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China Economic “Miracle” Has Failed… What’s Next For the Stock Market?

no matter how hard we try,we can never match India in terms of failure,it's so low at the bottom and beyond the reach of most countries in this world.
And as is your habit , you've started trolling again? Can't you guys ever get rid of bad habits? I thought this thread was about the Chinese crash. So where and how does India figure here? Is it your inferiority complex at work?

Wake up man and see the light of day. There's much more going on in the world than 'India'....
 
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you can cry denial but the whole world,even Indians themselves know how far behind India is comparing with China.ok,deny it,it can only make this thread more fun,lol...

I am not denying, but the achievements are exaggerated, and some false pride with war mongering mentality is inflicted into chinese society these days.
 
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Our economy is based on domestic consumption and slowly we are also setting up manufacturing sectors and developing tier 2 cities as a part of it. No need to worry about present scenario since most of the investments from foreign will favor us soon because of low wages and availability of human resources..

Why are u so optimistic about India's future economy growth, while are very pessimistic about china's future economic growth?

China is progressively establish economic growth based on domestic consumption, and the progress is quite good.



There are no miracles in hitech sectors as is evident from USA's experience with China in the last decade.

I meant: China's economic miracle is by growing high among developed industry nations.
You will see china is competing with USA/Europe, Japan Korea in high tech sector. China is moving to the next step leaving India therefore you cant compare India's economy with china's.
 
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a dirt poor beggar sneering a millionare of making less money,how pathetic...

Chinese Millionaire ..... :lol:

Chinese decade is over and get used to it, the more the fake stats comes out the more you will be embarrassed.

The article writer is from western country .... :lol:
 
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Why are u so optimistic about India's future economy growth, while are very pessimistic about china's future economic growth?

China is progressively establish economic growth based on domestic consumption, and the progress is quite good.

Because the export driven economy is now in credit mess and there is no increase in the exports because of west slow down.


I meant: China's economic miracle is by growing high among developed industry nations.
You will see china is competing with USA/Europe, Japan Korea in high tech sector. China is moving to the next step leaving India therefore you cant compare India's economy with china's.

High tech sectors??

This model do not work unless you find another china to make goods at cheap rates, if you invest in those countries then those countries will grow, just like china now.
 
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a dirt poor beggar sneering a millionare of making less money,how pathetic...

China a millionaire! What have you been smoking...Chinese opium still going strong??:rofl:

And we also know that Chinese economic figures are shamelessly faked...especially post 2008

The only difference is that we are poor but free, while you are poor and bonded. Can you even crap without asking CCP. See Indians abusing their leaders left and right... You do that, and off to the firing squad, or is it the gas vans??

On a serious note, here is why I think China will be harder hit:

1. It is far more export oriented than India. Indian economy mainly caters to the internal market

2. You have created excessive industrial capacity with FDI. These factories / real estate is going to turn ghost towns

3. Far more urbanized than India, with much greater Industrial employment working in expoert dependent industries. In India, majority is still in primary sector which is insulated from outer world.

4. Has built a pile of worthless US Govt treasury bonds which cannot be encashed. Indian saving is mostly in Gold. India has mote than 50% of world's gold.

5. For all its size, China is far resource poor. Its population is larger and agricultural land lesser than India. India has extremely favorable agro climatic conditions allowing for multiple cropping. Frther, chinese have massively polluted their land.

Lets see where we both are in 10 years time.
 
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Why China's Economy May Be Heading for a Crash
CNBC
China's central bank sent global markets reeling when it attempted tighten credit and rein in the country's shadow banking system. But the consequences of China's credit binge may just be getting started, and experts say there could be more pain to come for the world's second-largest economy.

"We've been seeing tightening since the end of last year," said Leland Miller, China Beige Book International president. "This is not a spur of the moment decision by the central bank."

Leland said the higher interbank lending rates are an indicator of a tension in the system. "The credit transition mechanism is broken and until that's fixed, there will be no happy endings in China," he said.

The People's Bank of China in a statement said the performance of the economy and financial system "are sound" and that there was no shortage of liquidity in the market.

But the economy must still come to grips with the credit binge and the over-investment undertaken in an attempt to avert an economic slowdown at the outset of the global financial crisis.
(Read More: China Is Right to Tame Credit Growth: Moody's)

"They launched $2.5 trillion worth of stimulus in 2008-11," explained Bill Smead, CEO and CIO of Smead Capital Management and a long-term China bear. "Most of that went to special purpose vehicles to build rail, bridges, airports, condo buildings, you name it."
Many of those projects were built with the sole purpose of showing strong economic growth and not to generate economic rent, Smead said.
Gordon Chang, author of "The Coming Collapse of China," said China may only be growing 2 or 3 percent and if you strip out all the construction going into ghost cities and "high-speed rail lines to nowhere," the economy may not be growing at all.

He looks at electricity usage as a better indicator of growth than the official Chinese statistics.

"China claimed 7.7 percent growth for the first quarter," he told CNBC this month. "But when you look at electricity, by far the most reliable economic indicator of Chinese economic activity, that grew 2.9 percent in Q1. When you consider that the growth of GDP is historically 85 percent of the growth of electricity, you're talking 2.5 percent (growth)."

And many of those loans used to finance the construction of those ghost cities and idle train lines may never get repaid. Instead, banks continue to roll over these loans—many made to state-owned companies.
(Read More: Will the Reprieve for China's Lenders Last?)
If the banks were to stop rolling over those bad debts, it could create a capital hole in the banking system and force the government into a costly recapitalization of the banks.

Two things could mitigate the damage, say investing pros—high reserve ratio requirements and China's massive foreign exchange reserves.

David Riedel of Riedel Research Group, told CNBC that while investors need to "worry about the health of the banking sector," the Chinese government's 20 percent reserve requirement for the banks and $3 trillion of foreign exchange reserves are "two strong pillars of support."

But using the foreign exchange reserves to recapitalize the banks could have nasty unintended consequences. Smead said they'd have to convert their U.S. Treasury holdings to yuan and "explosively increase the money supply."

That could torpedo the currency and stoke inflation, Smead said, creating a major crisis.

China Bears

For some international investors, China uncertainty has been reason to avoid the country's equities altogether. Rajiv Jain, manager of the Virtus Foreign Opportunities Fund, told attendees at the Morningstar investment conference earlier in the month that he was "very concerned about the risk coming from China's shadow banking system."

In his first-quarter investment commentary, Jain wrote, "In our view this level of (China) credit growth is unsustainable. There is bound to be a significant contraction in credit and, with it, GDP." He added that the risks are systemic.

That has him thinking defensively about China and investing in companies that do most of their business domestically, Indian banks for instance, and downplaying commodities-related companies that rely on demand from China.

"If a debt-induced economic downturn takes hold in China, it inevitably will have a negative effect on commodity prices as marginal demand slackens or even falls," Jain wrote. "Lower commodity prices would lead to lower income and reduced investment in exporting countries."

Those countries include Indonesia, Malaysia, Brazil, Canada and Australia.
(Read More: Commodities Traders Call End of 'Supercycle')

China Opportunities?

Not everyone shares this pessimism. "We're still of the view that China muddles through," said Todd Henry, emerging markets equity portfolio specialist at T.Rowe Price. "They'll post decent growth, but the trajectory of growth will be lower" as credit growth slows.
That's not a ringing endorsement. Henry acknowledged the misallocation of capital and potential problems lurking in the financial system. But he doesn't see systemic risk.

Richard Gao, a portfolio manager at Matthews Asia, wrote in a note, "We believe that a widespread banking crisis seems unlikely for China, but we have nonetheless taken a cautious approach and typically are underweight in Chinese financials, especially banks, in our portfolios."

Michael Kurtz, global head of equity strategy at Nomura, also told CNBC attempts to rein in credit are "very useful in terms of getting the Chinese economy back on a more sustainable footing as we look out over the medium to long term."
It may even be positive for the country's financial institutions down the line.

"We do think that medium to long term as China begins to actually crack down on the abuses of easy money and begins to apply harder budget constraints at the margin, it could underpin a longer-term re-rating of the sector," Kurtz said. "We're finally starting to see the banks acknowledge the true status of the underlying balance sheets."
T. Rowe is underweight China financials. The stocks are not yet cheap enough to make them comfortable with the risks that may be lurking on their balance sheets, Henry said. T. Rowe prefers the consumer, Internet and environmental themes in China.

BIll Stone of PNC Asset Management also told CNBC that things didn't seem to be falling apart in China and that the recent volatility may be creating future opportunities. "There will be an opportunity in mobile," he said, "Mobile e-commerce in China will certainly be worth watching here going forward."

Is It 2007 or 1979 in China?

Garry Evans, global Head of equity strategy at HSBC, draws the comparison between China in 2013 and the U.S. in 1979 when Fed Chairman Paul Volcker became Fed chairman and took to breaking inflation.
The Chinese government is focused on reform, Evans said. "Markets will want to wait and see whether these reforms happen in China."

T. Rowe's Henry said that Chinese officials' attempts to shift the economy from one driven by government investment to domestic consumption will be a "delicate balance."
"The risk is they don't get this right and it becomes mismanaged," Henry said. "Our view, they've done a good job in terms of managing the economy.

Smead takes a dimmer view, saying China in 2013 is more like the U.S. in 2007-08 when the global financial crisis hit. While he runs a long-only U.S. fund, China is his chief worry and that has him avoiding U.S. energy, resource and industrial companies that depend on China growth.
"It's probably late 2007-08 in China," Smead said. "It's a physical impossibility for economy to be growing as it is" unless credit continues to expand sharply.

He predicts a deep recession or depression that could last four years as it deals with the fallout from the credit binge.

Either way, HSBC's Evans said, "You have to expect Chinese equities to be quite volatile and quite weak."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100849458
 
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c'mon guys.. China is going nowhere.. Minor bump... US and Chinese economy is tied at the hip.. One goes down, it will take the other with it.. And guess what happens to rest of the world at that time...
 
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China Suspends Releasing Key PMI details Making It More Difficult To Analyze Its Faltering Economy

China, on Thursday, said that it has suspended publishing industry-specific data from its manufacturing sector purchasing managers’ index, or PMI, stating a lack of time to analyze the large volume of data, amid continuing concerns over the quality and depth of economic data to emerge out of the country.
“We now have 3,000 samples in the survey, and from a technical point of view, time is very limited -- there are many industries, you know,” Cai Jin, vice president of the China Federation of Logistics & Purchasing, which compiles the data along with the National Bureau of Statistics, told reporters in Beijing, Bloomberg News reported.

The report came as economists found that the official manufacturing PMI released on July 1 missed key information on several industries. The PMI release also was silent on the volume of export orders, imports and inventory-related data, and offered no explanation for the exclusions.

Five of 12 sub-indexes, usually released with the manufacturing PMI, were missing in the latest release that contained data about the economy's performance in the month of June.

“Suspension of the monthly data, without prior notice, makes the research work difficult for us,” Xu Xiangchun, a steel researcher and chief analyst at Mysteel.com, said by phone from Beijing, according to Bloomberg News. “The random absence of official data is disorienting.”

China’s monthly PMI report, available through paid subscriptions, used to provide industry-specific data crucial to assess the vast Chinese economy. But, the latest suspension will make it difficult for economists and investors to gauge the strength of the economy, which is showing signs of a stubborn slowdown.

“We hope it’s just a hiccup, and we certainly want the data released to be consistent and comprehensive,” Zhu Haibin, chief China economist at JPMorgan Chase & Co. in Hong Kong, had told Bloomberg News before the latest official announcement suspending the data release.

According to Cai, cited in the Bloomberg report, the suspension is temporary.

In the recent past, several economists have questioned the accuracy of official data released by the Chinese government, who suspect that economic indicators were being manipulated to hide a slowdown in the country's economy.

Earlier, anomalies in China's trade figures were exposed after economists found that China's exports to Hong Kong and Hong Kong’s data on imports from China did not tally. Authorities later admitted that Chinese firms had faked invoices to inflate trade figures to benefit from foreign exchange volatility, resulting in a widespread government crackdown on the practice.China Suspends Releasing Key PMI details Making It More Difficult To Analyze Its Faltering Economy
 
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Opportunity! We can all beat the crap out of each other... :P

c'mon guys.. China is going nowhere.. Minor bump... US and Chinese economy is tied at the hip.. One goes down, it will take the other with it.. And guess what happens to rest of the world at that time...
 
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Dude, imagine 20,000+ nuclear warheads in the air... + India and Pakistan's ODD TALLY OF +-300....... imagine it in your head..... where do you think can we hide? Any place comes to mind?

On a serious note - shudder to think what will really happen with all those fingers on their nuke triggers.
 
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It's good that India economy is totally delinked from China ... unlike natural resources exporting countries like Australia, Brazil, Russia and Indonesia.

Now, India's exports to China is no more than just 3-4% of India's total exports, and China doesn't figure even in top 15 countries to which we export:

Indian exports to China down 30 % in first half - The Hindu

As for what India buys from China... well, if China collapses, it will want to sell those things to us even cheaper, since nobody else is buying ...... (and competing against a rupee rate of 60 :laugh:), or keep its junk to rust in China.
 
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Dude, imagine 20,000+ nuclear warheads in the air... + India and Pakistan's ODD TALLY OF +-300....... imagine it in your head..... where do you think can we hide? Any place comes to mind?

It's a serious fact - any reversal or serious downgrade of economy or near bankruptcy in any of the top powers fortunes will prompt trigger happy generals to start a war and the way countries are interlinked today, probably a regional war will go multinational quite soon.
 
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