China FM: China to complete construction plans for Dong Lang (Doklam) subject to local conditions

[Chinese-Dragon]

Now you will say, because India retreated in Donglang and gave Bhutan's territory to China, we should give India an NSG seat and a UNSC seat.

 

[Areesh]

Now you will say, because India retreated in Donglang and gave Bhutan's territory to China, we should give India an NSG seat and a UNSC seat.

Nope. India doesn't deserve this big reward for this service.

Those poor guys had no choice anyways so China doesn't need to give anything to India in return.

 

[rustom]

Chinese try building a road, we will repeat what we did and this time it will be permanent presence .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Chinese try building a road, we will repeat what we did and this time it will be permanent presence .

That's what you said last time, it ended up with China having a permanent presence in Donglang, including garrisons, while India has completely withdrawn all their troops.

 

[Jlaw]

That's how Indians make themselves believe they are the tough guy. Some even counted my post as a warning. These defective Indian products are beyond repair!

Lol, so it was you who gave India an "official" warning!

 

[Dungeness]

Lol, so it was you who gave India an "official" warning!

These "Indilusional" people measure their size by the number of "Chinese Warnings".

 

[Vapnope]

They didn't come to Pakistan's rescue in 1965, 1971, 1987, 1999...did they? When will you guys realize that 'chinese power' is like 'chinese products', cheap, fake and hollow.

Is that an answer to what i asked? Clearly not !

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Nope. India doesn't deserve this big reward for this service.

Those poor guys had no choice anyways so China doesn't need to give anything to India in return.

I was being sarcastic bro.

There is no way China will ever give India the NSG seat or the UNSC seat. Because that would allow them to veto our own resolutions, which would be unacceptable.

Maybe China did bribe Modi with some cash to unilaterally retreat from Donglang though, considering India's collapsing growth rate. India doesn't have enough money in their budget to buy Rafale, Pak-fa or anything else.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

These "Indilusional" people measure their size by the number of "Chinese Warnings".

For Indians, whenever they retreat, and whenever China gains territory (Aksai Chin in 1962 and Donglang today) they have somehow achieved victory.

Same as Vietnam, they lost a large amount of territory (the entire Paracel islands) and they claim victory from that.

Everytime China "loses", we somehow mysteriously gain large amounts of new territory.

 

[Han Patriot]

For Indians, whenever they retreat, and whenever China gains territory (Aksai Chin in 1962 and Donglang today) they have somehow achieved victory.

Same as Vietnam, they lost a large amount of territory (the entire Paracel islands) and they claim victory from that.

Everytime China "loses", we somehow mysteriously gain large amounts of new territory.

To me this is a win win situation. We gave road postponement, in return we get to station troops in Doka La border. As per the statments, both side will deescalate, this will means troops will be reduced on both side, Indians will withdraw back to their border, and reduce to X amount of troops and China will stay in Doklam and reduce to the same amount of troops. Essentially we have defacto annexation of Doklam.

 

[nang2]

To me this is a win win situation. We gave road postponement, in return we get to station troops in Doka La border. As per the statments, both side will deescalate, this will means troops will be reduced on both side, Indians will withdraw back to their border, and reduce to X amount of troops and China will stay in Doklam and reduce to the same amount of troops. Essentially we have defacto annexation of Doklam.

I think China wins some and loses some. While the border peace is maintained, China lost the moral high ground of self defense. India successfully turned a undisputed (claimed by China) border into a disputed one. The next time when Indians invade, China won't have the moral justification to defend militarily since now both sides are on the equal ground. Only the might will decide the outcome.

 

[Han Patriot]

I think China wins some and loses some. While the border peace is maintained, China lost the moral high ground of self defense. India successfully turned a undisputed (claimed by China) border into a disputed one. The next time when Indians invade, China won't have the moral justification to defend militarily since now both sides are on the equal ground. Only the might will decide the outcome.

This is where it gets tricky, the reason China did not have permanent presence in Doklam was because it was disputed. And India had a base in Doka La with roads, the status quo did indeed change, we still have a grade 40 road till Doka La and now permanent deployment facing India. India tried to change it to a trilateral dispute, China made it a bilateral dispute, it is now China in Doklam vs India in Doka La, Bhutanese soldiers will most likely not patrol in that area after this incident. Before, it was India facing Chinese in Yadong, now they are facing Chinese in Doka La.


If India tries again, it will be war. I think it was not just the Chinese who were shocked at what India did, the Indians were also shocked at Chinese reaction. Their calculation was China will treat it as another Indo-CHinese kabaddi dispute, instead China threatened war. My bet is India will not cross the border now even when we resume construction, but we must do it without Indian media attention, Modi must save face, India wanted media victory, we wanted strategic victory.

 

[nang2]

This is where it gets tricky, the reason China did not have permanent presence in Doklam was because it was disputed. And India had a base in Doka La with roads, the status quo did indeed change, we still have a grade 40 road till Doka La and now permanent deployment facing India. India tried to change it to a trilateral dispute, China made it a bilateral dispute, it is now China in Doklam vs India in Doka La, Bhutanese soldiers will most likely not patrol in that area after this incident. Before, it was India facing Chinese in Yadong, now they are facing Chinese in Doka La.


If India tries again, it will be war. I think it was not just the Chinese who were shocked at what India did, the Indians were also shocked at Chinese reaction. Their calculation was China will treat it as another Indo-CHinese kabaddi dispute, instead China threatened war. My bet is India will not cross the border now even when we resume construction, but we must do it without Indian media attention, Modi must save face, India wanted media victory, we wanted strategic victory.

I don't mean the Doklam area. I meant the border between China and India. It seems that originally Indians asked Bhutan the permission to cross China-Bhutan border in order to intervene. That would be the right move for India. But Bhutan refused so Indians had to go cross China-India border. If China really thought this border was undisputed, it certainly didn't treat it as such. China treated this border just like other border sections with India. That creates a big inconsistency in China's response. If China did not begin with the claim of the undisputed-ness of this border, it would be more consistent but lacked the moral high ground.

I think this time, China realized its weakness in that area, decided to bite the bullet and dug in. It doesn't bolster the confidence of its OBOR project at all but may be a necessary price it has to pay as the project may be too grand at the moment.

 

[Han Patriot]

I don't mean the Doklam area. I meant the border between China and India. It seems that originally Indians asked Bhutan the permission to cross China-Bhutan border in order to intervene. That would be the right move for India. But Bhutan refused so Indians had to go cross China-India border. If China really thought this border was undisputed, it certainly didn't treat it as such. China treated this border just like other border sections with India. That creates a big inconsistency in China's response. If China did not begin with the claim of the undisputed-ness of this border, it would be more consistent but lacked the moral high ground.

Bro, check the MOFA communique, India crossed over into Doklam from Doka La, not from a demarcated border north of Doklam. Indian troops are not that stupid to cross a demarcated border with China, they crossed a demarcarted border of Doklam (Ownership depends on whoever controls it since it is disputed). The MOFA map is below, you can see it.

I think this time, China realized its weakness in that area, decided to bite the bullet and dug in. It doesn't bolster the confidence of its OBOR project at all but may be a necessary price it has to pay as the project may be too grand at the moment.

The only weakness China realize was they did not anticipate Indian reaction and the weakness Indian realize was they also did not anticipate such strong Chinese reaction. That's what we call escalation in strategic terms, hence the need for 'de-escalation/disengagement'. China will only give a concession when they receive a concession, this is what we call win win situation. By convention, we shouldn't even give a postponement to India, but in return we get de facto control of Doklam. To me this is a good deal. If India had been serious about fighting a war, they would have invaded Azad Kashmir to stop our road to Pakistan.

From my other replies, I realise something new.

I am so stupid, Doklam and Doklam plateau are two different things, China wanted to own Doklam not just the plateau, the road till Doka La essentially already covers the whole Doklam plateau. When we station troops there, we have de-facto control of Doklam plateau. Strategically, it was the plateau that mattered, the last big piece of flat land there facing Siliguri. Use google 3D, the plateau area is only at the top left quarter of Doklam, the rest are essentially river valleys with no strategic use.

Map from Indian analyst

Map from Chinese MOFA

 

[nang2]

Bro, check the MOFA communique, India crossed over into Doklam from Doka La, not from a demarcated border north of Doklam. Indian troops are not that stupid to cross a demarcated border with China, they crossed a demarcarted border of Doklam (Ownership depends on whoever controls it since it is disputed). The MOFA map is below, you can see it.

If that is the case, why would China bring up 1890 treaty at all?