What's new

China has developed new generation powder that is 100x more powerful than TNT

I pity the Chinese nationalists and military enthusiasts who go gaga over something without even understanding it and make some really weird claims about it. Let us see how :-

The Actual Research done by Zang et al.

No one bothered to read the actual research papers and tried to understand the real contribution of the group.
These papers are :-

1. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/355/6323/374 (Paper 1)

In this paper the research group presented a salt of pentazolate ion in bulk which was surprisingly stable at 117 degree Celcius. Before this pentazolate ion was seen in spectrometry, solution and under extreme pressure (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentazole). This was the first time someone has prepared a salt which was not only stable at room temprature but also remarkably stable at higher temperature. The author mentioned that it has a potential for a high explosive component.

The remarkable feat in this research was not discovering a massively powerful explosive but stabilizing a theoretically extremely unstable molecule/ion.

Read the actual comments by their peer chemical engineers

http://www.acsh.org/news/2017/02/14/pentazole-first-synthesis-one-unhappy-molecule-10854


2. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201701070/full (Paper 2)

In this paper the authors presented a Metal - Pentazolate complex which was stable at room temperature. It is one of the very few such molecule. The authors also studied its structure and thermal stability. No where in the paper the specific energy of explosive ( say X Joules / mg) was determined ( I will cover this a bit more later).

The remarkable feat in this research was a high nitrogen compound which is stable at room temperature. The author also determined it contained more energy than their previously discovered compound by DSC.

What Chinese Military Enthusiasts Claimed


10-100x higher than TNT explosive discovered by Chinese
Nothing of this sort is covered in these research papers. In fact these research papers do not even talk about specific energy of the molecules they have synthesized. All they have covered which is REMOTELY related to this is Thermal Analysis, namely TG-DSC analysis for which we have been given three graphs :-

From the Second Paper (for Cobalt complex of cyclo-N5 anion)
View attachment 392349

View attachment 392351

From the first paper (DTG DSC TG graph of (N5)6(H3O)3(NH4)4Cl )

View attachment 392352

All of these plots indicate the kind of decomposition the molecule goes. To actually calculate specific heat of decomposition in J/g, you will need to find the apparatus constant of the equipment by heating a known mass of indium or other sample and comparing the area under curve of that with values in literature. Then you can calculate the specific heat of decomposition by

Hdecom = Area under peak * Apparatus constant.

Now since we do not have access to the equipment nor we have apparatus constant given in these papers the claimed Specific Energy wrt TNT are just wild guesses with no relation to reality.

Further damning proof to this is the theoretical Energy density of N8 and Cubic Gauche Nitrogen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octaazacubane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_nitrogen#Cubic_gauche

Which are respectively 22.9 KJ / g and 33 KJ /g being 5 and 7.5 times more powerful compared to TNT. Out of these Cubic Gauche Nitrogen is though to be theoretically most energy dense non-nuclear material predicted. (http://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.1814074)

How come the molecules mentioned above are more energetic than that is still beyond me. It is noteworthy that original researcher (Zeng et al) never claimed this.

i don't think the Chinese are bragging at all. If you check the research paper you posted, they didn't publish all information on the explosive power, but a government paper announcing it's potential for 100x more powerful than TNT. What conclusion can you make here? Were they lying or bragging? I think it's more like they are withholding information. Normally, what the Chinese government announces officially, it will be done or had already been achieved. The culture is completely different from the typical Indian.

Can you explain to me why it's a lie? Let's us breakdown the facts one by one and analyze.
 
.
i don't think the Chinese are bragging at all. If you check the research paper you posted, they didn't publish all information on the explosive power, but a government paper announcing it's potential for 100x more powerful than TNT. What conclusion can you make here? Were they lying or bragging? I think it's more like they are withholding information. Normally, what the Chinese government announces officially, it will be done or had already been achieved. The culture is completely different from the typical Indian.

Can you explain to me why it's a lie? Let's us breakdown the facts one by one and analyze.
Did you read my post?

Specifically this part

Further damning proof to this is the theoretical Energy density of N8 and Cubic Gauche Nitrogen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octaazacubane
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_nitrogen#Cubic_gauche

Which are respectively 22.9 KJ / g and 33 KJ /g being 5 and 7.5 times more powerful compared to TNT. Out of these Cubic Gauche Nitrogen is though to be theoretically most energy dense non-nuclear material predicted. (http://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.1814074)

Scientists have already predicted a pure Nitrogen allotrope with maximum energy density. That is around 7.5 times more energetic than TNT. And it is theoretically most energetic material possible. Read those papers. BTW, when it comes to explosive nitrogen compounds, like the one presented in research here, percentage of nitrogen is a good predictor of energy density.

So how come the claim of being 10-100x more energetic material holds water? BTW, in Science, extraordinary claims require extra-ordinary proof. Most probably government didn't make any such claims, neither did the Chinese researchers. It was Chinese bloggers, nationalists and media persons.

FYI, I have all the papers which these folks published regarding this research and I have read them in depth.
 
Last edited:
.
i don't think the Chinese are bragging at all. If you check the research paper you posted, they didn't publish all information on the explosive power, but a government paper announcing it's potential for 100x more powerful than TNT. What conclusion can you make here? Were they lying or bragging? I think it's more like they are withholding information. Normally, what the Chinese government announces officially, it will be done or had already been achieved. The culture is completely different from the typical Indian.

Can you explain to me why it's a lie? Let's us breakdown the facts one by one and analyze.
100 times more powerful than TNT? wow!
 
. .
Did you read my post?

Specifically this part



Scientists have already predicted a pure Nitrogen allotrope with maximum energy density. That is around 7.5 times more energetic than TNT. And it is theoretically most energetic material possible. Read those papers. BTW, when it comes to explosive nitrogen compounds, like the one presented in research here, percentage of nitrogen is a good predictor of energy density.

So how come the claim of being 10-100x more energetic material holds water? BTW, in Science, extraordinary claims require extra-ordinary proof. Most probably government didn't make any such claims, neither did the Chinese researchers. It was Chinese bloggers, nationalists and media persons.

FYI, I have all the papers which these folks published regarding this research and I have read them in depth.
So basically, the paper did not publish any information about it's explosive power and you base your hypothesis that it couldn't be as powerful as claimed by the Chinese government because of Nitrogen content? Did I get it right?
 
. .
yes of course, actually I'm more interested in this non-nuclear explosive N5 because it can have a lot application
I really worry cause this weapon is too detrimental.

What if this explosive N5 Fall in hands of the terrorists?

So basically, the paper did not publish any information about it's explosive power and you base your hypothesis that it couldn't be as powerful as claimed by the Chinese government because of Nitrogen content? Did I get it right?
Sour grapes as always.
 
.
no wonder humans are stupid
Deep-by-Mario-S%C3%A1nchez-Nevado.jpg
 
.
I really worry cause this weapon is too detrimental.

What if this explosive N5 Fall in hands of the terrorists?


Sour grapes as always.
Well normally Indian posters like to flood the whole forum with pictures and graphs and copy pasted stuff to make their post look reliable, and using this tactic, they make it hard for people to refute or debate since you need to read through all the crap. However if you slowly break down the post into smaller structures, you realize that the main argument is quite simple. The Indian will talk talk and talk and will not go direct to the point. Chinese will normally go direct to the point. This attitude is reflected in how they develop their country, they talk and argue and nothing gets done.
 
.
So basically, the paper did not publish any information about it's explosive power and you base your hypothesis that it couldn't be as powerful as claimed by the Chinese government because of Nitrogen content? Did I get it right?

Not quite.

The original Chinese researchers do not claim it to be 10 - 100x times more powerful than TNT. Chinese government also does not claim that. If you have some government sources, please cite.

Also, based on already existing research we know that maximum a high explosive based on nitrogen can be only upto theoratically about 8 times more powerful than TNT. So this claim of being 10-100 times more powerful is bogus.

BTW, did you care to read the original papers which discusses this research?
 
Last edited:
.
China shall take it as technology reserve and never apply it in weapon industry. We can use it as new generation of Rocket engine fuel.
 
Last edited:
.
Well normally Indian posters like to flood the whole forum with pictures and graphs and copy pasted stuff to make their post look reliable, and using this tactic, they make it hard for people to refute or debate since you need to read through all the crap. However if you slowly break down the post into smaller structures, you realize that the main argument is quite simple. The Indian will talk talk and talk and will not go direct to the point. Chinese will normally go direct to the point. This attitude is reflected in how they develop their country, they talk and argue and nothing gets done.
Lets talk about the point then. Show me the Chinese government source claiming this material to be 10-100 times more powerful than TNT.
Or show me the research paper by Chinese researcher claiming that.

If not we know who is talking nonsense here

China shall take it as technology reserve and never produce it.
Ha ha ha ha. Chinese researcher are smart and they know what is possible and what is not.y.
 
.
Breaking news! China had increased the use rate of nuclear Uranium from 1% to 95% by adapting ADANES.
I will suggest you should rather not mix two threads. Your uranium and Chinese ADS research post does not belong to this topic.
 
.
Well normally Indian posters like to flood the whole forum with pictures and graphs and copy pasted stuff to make their post look reliable, and using this tactic, they make it hard for people to refute or debate since you need to read through all the crap. However if you slowly break down the post into smaller structures, you realize that the main argument is quite simple. The Indian will talk talk and talk and will not go direct to the point. Chinese will normally go direct to the point. This attitude is reflected in how they develop their country, they talk and argue and nothing gets done.

okay, provide ur proofs along with words please.

Not going to happen with this regime

official records say china has 3000 lbs bombs, the biggest . Can u correct me with any information for existing biggest bombs ?
 
.
Lets talk about the point then. Show me the Chinese government source claiming this material to be 10-100 times more powerful than TNT.
Or show me the research paper by Chinese researcher claiming that.

If not we know who is talking nonsense here :)


Ha ha ha ha. Chinese researcher are smart and they know what is possible and what is not. Only Chinese nationalists and bloggers are uneducated folks with zero critical thinking ability.

This is from the university where Prof. Hu works, the source of the original article. The university is a public university hence it is government owned.

http://gjs.njust.edu.cn/19/34/c2317a137524/page.htm

And no I have no research paper to prove this, my question to you is how can you conclude this is false since no explosive data was published?
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom