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China Inc.’s Boeing Rival Just Won’t Fly

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there is a word for what you said. it is called chutzpah
look it up



USA has the largest civil aviation market. Given geography and chinese reliance on HSR it is not going to change in a long time. Look at combat aircraft. China has not gone anywhere

China has not gone anywhere in combat aircraft? :lol:

J-10 (4.5 generation multirole)
J-11 (4.5 generation air superiority)
J-15 (4.5 generation naval)
J-16 (4.5 generation strike)
J-20 (5th generation air superiority)
J-31 (5th generation multirole)

Y-9 (tactical transport)
Y-20 (strategic transport)
 
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You are trying to sweep under table. Its only China start making decision to ban B737 Max 8 that forces FAA and Boeing to ground. China airline safety standard is much superior than US. Your cheapshot will not work.

Everybody knows US try sweep under table and ignoring problem.

The FAA and Boeing has never swept a mistake under table. They have been slow in a few cases.
Without China Boeing has to address this issue. There are 100+ 737s worldwide

China has not gone anywhere in combat aircraft? :lol:

J-10 (4.5 generation multirole)
J-11 (4.5 generation air superiority)
J-15 (4.5 generation naval)
J-16 (4.5 generation strike)
J-20 (5th generation air superiority)
J-31 (5th generation multirole)

J-11, J-15 and J-16 are replicas of Russian models
How many J-10, J-20 and J-31 have been sold to foreign countries ? I am not saying they are duds. Or how many wars have these aircraft seen ?
 
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Like this kind of articles. It just shows they are challenged and feel the crisis right now.
We just can not find a article entitled india Inc.’s Boeing Rival Just Won’t Fly...

Although we have over 22,000 km of high-speed railway, our aviation is NOT small... Second only to the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_largest_airlines
upload_2019-3-22_12-26-8.png


Our domestic market can feed one big plane manufacturer like COMAC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airlines_of_China
 
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Like this kind of articles. It just shows they are challenged and feel the crisis right now.
We just can not find a article entitled india Inc.’s Boeing Rival Just Won’t Fly...

Although we have over 22,000 km of high-speed railway, our aviation is NOT small... Second only to the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_largest_airlines
View attachment 548310

Our domestic market can feed one big plane manufacturer like COMAC.

Quit making a crisis where there is None. this is not a serious crisis for Boeing. there are fixes for the problem
737 Max is less than 3% of total worldwide Boeing fleet.

China is 2nd largest market for civil aviation
 
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J-11, J-15 and J-16 are replicas of Russian models
How many J-10, J-20 and J-31 have been sold to foreign countries ? I am not saying they are duds. Or how many wars have these aircraft seen ?

You said China has not gone anywhere in combat aircraft.

I’ve given you multiple combat aircraft that China has developed. All these aircraft have been developed in China using Chinese components. J-11, J-15, J-16 have Chinese components. Engines is the only issue. But even in engines China has made progress with WS-10, WS-15, WS-20.

It’s about being able to indigenously produce a combat aircraft without foreign components. That’s independence. China is very close to that goal.
 
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You said China has not gone anywhere in combat aircraft.

I’ve given you multiple combat aircraft that China has developed. All these aircraft have been developed in China using Chinese components. J-11, J-15, J-16 have Chinese components. Engines is the only issue. But even in engines China has made progress with WS-10, WS-15, WS-20.

It’s about being able to indigenously produce a combat aircraft without foreign components. That’s independence. China is very close to that goal.

even reverse engineering and copying is a considerable achievement
but the design is a replica of russian model
 
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Chinese domestic carriers can sustain the comac models until comac makes a competitive design.
 
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He's Indian?

Yes. Isn't it obvious from the way he debates?

:lol:

***

Like this kind of articles. It just shows they are challenged and feel the crisis right now.
We just can not find a article entitled india Inc.’s Boeing Rival Just Won’t Fly...

Although we have over 22,000 km of high-speed railway, our aviation is NOT small... Second only to the US

Indeed. These articles are not products of confidence, but fear.

They still feel the pain from Beijing's move to ground all Boeing and the global suspicions over the company, which has led, for now, a major Indonesian air fleet company to cancel orders - as far as I know.

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I’d agree that COMAC is still decades away from reaching parity with Boeing and Airbus as Boeing has been trading for almost 100 years and Airbus for 50 years or so. It is a long journey and as long as we work on the fundamentals steadily we will catch up. 10 to 15 years ago, no one would have predicted Chinese companies like Huawei would be leading the next generation of telecommunication technology and it was the result of decades of ground work.

That being said, aircraft manufacturing is considered as the crown jewelry of modern industry and is a reflection of industry development. If COMAC can reach the parity one day, it means China would have covered the whole spectrum of modern industry.
 
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China Inc.’s Boeing Rival Just Won’t Fly
A small order from an African airline can’t diminish the huge challenge Comac faces to disrupt the aviation duopoly.

By David Fickling - March 21, 2019 - Bloomberg

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Not ready for prime time: the C919. - Photographer: Qilai Shen/Bloomberg

It’s generally seen as a good thing for an aircraft manufacturer when an airline plans to buy its planes. So Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China Ltd. — the country’s would-be challenger to Boeing Co. and Airbus SE — should have a lot to celebrate.

Ghana’s Africa World Airlines Ltd. may agree to buy two of Comac’s ARJ21 regional jets this month, the carrier’s Chief Executive Officer John Quan told Moses Mozart Dzawu and Bruce Einhorn of Bloomberg News in an interview.

That looks like a fillip for Comac, especially considering the problems of Boeing’s 737 Max, which was grounded by Beijing’s regulators after two crashes in five months and now will be potentially excluded from a China-U.S. trade deal. The Chinese manufacturer would like to disrupt the existing commercial aircraft duopoly. Overseas purchases for the ARJ21 look like a step down that road.

Not so fast. Such a small order — from an airline part-owned by China’s debt-ridden HNA Group Co., no less — is hardly a ringing endorsement for a plane that’s been in development for the best part of two decades. Moreover, the travails of the 737 Max demonstrate just how challenging developing new aircraft is in the 21st century, let alone for a newcomer like Comac.

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About 60 percent of global air traffic passes through Europe or the U.S., and the two regions will still account for about half of the total by 2037, according to Boeing. As a result, it’s essential for any manufacturer seeking global relevance to get its planes certified as airworthy by the Federal Aviation Administration or European Aviation Safety Agency.

Without that piece of paper, aircraft are excluded from swaths of the world’s aviation market. That’s both a near-term problem — removing flexibility for global airlines in how they deploy their fleet — and a long-term one, killing off the bulk of the secondary market that carriers depend on for selling their worn-out aircraft.

With all their expertise at rolling out new models, Boeing and Airbus still struggle to complete that type certification in less than five years. One of the questions needing answers around the 737 Max is whether Boeing’s attempts to speed that process led to safety failures.

Comac first lodged an application for its would-be 737- and A320-killer, the C919, with the European regulator in 2016, so the best it could hope for would be to see approval some time in 2021. In the case of the ARJ21s being sent to Ghana, the process of winning certification from major regulators proved so challenging that Comac ultimately gave up. When the Republic of Congo — not exactly a major aviation market — became the first foreign country to award a type certificate two years ago, the manufacturer regarded it as enough of a milestone to put out a press release celebrating the fact.

Progress on getting the C919 certified seems to be going slowly, too. Comac plans to carry out 4,200 hours of flight tests, but the third of six planned prototypes took its maiden flight only in December and the rest won’t be ready until later this year. Flying all six for an hour a day, 365 days a year would require two years of testing alone, and even that looks ambitious. Existing prototypes are laid up undergoing modifications for as long as three months, the state-run China Daily reported last month. That could seriously push back the timetable.

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If everything goes to plan, it’s possible to see the C919 getting its paperwork in order before the start of 2022 — but at this rate, a date closer to 2025 would hardly be surprising. At current targeted production rates of around 60 a month for the A320neo and 737 Max, there will already be little shy of 10,000 competing Airbus and Boeing planes in the air by that time, and Boeing’s planned new midsize aircraft could be nearing its first deliveries.

Meanwhile, with maximum ranges about a third less than its competitors and the capacity to carry only about three-quarters of the weight of passengers and cargo, the C919 will be looking a generation out of date. Given it’s largely made of parts from conventional suppliers such as Honeywell International Inc. and General Electric Co., it’s going to be supremely challenging for Comac to find the cost savings necessary to undercut Boeing and Airbus outside China, where airlines will be more or less obliged to support the homegrown hero.

As George Ferguson and Francois Duflot of Bloomberg Intelligence wrote this week, all this means that rumors of an outright Chinese ban on the 737 Max are more likely to be posturing than serious proposals. At some point, the successors to the C919 may pose a formidable threat to Boeing and Airbus. For the next decade, though, the incumbents need not fret.

Source :. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...-plane-isn-t-ready-to-challenge-boeing-airbus

I hate to break it to you, but the C919 isn't just flying, it is on track for certification by next year and has already received 1000+ orders. And that is for an unproven aircraft from an unproven manufacturer. What do you think its order book is going to look like once it gets certified and enters mass production?

The Boeing 737 first flew on 9 Apr 1967.
The Airbus 320 first flew on 22 Feb 1987. It is a 20 year newer design than Boeing's.
Airbus (as of 31 Dec 2018) had 6576 orders for its A320 compared to Boeing which had 4763 orders for its 737.

The Comac C919 first flew on 5 May 2017. It is a 50 year newer design than Boeing's. Think about that for a while.
It is also a 30 year newer design than Airbus's.

This is the reason why both Boeing and Airbus rushed to re-engine their planes because their aircraft are inferior compared to the newer designs like C919, MS-21 and Bombardier CS300.

China has a domestic market that will purchase 7000 or 9000 planes in the next 20 years (depending on whether you believe Airbus or Comac). The business is worth $ 1 trillion - 1.3 trillion.

Do you seriously expect Comac to not get the lion's share from out of this demand? After the decades of effort and tens of billions of dollars that China has spent building Comac and developing the C919 and C929?

Do you seriously expect the C919 to not sell in the international market?
 
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