China granted $48.5bn in bailing out to Pakistan

[epebble]

Chinese have a way of debt traps with countries.

Have you seen the APR on your credit card? Typically, it says 18 % and above. Sometimes they say 8% introductory for 2 years as a sweetener. You still (probably) use it. How can you call 5% APR as 'debt trap' when Pakistan signed on with eyes wide open? What would be the market rate APR for a non-investment grade paper? This is no debt trap. The Problem is Pakistan has a productivity problem that cannot convert an investment financed with a debt of 5% to cash flow neutral, let alone positive. A normal business will consider finance at 5% APR as a pot of gold.

 

[etylo]

The problem is people brainwashed here. Just because its China doesnt mean we have to be onboard with anything and everything.

Chinese have a way of debt traps with countries. Plus it didnt provide any skills to our labour or employment. Most were chinese who didnt want to be here.

The way they are developing gwadar is already nonsensical. The port is cut off from the city and population. It feels and looks like colonization for the local population who are already suffering.



Development? For sure. Debt traps? No.

Are you sure you are not genuine Indian in disguise as Pakistani to call CPEC nothing but a debt trap ? Only small number of managers, engineers and technicians of CPEC projects are Chinese as needed.

 

[K_Bin_W]

Even hypothetically if Gawadar was industrialized and overcrowded with commerce and amphibious pollution, I have no doubt it would remain a paradise in comparison to the real shithole that is Bangladesh and I genuinely state so. It's for that reason I never joined the Bangladesh hype.

I'm sure this is something you and I can agree on. I mean can you imagine Gwadar being anything near this. Even Karachi does not compare:

hehe this is the Indian version of Beverly Hills....

 

[MastanKhan]

There is a silver lining in all this. There is a saying that if you owe a billion dollars to a bank, you own the bank. Using that formula, with $48.5 billion, China has great interest in Pakistan's economic stability. So, China will push, cajole and encourage Pakistan to maintain at least a modicum of economic viability.

Hi,

Thank you---. Here we agree---the more the debt to china---the better it is---.

 

[ThunderCat]

hehe this is the Indian version of Beverly Hills....

So what's the Bangladeshi version of it?

 

[KaiserX]

Gwadar is a shithole for a reason. billions of dollars won't change anything

Gwadar property prices will make you think its the next Dubai

 

[ThunderCat]

The problem is people brainwashed here. Just because its China doesnt mean we have to be onboard with anything and everything.

I agree with this part. People are too over-simplistic and cannot comprehend reality for what it is.

 

[game]

Shouldnt have gone with CPEC. That anounted to the biggest import bill. On top of that it didnt provide anything substantial to the economy.

China needed CPEC more than Pakistan..Pakistan should have told China, "you are welcome tobuild the infra use them and pay tolls/fee to us " till x years and after that they will be ours (like all BOOT projects works) ..China would have happily done ..instead China gave loans to Pakistan,built infra/roads for its use (most part) and purpose..with its own material ,men and machinery ..they got duties and tax exemption and even brought prisoners from China to work as free labour

Most of the CPEC 'investments ' has never hit the SBP.reserves ,.rather the machinery,raw material,-the construction cost ..which again done by Chinese companies, are invoiced /billed to Govt of Pakistan as Debt

If the project has to be successful the Chinese have to relocate manufacturing to Pakistan and use as export hub,China wins

If the project fails to take off -Still China wins , as everything is billed on Pakistan as Loan

Pakistan should have negotiated well and made COEC to its favor .Instead of orange lines,should have asked Chinese to set up industrial zones with export oriented companies and CPEC as BOLT/BOOT method

 

[SD 10]

Shouldnt have gone with CPEC. That anounted to the biggest import bill. On top of that it didnt provide anything substantial to the economy.

It does..... theoretically if pakistan can be a gateway for different corridors between central and south asia, between china and central asia, middle east, Africa, between Iran and China and India, the country has a possibility to earn a alot and at the same time be a hub but for that you need brain and years of planing. This is something we Pakistanis simply dont do. Out policies are short term, just enough to gain public support for a little while. Our Law and order situation is worse. Derspite spending tons of money on defence, we are no where near to defend the country in an effective manner. So yeah Cpec looks like a bad investment, but its not. THE BAD INVESTMENT IS QUITE FRANKLY AND SADLY PAKISTAN!!!!!

 

[James David]

next thing we know Pakistanis won't be eating that flat bread thingies. They'll be eating noodles coz they'll be a part of China coz they can't pay back their loans.

 

[313ghazi]

building roads, dams and power plants is not development

Development is what you do once those things are built.

I remember 16 to 29 hour load shedding on trips to Pakistan.

I remember it taking 2 hours to get from my ancestral village to the nearest city.

With roads, dams and electricity, commutes reduce, travel and transport costs reduce, there is energy for productivity. This was something we didn't have and needed.

The onus is on you to take advantage of that. The Chinese were never going to run our country for us.

Our govts never made policies to encourage industry and exports and our businessmen happily rent seek rather than innovate and who can blame them. The economic policy changes two three times per govt.

Have you seen the APR on your credit card? Typically, it says 18 % and above. Sometimes they say 8% introductory for 2 years as a sweetener. You still (probably) use it. How can you call 5% APR as 'debt trap' when Pakistan signed on with eyes wide open? What would be the market rate APR for a non-investment grade paper? This is no debt trap. The Problem is Pakistan has a productivity problem that cannot convert an investment financed with a debt of 5% to cash flow neutral, let alone positive. A normal business will consider finance at 5% APR as a pot of gold.

Pakistani tradition of being a victim.

We borrowed money to have infrastructure built and now complain we have to repay loans.

 

[etylo]

China needed CPEC more than Pakistan..Pakistan should have told China, "you are welcome tobuild the infra use them and pay tolls/fee to us " till x years and after that they will be ours (like all BOOT projects works) ..China would have happily done ..instead China gave loans to Pakistan,built infra/roads for its use (most part) and purpose..with its own material ,men and machinery ..they got duties and tax exemption and even brought prisoners from China to work as free labour

Most of the CPEC 'investments ' has never hit the SBP.reserves ,.rather the machinery,raw material,-the construction cost ..which again done by Chinese companies, are invoiced /billed to Govt of Pakistan as Debt

If the project has to be successful the Chinese have to relocate manufacturing to Pakistan and use as export hub,China wins

If the project fails to take off -Still China wins , as everything is billed on Pakistan as Loan

Pakistan should have negotiated well and made COEC to its favor .Instead of orange lines,should have asked Chinese to set up industrial zones with export oriented companies and CPEC as BOLT/BOOT method

Yeah, why dont ask the Chinese to develop CPEC projects all together in the first place, even better in that way becos Chinese are all that greedy on Pakistan and they are total idiots in your view.

next thing we know Pakistanis won't be eating that flat bread thingies. They'll be eating noodles coz they'll be a part of China coz they can't pay back their loans.

More likely eating American hot dogs and hamburgers.

 

[nahtanbob]

Development is what you do once those things are built.

You make it sound like those things do not exist in Pakistan prior to CPEC

Gwadar property prices will make you think its the next Dubai

you must really speculate in real estate

They are prerequisite for economic development and growth. Sure Pakistan can live without roads, dams and power plants and other modernities.

Yeah Pakistan had none of those prior to CPEC

 

[Menace2Society]

Only way to justify this is if exports increased. They haven't however there is still time. A developed infrastructure is still better than under developed.

I just wish they could just fix waste management and clean the country, loans for this would be worth it. The easiest way to differentiate from India is by becoming clean.

 

[nahtanbob]

China needed CPEC more than Pakistan..Pakistan should have told China, "you are welcome tobuild the infra use them and pay tolls/fee to us " till x years and after that they will be ours (like all BOOT projects works) ..China would have happily done ..instead China gave loans to Pakistan,built infra/roads for its use (most part) and purpose..with its own material ,men and machinery ..they got duties and tax exemption and even brought prisoners from China to work as free labour

Most of the CPEC 'investments ' has never hit the SBP.reserves ,.rather the machinery,raw material,-the construction cost ..which again done by Chinese companies, are invoiced /billed to Govt of Pakistan as Debt

If the project has to be successful the Chinese have to relocate manufacturing to Pakistan and use as export hub,China wins

If the project fails to take off -Still China wins , as everything is billed on Pakistan as Loan

Pakistan should have negotiated well and made COEC to its favor .Instead of orange lines,should have asked Chinese to set up industrial zones with export oriented companies and CPEC as BOLT/BOOT method

I do not know what stops China from training Pakistanis to build the roads and dams