar with FDA certification, hence a lot of those cheap Chinese generics cannot flood the west yet.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

APIs are not just your day to day iron ore low level raw material. India do not and cannot manufacture a lot of the APIs needed to make those generic drugs for the pharma industry. Some of those APIs require advanced processes. The only reason Indian pharma is doing great at the moment is due to FDA certification, again it boils down to English.

The Chinese generic drugs companies do not adhere to FDA standards and are not familiar with FDA certification, hence a lot of those cheap Chinese generics cannot flood the west yet.

Umm no. We did actually make a lot of APIs, but don't do anymore largely because of the cost.

Some APIs are sure relatively advanced products, but a lot of them are actually very simple compounds.

Also, there is far more to Indian generic industry than just FDA and English. In fact, China exports a huge amount of APIs and basic drugs to US, all of which are certified by FDA. China wouldn't be doing that if they had problem with FDA. There are today a huge Chinese working class that has not only studied abroad, but are fluent in English. That is not the issue.

Also, a lot of mineral ores and metals also require advanced processes, so they are not low tech either in that way.

 

[Han Patriot]

Umm no. We did actually make a lot of APIs, but don't do anymore largely because of the cost.

Some APIs are sure relatively advanced products, but a lot of them are actually very simple compounds.

So if it's so simple why do you need to import from China in the billions? If cost is the case, sooner of later you might even need to import Chinese geenric drugs and relabel it made in India. LOL

Also, there is far more to Indian generic industry than just FDA and English. In fact, China exports a huge amount of APIs and basic drugs to US, all of which are certified by FDA. China wouldn't be doing that if they had problem with FDA. There are today a huge Chinese working class that has not only studied abroad, but are fluent in English. That is not the issue.

Also, a lot of mineral ores and metals also require advanced processes, so they are not low tech either in that way.

It is that simple, generic drugs do not require much innovation, you wait till the patent expires, then you copy, you think the Chinis cannot figure this out? We have gazillions of generic drug makers in China, from shit quality (that's what indian imports like crazy) to platinum quality. Some Chinese companies have started to have proper FDA certification process and exports to the West but the majority are still concentrating on the domestic market.

Comparing complex pharmaceutical compounds to iron ore. Great Indic logic! LOL

 

[AndrewJin]

So if it's so simple why do you need to import from China in the billions? If cost is the case, sooner of later you might even need to import Chinese geenric drugs and relabel it made in India. LOL


It is that simple, generic drugs do not require much innovation, you wait till the patent expires, then you copy, you think the Chinis cannot figure this out? We have gazillions of generic drug makers in China, from shit quality to platinum quality. Some Chinese companies have started to have proper FDA certification process and exports to the West but the majority are still concentrating on the domestic market.

Comparing complex pharmaceutical compounds to iron ore. Great Indic logic! LOL

Many Chinese companies and researchers' focus are on original drugs. One example is an intraocular drug to stop neovascularisation of the retina. There are some drugs of similar function from the west, they used to dominate China's huge market for this type of drugs. And none of them have expired and none could be legally copied in india. As a consequence of the fierce competition, the price of imported drugs has been cut for more than three quarters!

 

[Han Patriot]

Many Chinese companies and researchers' focus are on original drugs. One example is an intraocular drug to stop neovascularisation of the retina. There are some drugs of similar function from the west, they used to dominate China's huge market for this type of drugs. And none of them have expired and none could be legally copied in india. As a consequence of the fierce competition, the price of imported drugs has been cut for more than three quarters!

That's the problem with Chinese companies, they always want to compete with those big western pharma companies. My advice is start eating the generics pie while concurrently compete on original innovative drugs.

Destroy the Indian pharma companies, we can and should compete with them. Their only advantage is certification and an earlier starting point. China's pharma industry was nearly non-existent 20 years ago. We already control 80% of their API market, without it, their industry is as good as dead. Learn to harness our potential.

Wuxi Apptec is already the largest CRO company in the world, providing contract research for all major pharma companies. We have the expertise domestically.

 

[Han Patriot]

Already imports are dropping as soon as duty exceptions removed. ENJOY.
"
Bulk drug imports from China drop after govt scraps customs exemption
By Veena Mani | New Delhi | 22 Mar 2017 00:30 am


Photo: Shutterstock
Bulk drug imports from China dropped to Rs 9,120.8 crore in 2016-17 from 13,853.20 crore a year ago, following the government's withdrawal of customs duty exemption on certain categories. The exemption was withdrawn to provide a level playing field to domestic manufacturers."



Frankly no one wants to use dubious products from china in India.
When pkaying field is levelled, you can see the result.

No one wants to use "dubious" Chinese products in India? but the problem is you are already using it amass, while Chinese platinum quality exports to other countries, because indians are simply poor. I hope you tariffs are successful, do you want to bet with me, it will rise again? How does imposing tariffs create a level playing field? India can't even produce certain complex APIs.

 

[AndrewJin]

That's the problem with Chinese companies, they always want to compete with those big western pharma companies. My advice is start eating the generics pie while concurrently compete on original innovative drugs.

Destroy the Indian pharma companies, we can and should compete with them. Their only advantage is certification and an earlier starting point. China's pharma industry was nearly non-existent 20 years ago. We already control 80% of their API market, without it, their industry is as good as dead. Learn to harness our potential.

Wuxi Apptec is already the largest CRO company in the world, providing contract research for all major pharma companies. We have the expertise domestically.

I partly agree.
But copying drugs when patents expire only encourage quick money, just like in the case of india.
You never hear about successful original products from them in major consuming market.
In the long run, it is disastrous for a country.
Have you heard about the Chinese idiom 嗟来之食？

When we look at consumer drone market, why could DJI dominate the world?
By just copying?
There are lots of companies both in China and the West that follow DJI.
Yes, many of them could make money and let their workers earn a living.
But none would be like DJI whose profit margin is huge and future trend is unstoppable.
Clearly, we will see some drone companies to copy DJI's latest design, can you actually name them?

 

[Han Patriot]

Dear han , what will happen in the future only you chinese can predict , but i am giving you the facts at the moment that in 1 year we eliminated 34 % basic medicine raw mtl import from china.
And tarrifs were not imposed , the custom exceptions enjoyed by chinese were eliminated. Pl. Read my quote carefully..

Explain to me customs exemptions? If you eliminated customs exemptions, means you imposed tariffs, genius. China controls 50% of the world global API market exporting 50bil$ USD. Eliminate that hero!

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

So if it's so simple why do you need to import from China in the billions? If cost is the case, sooner of later you might even need to import Chinese geenric drugs and relabel it made in India. LOL


It is that simple, generic drugs do not require much innovation, you wait till the patent expires, then you copy, you think the Chinis cannot figure this out? We have gazillions of generic drug makers in China, from shit quality (that's what indian imports like crazy) to platinum quality. Some Chinese companies have started to have proper FDA certification process and exports to the West but the majority are still concentrating on the domestic market.

Comparing complex pharmaceutical compounds to iron ore. Great Indic logic! LOL

First try to understand the answer before replying.

Second try to ask yourselves if what you are saying makes sense.

As for APIs, in most of them, not all, cost is the overwhelming factor. And yes, indian generics industry can be threatened by china. I agree.

Also, generics are indeed low innovation, yet this doesn't mean that some skill is not needed to produce them.

As for iron ore and pharmaceutical products, I as a chemical engineer am well positioned to answer this. If you see correctly, I said that the processes involved are equally complex. Key word: processes.

Now I am busy these days and I don't wish to continue. If you can't agree with these basic facts, so be it.

No one wants to use "dubious" Chinese products in India? but the problem is you are already using it amass, while Chinese platinum quality exports to other countries, because indians are simply poor. I hope you tariffs are successful, do you want to bet with me, it will rise again? How does imposing tariffs create a level playing field? India can't even produce certain complex APIs.

Man, have you ever seen the difference between tariffs in US and China? China has high tariffs where it suits it as well.

If you have a problem, take it up with the WTO.

That's the problem with Chinese companies, they always want to compete with those big western pharma companies. My advice is start eating the generics pie while concurrently compete on original innovative drugs.

Destroy the Indian pharma companies, we can and should compete with them. Their only advantage is certification and an earlier starting point. China's pharma industry was nearly non-existent 20 years ago. We already control 80% of their API market, without it, their industry is as good as dead. Learn to harness our potential.

Wuxi Apptec is already the largest CRO company in the world, providing contract research for all major pharma companies. We have the expertise domestically.

Again the main advantage has never been certification. All chinese bulk drug and API manufacturers have to get US FDA approval and pass quality checks to export. They are very adept at getting those.

 

[Han Patriot]

First try to understand the answer before replying.

Second try to ask yourselves if what you are saying makes sense.

As for APIs, in most of them, not all, cost is the overwhelming factor. And yes, indian generics industry can be threatened by china. I agree.

OK, let me re-explain it in simpler terms for your genius brain to understand, I said if the matter was so simple and cost is the only factor, then why the heck India still buy billions from China, since Indian professional and lower skilled manpower cost is 3x cheaper than China. And logically since the end user is in India, infrastructure wouldn't be the main constraint. Why not set up shop in India and produce it directly for the end user with such a low cost structure in India. There is even a ready market waiting for you. Get the logic?

Also, generics are indeed low innovation, yet this doesn't mean that some skill is not needed to produce them.

As for iron ore and pharmaceutical products, I as a chemical engineer am well positioned to answer this. If you see correctly, I said that the processes involved are equally complex. Key word: processes.

Great selling iron ore is now a more complex venture than producing pharmaceutical ingredients. I guess those African countries selling China iron ore can produce APIs too since it's the same complexity.

Man, have you ever seen the difference between tariffs in US and China? China has high tariffs where it suits it as well.

If you have a problem, take it up with the WTO.

Again the main advantage has never been certification. All chinese bulk drug and API manufacturers have to get US FDA approval and pass quality checks to export. They are very adept at getting those.

I can't take it up to WTO man, PRC needs to do it. LOL. I am just saying don't portray yourselves as laying a level playing field since it's just tariff protection. Is China guilty of protectionism in some cases? Of course. Can India protect her minuscule API industry, of course. Just don't act holier than thou by claiming, you are having a level playing field.

Yah, I am sure those drugs exported to Indonesia, South America and Africa needs the uber professional FDA approved facilities.

 

[AndrewJin]

China has one of the highest per capita comsumption of fruits in the world,
india should think about their own problems why nobody hears about indian mango but everyone in China knows Thai mango....
India has very little to offer for Chinese consumers, beef and mango could be a good start.

India hopes to win Chinese hearts with mangoes

Beijing granted market access to the Indian fruit in 2004, but it is yet to become commercially viable
India is planning to organise a ‘mango festival’ in China and South Korea for the first time to boost exports of the 'king of fruits'.

Though China had granted market access to Indian mangoes in 2004, it is yet to become ‘effective’ and commercially meaningful, official sources told The Hindu, adding that China’s import of the fruit from India has so far been minuscule. In 2015-16, India’s exports of mangoes to China were worth just ₹24,000 out of India’s total mango exports of ₹317.1 crore. This was the case in volume terms as well — of the total mango exports of 36,329 MT in 2015-16, China accounted for only 0.5 MT.

To increase exports to China, the plan now is to hold a ‘mango festival’ in Beijing to promote Indian mangoes sources said, emulating the example of Thailand which saw a surge in demand for its fruits after it showcased them.

Exporters lukewarm

Chairman of the Agricultural and Processed Food Products Export Development Authority (APEDA), Devendra Kumar Singh, told The Hindu that while talks were on for organising an Indian mango festival in China, not many Indian exporters had shown interest in it.

Meanwhile, an APEDA trade notice to exporters on May 9 said: “In continuation of the opening of Chinese market for Indian mangoes in 2004, APEDA took up the issue through Embassy of India in China for addition of more mango pack houses to be registered with Chinese authorities.”


The APEDA said South Korea had opened its market for Indian mangoes for the 2017 season. Mr. Singh said the Indian mango festival is slated to be held in South Korea during May 25-27 and around ten leading Indian exporters of the fruit will participate.

He added that there were also plans to hold an Indian mango festival in Mumbai on June 5-6 where around 30 international buyers will take part. These include ten each from China and Iran, four each from Japan and Mauritius and two from Australia.

According to worldsrichestcountries.com, data sourced from International Trade Centre showed that in 2015, China was the third largest mango importer globally and top importer of the fruit in Asia with imports of the fruit worth $260.2 million. In 2015, South Korea was the fifth largest mango importer in Asia with imports to the tune of $55.6 million.

According to the APEDA, India has around 1,000 mango varieties, though only a few varieties are commercially cultivated.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Your comment resonates with the Indian chemistry student in PDF

Interesting why not Physics or Mathematics or Geography?

Every nation has smart people, it is the average people that matter.

Actually NOT. Large scale systems like nations etc are more decided by outliers and black swans. The results follow more of a power law and less of a gaussian law. Most of the Indian economic growth and income comes from few big players like Tata, Ambani etc. This will become even more true as things move towards automation. Few folks with high skills will dominate most of the production and economic output.

Don't believe me? Just do this thought experiment suggested by Nassim Taleb.

Think of tallest person that you know. Now think 1000 people randomly selected from any group you want and their avarage height. Even if you add the tallest person in that group the avarage height of the group will not change much.

Now do the same with wealth. Think of 1000 randomly selected folks and calculate their avarage wealth. Now add someone like Jack Ma or Bill Gates in the group. Suddenly the avarage wealth of the group becomes HUGE.

All the natural parameters like height weight etc etc etc are more of a function of avarage or median. The social or economic parameters like wealth income etc etc etc are more of a function of extremes. India needs a limited number of such extremes and freedom to them to grow in order to grow rapidly. This is why economic liberalisation is more important than toilets, education, health etc etc etc.

 

[AndrewJin]

We can watch tons of videos shot by DJI drones on video websites.
But very very very few videos are from india.

Retail sales of india in 2016 was merely one trillion dollars, pathetically low for so many people.

When their salary increases, I hope they have some extra money to buy DJI drones, joining the world's drone lovers to record the beauty of the world.....

Well, they have to buy using real money
instead of PPP money which they are talking about all the time.

This will be very helpful to China-India trade....