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China downplays Japan's construction of India's first bullet train project

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Good for us.
港媒:中国出口高铁最终可能不会获得任何经济回报_凤凰财经
But not so good for my dad.
However why India want to have them?
Is India's government sure that they won't lose money?
The vast majority of the world's high-speed rail are operating at a loss.Not only in Taiwan but also in France..
And Chinese usually take D-train 250km/h not so high speed like G-train 300~310km/h(it is said that the next year G-train will regain 350km/h http://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_1385258 )I am sure many of them are at a loss too.
 
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business is business an politics comes second but your precieveing china's business and political relationship with the US the same as india and japan economic and political relationship. thats a bad way of thinking. i may as well say turkey and russia needs to set aside its problems and continue doing business, as the value of trade is billions. but they wont due to political reasons.

No, actually, you can compare Ukraine and Russia if you wanted. The problem is that war being war, politics and politics aside, no country would look at the political different and forsake the trade, simply because no country can do it alone, even at the height of cold war, Soviet Union and US trade would maintain.

Even today with your Turkey-Russia example. Trade were largely intact even with the sanction in place for Turkey shot down the Russian Jet. As the sanction from Russia only singled out Charter flight and agricultural products.

Russia approves detailed sanctions against Turkey over downed plane| Reuters


i go on google news and the japan and china tender hsr contract for indoneasia came up quiet frequenty, i read a very informative article from i think it was the financail time which took me up to speed then i read some chinese and japanese articles to get a broad view two sided view of the tender. i can find it where china's offer is 20+ billion, can you provide the source?


i see you have been reading from the economic times as your saying exactly what they are saying.
Japan offers to fund 81% of India's first bullet train worth $15 billion - The Economic Times

again can you provide a reliable source to where china's loan agreement was to finance 50% of the project?



1) well again it depends on the source for the $5.4 billion price differance.

2) wouldnt the interest rate be frozen? and woulnt the repayment date be flexible

3) will be explained in the next paragraph

All the source is in India, they (including the one that you mentioned is not trustworthy) were from the same PTI source. Like this

China loses race to win India's first bullet train project - Rediff.com Business


So if that is not reliable source, then I guess no point continue on with the discussion


i shall ignore the 5.4 billion in differance. unitl i find a source thats reliable that reflects what you say.
are you trying to say japan could have given a better loan incentive than china? the chinese are almost begging people to take their money. only down side you have to give it back but the rates are uncompared. BUT, they may be substance in this. now lets say i beleve you and say china would loan 50% of the project whilst japan would give in 81%(japan giving 81% is correct). now this could be a big factor. because in the end its almost an investment. the japanese may be more willing to make more of a risk whilst the chinese are a bit wary as the economy is flat lining at the moment despite what the indian media says. now this means either japan is more willing to invest in india and take the risk or are being very agressive and stupid.(my guess is the first.)

to quality i know goods that are made in china come with the low quality perception too. and in some cases thats true. in regards to the trains in sydney, well i have not been to austraila so i have not seen them. but when you mentioned the aircondioning noe working. dont you think that trains working long hours are supposed to come with problems. besides when a product worth milions/billions, they will be inspected inside out by the client and the problems would be rectified. dont you think the ac unit would be just fine upo inspection prior to delevery?. also ac units are not even that high tech and can be procured from any country. and a problem in them not working would most probably reflect on the maintainance of the train not the manufacturer. also about 4 years ago i was looking for a water pump for my fish tank it needed to be 12000lhr and cheap. now i was either given the option to go for a well known fluval pump or a chinese jebao pump. i choose the later and after 4 years it has not failed, not once. most of my gadets are chinese they have not broken.

Set aside the contract for a moment, set aside the 5.4 billions different you do not believe is reliable. Let's say the price tag is on par with Japan for now.

The point is not solely rely on financial incentive, but also whether or not India would be able to afford the contract. If the Japanese Contract is affordable and is not beaten by the Chinese by far, the Indian is logical to choose the Japanese proposal.

One thing we know about Chinese Train, they are cheap but in the end you got what you pay for, which may be a good deal up front but in a long term, you would have pay more.

Trains, like any public transport, if they are left in yard for repair, you lose money on it, so in the end, what we got from Waratah (The Chinese train set for Sydney Train) is that, it may not seems a big problem if the welding is not done properly, or the screw from the seat is wrong, or even the IC is messed up and the message board display some random message. But in a long run, this is what cause you money as you need more time in the yard to fix every little thing. Set aside of the big problem (Which usually ended up shipping the train back to China)

In the end, country like India would want to be able to build their own train, so in the end, they also have to answer one more question, would they want to learn from the Chinese? Or Would they want to learn from the Japanese?

A bit more money now, would mean a consortium chance for Japanese Technology, which mean they can learn form the best, which in turn they will have the tech know how to build better quality train set for themselves in the future.

Don't get me wrong, if India simply buying some train set for use then using Chinese Train is not a problem, yes, it will need to fix it more often, but it will be cheaper too, but this is not a kind of mentality if I want to learn something

And about the Waratah Trainset in Sydney, they are really very bad. The AC is not malfunction because it was turn on all the time, but simply because the new Chinese train draw immense power from the power line which from 2012-2014, before the NSW government finish building more substation just to fix this problem, there cannot be more than one of these Chinese Train on the same line otherwise it would overload the substation.

The Air-con, which is the centre of the problem is drawing way too much power with the electric engine. Something previous train set have no problem with.

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Project problems no Downer for more train contracts

Waratah trains derail Downer


also the jf-17 thats chinese, the pakistanis are not complaining, yes they have admited its not as good as western kit but it works and is improving to western standards.

in regards to the stock exchange the chinese stock market has been fluctuating hugely andi woud not out money in it now. im not to familiar with the tokyo stock exchange. but i do look at austrailia for mining companies. the shares are down and its prime time to buy and glencore went up 3.9% about a few das ago but thats at lse.

This is the same principal. If India is solely buying the train set for use, not for their own development, there are still way to justified the Chinese proposal by the account of money. But I would not be surprise if India want to develope their own train set later and still would want to go for Chinese Tech. I mean. If you were offered F-15 and JF-17, for the same price or slightly cheaper in facor the JF-17 and you want to learn how to build your own aircraft and if both company agree to trasnfer the technology along with the deal, which one would you go for?

About the stock market, you misunderstood what I said, stock and rolling stock mean trains. It does not mean the stock market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_stock

its not that im complaning that the tender was unfair. the point im making is that as long as if japan made a good deal, they would get the job. i think you would agree that india is tring to offset china. you do have a point in that countrys that dont have a lot of money would choose the cheapest option.

p.s.
below is not a reliable source
Japan pips China in race to build India's first bullet train : World, News - India Today

regards bm

Again, it should be the "best" man wins, and if the Indian think they had chosen the best man, then who are we to judge?
 
we want better deal and more financing. Japan gave a better deal and thus they won it. Chinese should stop crying. If they want to bag the other deals of other routes in India.. be more competitive in your financing and beat Japan or just go back home....lol.
 
I don't know why this is such an issue for some members. Japan won this particular contract. I'm sure China will win other contracts in the future.

Get over it people.
 
First of all, don't engage in a post if you know you are going to end up in an insult. There are always alternative if you don't want to reply, you simply don't reply for it.

And then, whatever you say. I don't really care how you interpret the deal or what deal you are interpreting, as I said so already, I would much rather trust SCMP than you or any Indian member in this sense.
I could care less about what you say about me. DO NOT ATTEMPT to mislead people about my country. Do you understand?
 
Well, seems to me YOU ARE THE ONE MISLEADING YOUR OWN PEOPLE...
I will say it again, LET THE INDIAN talk about what deal we offer and what deal we are not. You are absolutely clueless in this Indian HSR so I advice you to stop talking about our deal with Indian HSR.
 
I will say it again, LET THE INDIAN talk about what deal we offer and what deal we are not. You are absolutely clueless in this Indian HSR so I advice you to stop talking about our deal with Indian HSR.

Well, you have provided NOTHING to the argument beside calling on people's name, all I said was provided by "Indian" own news agency, and it is THEM who said Chinese Proposal is more expensive than the Japanese.

Now, if you have some concrete evidence saying otherwise, I am more than happy to withdraw what I said and offer my apologise for misleading, but the FACT is, you didn't.

According to PTI (The largest press network in India), Chinese lodge a bid but was beaten fair and square by the Japanese, if you have problem dealing with it, then let me quote what @Nihonjin1051 said

If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.
 
sorry about the late reply............
No, actually, you can compare Ukraine and Russia if you wanted. The problem is that war being war, politics and politics aside, no country would look at the political different and forsake the trade, simply because no country can do it alone, even at the height of cold war, Soviet Union and US trade would maintain.

Even today with your Turkey-Russia example. Trade were largely intact even with the sanction in place for Turkey shot down the Russian Jet. As the sanction from Russia only singled out Charter flight and agricultural products.

Russia approves detailed sanctions against Turkey over downed plane| Reuters
i disagree. urkraine wasa problem that was preventable by the former presidant reaming in power. he was ousted.
turkey and russia is more of a suitable topic. a simple apoligy and sorry, and we wont do it again. and that would be enough to avoid sanctions. now lets not go of topic here, even though i started it.



All the source is in India, they (including the one that you mentioned is not trustworthy) were from the same PTI source. Like this

China loses race to win India's first bullet train project - Rediff.com Business


So if that is not reliable source, then I guess no point continue on with the discussion
i dont buy it but i shall take your word for if, for the sake of arguement.


Set aside the contract for a moment, set aside the 5.4 billions different you do not believe is reliable. Let's say the price tag is on par with Japan for now.

The point is not solely rely on financial incentive, but also whether or not India would be able to afford the contract. If the Japanese Contract is affordable and is not beaten by the Chinese by far, the Indian is logical to choose the Japanese proposal.
ok seting aside the differance in price. you get the the parts we dont know about. i.e. the interest rate per month?, when the first payments due, after how long? penaltys for missed payments and repercussions. in short we dont know the deep financail details that are avaliable to the public. but i think indian citizens may be able to get theinfo via the freedom of information act. not sure

also this dont make sense.
The point is not solely rely on financial incentive, but also whether or not India would be able to afford the contract.


1. One thing we know about Chinese Train, they are cheap but in the end you got what you pay for, which may be a good deal up front but in a long term, you would have pay more.

2. Trains, like any public transport, if they are left in yard for repair, you lose money on it, so in the end, what we got from Waratah (The Chinese train set for Sydney Train) is that, it may not seems a big problem if the welding is not done properly, or the screw from the seat is wrong, or even the IC is messed up and the message board display some random message. But in a long run, this is what cause you money as you need more time in the yard to fix every little thing. Set aside of the big problem (Which usually ended up shipping the train back to China)

3. In the end, country like India would want to be able to build their own train, so in the end, they also have to answer one more question, would they want to learn from the Chinese? Or Would they want to learn from the Japanese?
1. mmmm... if you go back to the begining here now you said japan was cheaper than china. wouldnt that mean japan is cutting corners or giving them a cheaper varient whilst china is giving the the full thing?

2.now in regards to the waratah train. belows is a double deck version and they ae single deck versins too.
in the link below it did not mention ac units taking too much juice but other reasons. but in the end isnt it the job of the client to inspect the trains before delevery?
No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au
sydneys_new_waratah_train.aspx


3. ok you can have that one. but again china has experiance from alstom, bombardier, siemens and some other japanese firm which i cant remember the name of. they build train for china and they build them in china.
below is a a zefiro 380 hsr built in china with a mixture of chinese and canadian companies.
CRH1A250NG_zpse89496a7.jpg

A bit more money now, would mean a consortium chance for Japanese Technology, which mean they can learn form the best, which in turn they will have the tech know how to build better quality train set for themselves in the future.

Don't get me wrong, if India simply buying some train set for use then using Chinese Train is not a problem, yes, it will need to fix it more often, but it will be cheaper too, but this is not a kind of mentality if I want to learn something

And about the Waratah Trainset in Sydney, they are really very bad. The AC is not malfunction because it was turn on all the time, but simply because the new Chinese train draw immense power from the power line which from 2012-2014, before the NSW government finish building more substation just to fix this problem, there cannot be more than one of these Chinese Train on the same line otherwise it would overload the substation.

The Air-con, which is the centre of the problem is drawing way too much power with the electric engine. Something previous train set have no problem with.
i admit japan is a major player in terms of high tech kit not just hsr's we are getting japanese trains too(below). we choose hitachi due to their already presence here and the investment being large. indeed india can learn a great deal from japanese tech
Hitachi-train.jpg


This is the same principal. If India is solely buying the train set for use, not for their own development, there are still way to justified the Chinese proposal by the account of money. But I would not be surprise if India want to develop their own train set later and still would want to go for Chinese Tech.
thats a strange idea, what else would you do with a train? im sure japans proposal woud come with some off set to where indian would get some tech and local production, which can be used and aid localally develop trains.

I mean. If you were offered F-15 and JF-17, for the same price or slightly cheaper in facor the JF-17 and you want to learn how to build your own aircraft and if both company agree to trasnfer the technology along with the deal, which one would you go for?
no offense here, your a good guy and all, but thats the strangest thing you have said so far. were are you seeing japan as the f15 and china as the jf-17? but roling with it, common sense would say i would pick the first.


About the stock market, you misunderstood what I said, stock and rolling stock mean trains. It does not mean the stock market.

Rolling stock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ahh my bad, when one mentions stocks and japan i think of the stock exchange.

Again, it should be the "best" man wins, and if the Indian think they had chosen the best man, then who are we to judge?
well thats true, and i dont think china is losing sleep over it. so move on i guess. theres plenty of other opportunities for them where countries would go fro the cheapest option, and are not as many countries that have big budgets as india.
 
This long discussion isn't needed. The first project went to Japan, and their are many more. Also their are others like Alstom from France and one from Spain too taking up studies for different routes. This benefits the consumer , ie India. And this matters.


On people saying this had political reasons, well if at all political reasons were involved, China would not have been doing the survey for the biggest routes. They are our biggest trading partners, and I think the tops in both India and China do see the benefits of keeping politics and business away.



And on people saying India should not waste its scarce resources, when we are getting the funding why not utilize it?

And on normal railways of India. Be sure they are being revamped big way. If I believe our rail minister who has surprisingly delivered more than our more expected defence minister, we will be adding 20,000 kms of new railway lines in coming years. That's 1/3rd of our present size, and I am not taking into account the doubling or tripling projects.
We are getting Alstom and GE to setup 2 new locomotive factories which will supply 2,000high power locomotives over 10 years, a part from a project with Japan where they would help us assemble in India 9,000 HP locomotives to cater the DFCs. A part from this the list is very long..... the term ailing Indian railways is not correct , its more like a growing one. And it will continue to help us big in realising our dream .
 
sorry about the late reply............

i disagree. urkraine wasa problem that was preventable by the former presidant reaming in power. he was ousted.
turkey and russia is more of a suitable topic. a simple apoligy and sorry, and we wont do it again. and that would be enough to avoid sanctions. now lets not go of topic here, even though i started it.


i dont buy it but i shall take your word for if, for the sake of arguement.



ok seting aside the differance in price. you get the the parts we dont know about. i.e. the interest rate per month?, when the first payments due, after how long? penaltys for missed payments and repercussions. in short we dont know the deep financail details that are avaliable to the public. but i think indian citizens may be able to get theinfo via the freedom of information act. not sure

[/quote]

Well, again, no point debating this as A. Their country, B. Off topic.

also this dont make sense.
The point is not solely rely on financial incentive, but also whether or not India would be able to afford the contract.

Well, it's what we call buyer psychology.

Say I am running a AU$50,000 budget to buy a car (or 26,000GBP), I wanted a car to be as much goodies as possible but since I am looking at the budget, I also want my car to be affordable. So say I have two choices, a 2014 BMW 328i or 2014 Lexus IS250, now both car are of the same price (+/-$500) and if I am neither BMW Fans or Lexus Fans and both car offer the same things, I would have choose whoever give me a better plan.

However, if budget is not a concern, and I have say $200,000 to buy any car, I would simply go after the one I wanted, and instalment or financial incentive is not really a matter. Or as my economy professor used to say, you won't wait for Ferrari to have a sale to get one.

Of course, I am not saying Japan HSR is Ferrari and Chinese HSR is Lexus, I am just saying as long as India can afford the budget, financial incentive is a good to have, but not a must have.

1. mmmm... if you go back to the begining here now you said japan was cheaper than china. wouldnt that mean japan is cutting corners or giving them a cheaper varient whilst china is giving the the full thing?

Well, building a railway is different than like building a car or plane, track gauge basically takes a lot of different. Money depends on the gauge because the gauge dictate the design of a railway car, which basically dictate the speed, the curve of the tracks and basically everything.. Being cheaper on the deal may be because of the gauge and design different, also it may have to do with how much technology Japan transfer to India. It does not mean Japan is cutting corner.

US uses Indian Gauge (1663mm) japan have done some car design for US Railway before, it would save money on the Indian project too.

2.now in regards to the waratah train. belows is a double deck version and they ae single deck versins too.
in the link below it did not mention ac units taking too much juice but other reasons. but in the end isnt it the job of the client to inspect the trains before delevery?
No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au
sydneys_new_waratah_train.aspx

All Sydney trains are double deck. Single Deck train are CountryLink fast train.

The AC problem is from 2012-2014, it was said to be the engine eat too much power in 2010 when the train start rolling out of China and start delivery to Sydney Rail. Sydney Rail rejected the train a few times (2 or 3) and send back to China for redesign along with all the design fault (like foggy window and so on)

It was later determined the Air Conditioning is the culprit of the problem.

No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au

We cannot test the train until they reach Australia, as the testing circumstance is different in China than in Australia, all Sydney Rail can do is to give them the spec and the Chinese coach builder to built to the spec. Which is not the case.

3. ok you can have that one. but again china has experiance from alstom, bombardier, siemens and some other japanese firm which i cant remember the name of. they build train for china and they build them in china.
below is a a zefiro 380 hsr built in china with a mixture of chinese and canadian companies.
CRH1A250NG_zpse89496a7.jpg


i admit japan is a major player in terms of high tech kit not just hsr's we are getting japanese trains too(below). we choose hitachi due to their already presence here and the investment being large. indeed india can learn a great deal from japanese tech
Hitachi-train.jpg

Well, we can all agree to that

thats a strange idea, what else would you do with a train? im sure japans proposal woud come with some off set to where indian would get some tech and local production, which can be used and aid localally develop trains.

well, I am simply saying if you just want to use those stock, then you weight in on the price is justifiable, but not when you want to build your own set later on.

I don't know about Chinese Train, but I do know one thing about the Japanese Train, it's impossible for them to break down or crash, unless it was the driver intention to crash the train deliberately.

Also, the Japanese Command software is second to none, have you ever saw a Japanese Train running late? Bear in mind the term "late" for the Japanese is 90 second late. I had waited almost my whole life (figuratively speaking) in a train station in US, Australia and China, I never miss 1 second in any JR line.

no offense here, your a good guy and all, but thats the strangest thing you have said so far. were are you seeing japan as the f15 and china as the jf-17? but roling with it, common sense would say i would pick the first.

Well it was 2 am when I wrote the post and I try to put a Japanese Product against a Chinese product. Yes, the comparison is a bit weird, better analogy is KA-50 and JF-17. they are comparable in price and function. So just replace the F-15 on my analogy with KA-50.
 
@jhungary

Hello Sir ; what happened to ASK ME ANYTHING ?

I am still doing the video, as the audio of last month recording is quite honestly "fuked" and the recording artist is not going to come in this month on the account of Christmas so we will need to push it til January.
 
1.Well, it's what we call buyer psychology.

Say I am running a AU$50,000 budget to buy a car (or 26,000GBP), I wanted a car to be as much goodies as possible but since I am looking at the budget, I also want my car to be affordable. So say I have two choices, a 2014 BMW 328i or 2014 Lexus IS250, now both car are of the same price (+/-$500) and if I am neither BMW Fans or Lexus Fans and both car offer the same things, I would have choose whoever give me a better plan.

However, if budget is not a concern, and I have say $200,000 to buy any car, I would simply go after the one I wanted, and instalment or financial incentive is not really a matter. Or as my economy professor used to say, you won't wait for Ferrari to have a sale to get one.

2. Of course, I am not saying Japan HSR is Ferrari and Chinese HSR is Lexus, I am just saying as long as India can afford the budget, financial incentive is a good to have, but not a must have.

1. if your buying a car of either the bmw or the lexus and it has to be either or then you would pick which ever you like

if your getting it on hp (hire purchase) then you pick which is the best deal

2. no dont worry,i understand what your mean (sort of )

Well, building a railway is different than like building a car or plane, track gauge basically takes a lot of different. Money depends on the gauge because the gauge dictate the design of a railway car, which basically dictate the speed, the curve of the tracks and basically everything.. Being cheaper on the deal may be because of the gauge and design different, also it may have to do with how much technology Japan transfer to India. It does not mean Japan is cutting corner.

US uses Indian Gauge (1663mm) japan have done some car design for US Railway before, it would save money on the Indian project too.
a hsr would have differant tracks to the tracks ordinary trains have. also indian tracks are mainly broad gauge which are at 1676mm. im sure extending or shrink the axels would not be a problem for either japan or china. if they can buid trains them im sure they can adjust the axel widel to accomidate the tracks.
Track gauge in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



All Sydney trains are double deck. Single Deck train are CountryLink fast train.

The AC problem is from 2012-2014, it was said to be the engine eat too much power in 2010 when the train start rolling out of China and start delivery to Sydney Rail. Sydney Rail rejected the train a few times (2 or 3) and send back to China for redesign along with all the design fault (like foggy window and so on)

It was later determined the Air Conditioning is the culprit of the problem.

No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au
well i never knew sydney has double decked carrages. well you know more then me on this matter as i not that train savy nor do i check if a train is having problems on the opposite side of the world.

We cannot test the train until they reach Australia, as the testing circumstance is different in China than in Australia, all Sydney Rail can do is to give them the spec and the Chinese coach builder to built to the spec. Which is not the case.



Well, we can all agree to that
yes your right but even when it arrives in austrailia dont you think they checked and trsted the train?

ok enough on australlias train issues

well, I am simply saying if you just want to use those stock, then you weight in on the price is justifiable, but not when you want to build your own set later on.

I don't know about Chinese Train, but I do know one thing about the Japanese Train, it's impossible for them to break down or crash, unless it was the driver intention to crash the train deliberately.

Also, the Japanese Command software is second to none, have you ever saw a Japanese Train running late? Bear in mind the term "late" for the Japanese is 90 second late. I had waited almost my whole life (figuratively speaking) in a train station in US, Australia and China, I never miss 1 second in any JR line.
well firstly let me introduce you to the saying "nothing is perfect" just how the titanic was unsinkable and then sank on its first run.

280 passengers trapped on train without heating for 6 1/2 hours ‹ Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion
well funny enough i was watchin an old episode of top gear were there wasa gtr vs public transport. and the trans are never late. and if they are late the train company writes to your employer explaing why it was their fault.

also our trains are never late , only bad weather is a factor. mind you all you need to fix our trains is a spanner and thats it. there ancient. it needs to generate enough torque to move it. so just before it move it reves like hell and vibrates badly. i just take the bus instead it, much cheaper and more of a easier ride but they do come late by about +/-10 min
5871508323_3b95fae4d9.jpg



Well it was 2 am when I wrote the post and I try to put a Japanese Product against a Chinese product. Yes, the comparison is a bit weird, better analogy is KA-50 and JF-17. they are comparable in price and function. So just replace the F-15 on my analogy with KA-50.
2am is ok, all you need is coffee and your good. the the t-50 vs the fc-1 under the same situation i would pick the fc-1 its more reliable and more gurantied as the the t-50 has a end user linence issue. which led to the us blocking the sale of the jet to uzbekistan. the performance of both jets is near enough the same.

also you sent this message at 4pm [ish] uk time and over in austrailia its 4am ish, what are you doing at 4 in the morning? go to sleep
:sleep:

anyhow i will put an end on this and move on.

regards
 
we want better deal and more financing. Japan gave a better deal and thus they won it. Chinese should stop crying. If they want to bag the other deals of other routes in India.. be more competitive in your financing and beat Japan or just go back home....lol.

You demand a better deal with more financing then kowtow three times to the Dragon with respect. Why should China cry, when your Prime Minister was grovelling on the floor requesting Chinese investment to flow into infrastructure projects in India. Chinese Companies have built 18,000 KM of HSR tracks domestically, therefore they are a giant in this industry as Africa and Europe will fall into there grasp. We shall see how fast the Japanese can build this project, when red tape and land acquisition is a problem in your country.
 
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