China: Doing it all yourself has its drawbacks

[Martian2]

ATTENTION INDIANS!

LOOK AT THIS!

China ascends to number two on Fortune 500 - Yahoo! News

and all Chinese companies in top 10 are state owned

I don't see a problem. They can always privatize later.

 

[Jade]

I don't see a problem. They can always privatize later.

Once you privatize, they will be out of top ten

 

[Martian2]

Once you privatize, they will be out of top ten

You're retarded. Privatization only affects stock ownership. The underlying business remains unchanged.

The massive Chinese oil companies have oil reserves and long term contracts. Ownership does not affect their business.

In the case of State Grid, its assets are the electrical generation and distribution network. Their sales will also be unaffected by a change in stock ownership.

 

[antonius123]

Yes, it was abandoned because it was totally unnecessary, but still there was exoatmospheric correction thats why R-27K is the first ASBM. And there is even no evidence that DF-21D is working or even capable to match R-27K performance, there was never reported any succesfull tests of DF21 hitting moving ship

Since you bring no evidence while your statement against available evidence, I can say the other way round easily:

• There is strong evidence that R-27K is not said as first ASBM
• There is no evidence that R-27K performance could match even close to that of DF-21D
• There is indication that DF-21D performance is greater than R-27K since R-27K was finally abandoned later while it is DF-21D which is declared as the first/true ASBM

Right?

 

[trinity]

I don't see a problem. They can always privatize later.

Its not about seeing a problem. There isn;t a problem. The only point I notice immdeiately is that bineg stated owned entities, it woud be fairly easy to achieve that given the kind of govt support and population they have.

 

[Martian2]

Its not about seeing a problem. There isn;t a problem. The only point I notice immdeiately is that bineg stated owned entities, it woud be fairly easy to achieve that given the kind of govt support and population they have.

I have no idea what you're talking about. India has a population that is just as large as China's. Your companies receive plenty of government subsidies. This is also true of U.S. Boeing and Airbus (see their dueling lawsuits at the WTO).

The Chinese companies have worked hard to develop giant offshore oil rigs, FPSOs, and other fabulous technologies to justify their production and revenue.

Your Indian oil companies aren't worth much, because you lack the technology to exploit your offshore oil and gas assets. Don't whine just because the Chinese have been busy developing advanced technology and you Indians can't keep up.

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CNOOC finds pearl in Enping

China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) Floating Production, Storage, and Offloading vessel (FPSO)

Helicopter landing on CNOOC FPSO

CNOOC finds pearl in Enping - Upstream Online

"CNOOC finds pearl in Enping

CHINA National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) has made a significant oil discovery in the Enping Trough of the Pearl River Mouth basin in the eastern part of the South China Sea.

Xu Yihe 18 June 2010 01:47 GMT

Hopes: Enping find raises CNOOC's expectations in the South China Sea

Industry sources said that the find could pave the way for a new standalone field development based around a floating production, storage and offloading vessel.

The discovery, which has yet to be publicly confirmed, was made through the drilling of exploration well Enping 22 in late May. The discovery well confirmed a pay zone thickness of more than 100 metres, one source said. Sources added that CNOOC could announce the discovery soon.

The well lies at a location about 100 kilometres south-west of the Panyu oilfield, which was just surrendered to CNOOC by Devon Energy in April and north of Block 28/20, which is being explored by Italy's Eni.

Industry officials suggested that oil reserves at the Enping Trough discovery could total up to 30 million cubic metres (190 million barrels), which could support a scheme to produce 30,000 barrels per day when production starts.

The field is 100% owned by CNOOC, which is understood to be planning to drill appraisal wells to further determine the size of the reserves.

Once confirmed, Enping could turn out to be the largest find to have been made in the shallow waters of the South China Sea in recent years.

Its discovery will be a boost for CNOOC's amibitions to double its domestic hydrocarbons supply, including liquefied natural gas imports, to 100 million tonnes per annum (2 million barrels of oil equivalent per day) by 2020. China's offshore output capacity is expected to reach about 1.4 million boepd by 2015, up from an expected tally of about 1 million boepd this year.

CNOOC has participated in major deep-water success on deep-water block 29/26 where operator Husky Energy has made multi-trillion cubic feet natural gas discoveries that are set to be developed. However, discoveries in the shallow-water areas at the Pearl River Mouth basin have been scarce in recent years potentially making Enping a new breakthrough.

CNOOC does have some acreage in the Enping Trough that is on offer to foreign companies for exploration. Block 27/06 is categorised as being in the region, though it is not immediately clear how close that acreage is to the Enping 22 discovery.

Well-placed industry officials said CNOOC is already thinking about building a new floater to develop the field once reserves and an overall development plan confirm that it justifies commercial production.

"The new discovery doesn't favour tie-back development, as the nearest producing field is about 100 kilometres away," said one source.

Since 1993, China has built about 13 of the 17 floaters currently operating in its waters. Some of these producing floaters have also been upgraded or had their lifespans extended.

Published: 18 June 2010 01:47 GMT | Last updated: 18 June 2010 01:47 GMT"

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China deepens its resolve on energy security

China's Hai Yang Shi You 201, the "first deepwater pipe-laying [vessel] in Asia capable of operating at a water depth of 3,000 meters."

Press Center-Press Center-Deepwater Pipe-laying Vessel "Hai Yang Shi You 201" Docks for Debugging---Powered By SiteEngine

"On May 28, "Hai Yang Shi You 201" docked at the offshore engineering yard of Jiangsu Rongsheng Heavy Industries for outfitting and debugging.

Invested upon by Offshore Oil Engineering Co., Ltd. (COOEC), it is the first deepwater pipe-laying crane in Asia capable of operating in a water depth of 3,000 meters. With a Dynamic Positioning Class 3 System and a lifting capacity of 4,000 tons, "Hai Yang Shi You 201" is equipped to operate in unrestricted navigation outside the Arctic.

"Hai Yang Shi You 201" has integrated a number of world-class manufacturing technologies, and its detail design and construction were independently carried out in China. It belongs to the Eleventh Five-Year National Science and Technology Program and National High-Tech R & D Program, or 863 Program.

The project was launched in May 2005 and the construction began in September 2008. After the completion of "Hai Yang Shi You 201", COOEC is to take charge of its operation.

Release date: 28 May 2010"

China deepens its resolve on energy security > Oil News

"China deepens its resolve on energy security
OilOnline Managers posted on 7/13/2010

Chinese companies have stepped up their activities over the last year, and two recent reports from analysts Infield Energy Analysts and Wood Mackenzie suggest increased activity in the near future, especially as the NOCs venture into deeper waters.

In China's deepwater campaign, Infield forecasts a large-scale home-grown exploration and development campaign off China.

Over the next two decades, CNOOC plans to invest $30 billion in deepwater plays in the South China Sea with an aim to increase production of oil and gas to over 1 million b/d by 2020. Chinese NOCs, however, have little experience in deepwater operations, the report observes, as 98% of the country's operational platform infrastructure is within water depths of 500m or less.

China is moving into deepwater, though, and the DP3 Hai Yang Shi You 981 - the first deepwater semi to be designed and built in China - left the Shanghai Waigaoqiao Shipbuilding yard in late February. It can operate in waters to 3000m and drill to 10,000m. Additionally, Rongsheng Heavy Industry has built a deepwater pipelay vessel. The Infield paper calls the construction of the semi and pipelay vessel 'China's first steps towards a deepwater campaign'.

Of CNOOC's $30 billion planned investment, $2.2 billion will be used to engineer and fabricate a deepwater MODU, $880 million will go to the fabrication of a 3000m water depth drilling vessel, and $440 million is earmarked for a deepwater pipelay vessel, the paper notes. CNOOC believes the South China Sea is the offshore equivalent of its Daqing oil field, which produced 1 million b/d at its peak.

So far, CNOOC has, as a partner, logged a few deepwater finds offshore China, including the Liuhua 29-1 field and the nearby Liwan 3-1. The latter's FEED is complete, and a development plan was submitted to regulatory authorities earlier this year. Liwan 3-1, discovered in 2006, was the first deepwater discovery in Chinese waters; it holds an estimated 100-150bcm of gas. About a month ago, Husky Energy, operator of both the Liwan 3-1 and Liuhua 34-2 fields, announced an appraisal at its Liuhua 29-1 discovery in 765m of water gave 'encouraging results'.

The Liuhua 29-1 field is Husky's third significant deepwater gas discovery in block 29/26.

Sinopec is also launching a deepwater program and has acquired a stake in block 18 offshore Angola. Sinopec's plan is to gain deepwater experience offshore Angola and use the experience to develop its deepwater assets offshore China, according to the report.

PetroChina has also acquired three deepwater blocks offshore Myanmar. The company plans to start deepwater exploration in the South China Sea in 2015.

In Wood Mackenzie's recent report Chinese NOCs step up international expansion, the firm said its review indicates intense activity over the last year will result in net overseas production reaching a new record level of 1 million boe/d in 2010 from CNPC/PetroChina, Sinopec and CNOOC combined.

'In total the three Chinese NOCs [i.e. National Oil Company] have committed nearly US$25 billion to asset and corporate acquisitions since April 2009, far exceeding previous annual spending,' says Norman Valentine, senior analyst at WoodMac. 'Until recently Wood Mackenzie has characterized international expansion by the Asian NOCs as relatively conservative. Acquisitions over the last 12 months have changed the picture - we estimate that the three Chinese NOCs alone accounted for nearly 20% of global deal value in the first quarter of 2010.'

WoodMac anticipates this increased activity will continue.

'With large-scale deals of over US$9 billion committed so far in 2010, we expect the Chinese NOCs to maintain high levels of deal activity,' Valentine says.

The firm estimates Chinese companies have accessed 2 billion boe of commercial reserves.

As a result, Valentine says, WoodMac expects the NOCs will produce over 1 million boe/d from overseas operations this year.

WoodMac concludes that while it may take some time for Chinese NOCs to be considered leading players in the industry's emerging resource segments, Chinese NOCs are well positioned to maintain high levels of corporate activity in the future and build on the milestone production levels of 2010. OE

By: Jennifer Pallanich
Issue: July 2010"

[Note: Thank you to "Marchpole" for the picture of "Hai Yang Shi You 201" deepwater vessel.]

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A Chinese-built drilling rig is expected to arrive in Cuban waters in early 2011; likely opening the way for full-scale exploration of the island’s untapped offshore fields.

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China's Tianjing is Asia's (and World's 3rd) largest dredger

Tianjing is China's/Asia's largest dredger. "The dredgers will deepen the mooring areas along the quays of these ports, which serve the oil & gas industry."

http://www.most.gov.cn/eng/newsletters/2010/201002/t20100204_75813.htm

“'Tianjing,' China’s first large dredger, was delivered to its operator on January 19, 2010 in Shenzhen. 127.5m long and 23m wide, the new boat is equipped with an array of state-of-the-art mud digging equipment; with a total installed capacity reaching 20,020 kilowatts. The onboard reamer is designed with a power of 4200 kw. As the most powerful digging system in Asia, the dredger is able to dredge up large rocks up to 40 Mpa; in addition to mud, sand, and little rocks. Application of a large dredger may reduce the number of sea floor explosion events and boost the safety of projects; in addition to its environmental protection functions.

The boat is also equipped with three efficient mud pumps that can be used to reclaim land from the sea for a distance up to 6,000 m. Its unloading capacity allows the boat to ship the mud and sand it has dug out to other desired destinations; expanding the scope of operation. It works efficiently because of its mobility, easy dispatch, and fine adaptability."

 

[zzzz]

Since you bring no evidence while your statement against available evidence, I can say the other way round easily:

• There is strong evidence that R-27K is not said as first ASBM
• There is no evidence that R-27K performance could match even close to that of DF-21D
• There is indication that DF-21D performance is greater than R-27K since R-27K was finally abandoned later while it is DF-21D which is declared as the first/true ASBM

Right?

Are you intellectually compromised? R-27K is the guided ballistic missile that was used to target moving ships. First tests started in 1970. During tests it succefully hit a naval vessel with a direct hit. This is 100% evidence that R-27K is the first ASBM.

Yes there is no evidence that R-27K can match DF-21D. Because DF-21D - is nothing. Its just couple of numbers and letters. There is no evidence that it can even hit ships. There were never such tests reported. There is no evidence that it is even an ASBM. And even if it will be proved that it is ASBM it cannt be first ASBM by definition.

 

[antonius123]

Are you intellectually compromised? R-27K is the guided ballistic missile that was used to target moving ships. First tests started in 1970. During tests it succefully hit a naval vessel with a direct hit. This is 100% evidence that R-27K is the first ASBM.

In fact you lack intellect.

It is claimed by russian source, and it doesnt explain if the ship is moving or still.
But your source has already stated clearly that R-27K is purely BALLISTIC; it is enough evidence that your R-27K is not at the same level.

And I have showed you evidence that you ignore that it is DF-21D not R-27K that is said as FIRST ASBM missile :p

Yes there is no evidence that R-27K can match DF-21D. Because DF-21D - is nothing. Its just couple of numbers and letters. There is no evidence that it can even hit ships. There were never such tests reported. There is no evidence that it is even an ASBM. And even if it will be proved that it is ASBM it cannt be first ASBM by definition.

Who said?

See this:

A pair of Willard by Kato Yang interview can be seen, China’s Dongfeng-21D anti-ship ballistic missile is no longer out of reach. Beijing has successfully developed, tested and deployed the world’s first to take advantage of land-based mobile launchers, remote targeting mobile carrier battle groups in the weapons systems. Second Artillery Corps has been in conflict with the use of DF-21D missile’s ability to deal with the U.S. aircraft carrier battle group, therefore, can be expected that the deterrent power of China, there has been increased.
China’s DF-21D missiles with combat capability have been deployed to the coastal | WAREYE

It is clear that R-27K is purely ballistic missile that could only hit ship which barely move. It is stated and indicated in your own source, understand?

 

[zzzz]

But your source has already stated clearly that R-27K is purely BALLISTIC

R-27K's warhead is purely ballistic. The missile is guided. Warhead is separated from second stage at final phase of flight couple of sec before impact. You clearly dont have a clue about subject. Before commenting on issues you lack understanding you need to learn first what is the difference between warhead and missile.

See this:

Show me any single report of DF-21D hitting a ship during tests. Im sure you could test how this missile hit area with 1km of radius around ship

 

[antonius123]

R-27K's warhead is purely ballistic. The missile is guided. Warhead is separated from second stage at final phase of flight couple of sec before impact. You clearly dont have a clue about subject. Before commenting on issues you lack understanding you need to learn first what is the difference between warhead and missile.

It is you who dont have clue about the subject.

You said : R-27K warhead is purely balistic, good!
While do you understand that DF-21D's warhead is not ballistic?? LOL

Thats why it is said that DF-21D is the FIRST ASBM, as it is the missile that is capable to hit the moving target on the sea

Show me any single report of DF-21D hitting a ship during tests. Im sure you could test how this missile hit area with 1km of radius around ship

Have you read the article I showed you the above saying that Beijing has been SUCCESSFUL in developing, testing, deploying the FIRST ASBM (DF-21D)? or are you illiterate?

Even regardless success or not, your R-27K is not at the same level as DF-21D, as you yourself finally have admitted that R-27K's warhead is purely ballistic :p

Means: R-27K is old fashioned.
Your R-27K success claim is also claimed by russian.

 

[Martian2]

"DF-21D can hit 'slow-moving targets'”

Read last bold paragraph at the bottom of the article.

Admiral Robert F. Willard, Commander, U.S. Pacific Command

China Testing Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM); U.S. Preparing Accordingly–Updated With Latest Analysis & Sources|Andrew S. Erickson

"On 24 August 2010, Admiral Robert F. Willard, Commander, U.S. Pacific Command (PACOM), made the following statement to Japanese media in Tokyo:

“To our knowledge, [China’s ASBM] has undergone repeated tests and it is probably very close to being operational.”

A 16 August 2010 background briefing by a Senior U.S. Department of Defense official indicates that China still needs to successfully integrate its ASBM with C4ISR in order to operationalize it:

“We continue to be concerned about their efforts to development this—this particular system. I would say the primary area… where we see them still facing roadblocks is in integrating the missile system with the C4-ISR. And they still have a ways to go before they manage to get that integrated so that they have an operational and effective system.”

“But nonetheless, this is an area that, for all the obvious reasons, remains, you know, of great concern for us.”

The just-released 2010 U.S. Department of Defense Report on China’s Military offers a general background:

“Augmented by direct acquisition of foreign weapons and technology, [defense industry] reforms have enabled China to develop and produce advanced weapon systems that incorporate mid-1990s technology in many areas, and some systems—particularly ballistic missiles—that rival any in the world today.” (p. 43)

“Production trends and resource allocation appear to favor missile and space systems….” (p. 44).

“China has the most active land-based ballistic and cruise missile program in the world. It is developing and testing several new classes.” (p. 1)

“China is developing an anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) based on a variant of the CSS-5 medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM). The missile has a range in excess of 1,500 km, is armed with a maneuverable warhead, and when integrated with appropriate command and control systems, is intended to provide the PLA the capability to attack ships, including aircraft carriers, in the western Pacific Ocean.” (p. 2)

“The PLA is acquiring conventional MRBMs to increase the range at which it can conduct precision strikes against land targets and naval ships, including aircraft carriers, operating far from China’s shores out to the first island chain.” (p. 31)

“The PLA Navy is improving its over-the-horizon (OTH) targeting capability with Sky Wave and Surface Wave OTH radars. OTH radars could be used in conjunction with imagery satellites to assist in locating targets at great distances from PRC shores to support long range precision strikes, including by anti-ship ballistic missiles.” (p. 2)

“Over the long term, improvements in China’s C4ISR, including space-based and over-the-horizon sensors, could enable Beijing to identify, track, and target military activities deep into the western Pacific Ocean.” (p. 37)

Based on sophisticated organizational analysis, Mark Stokes and Tiffany Ma suggest that the Second Artillery may be constructing ASBM missile brigade facilities in the northern Guangdong Province municipality of Shaoguan (韶&#20851:

“Last week, China’s state-run media quietly announced the construction of facilities for a new Second Artillery missile brigade – the 96166 Unit – in the northern Guangdong municipality of Shaoguan… the province is already home to a Second Artillery short-range ballistic missile (SRBM) brigade (the 96169 unit in Meizhou)….”

“Although the introduction of the 1,700km range solid fuelled, terminally guided DF-21C ballistic missile into Guangdong is possible, the brigade is also a candidate to be the first unit equipped with the DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM). The DF-21C, first introduced into the active inventory in 2005, is designed to attack fixed targets on land. If an ASBM is successful in passing the necessary design reviews and a sufficient sensor network is in place, the Shaoguan brigade could become the first in the PLA to field a lethal capability against moving targets at sea out to a range of 1,500-2,000km or more from launch sites.”

“The Second Artillery planned to finalize the design of the DF-21D by the end of 2010 and the establishment of a permanent deployment location often coincides with the design finalization of a new missile. However, an initial operational capability is likely a ways off, as a follow-on testing of a prototype design may be needed prior to certification for full-rate production.”

Shaoguan’s location near Hunan Province, with the inter-provincial Nanling mountains and tunnels through them that complicate satellite surveillance (under construction since at least 2008), offers significant advantages:

“Whether the unit is equipped with the DF-21C or the more advanced DF-21D maritime variant, the establishment of a conventionally-capable medium range ballistic missile brigade in Guangdong would decisively expand the Second Artillery’s striking radius. More specifically, it would enable the Second Artillery to support the Central Military Commission to enforce territorial claims in the South China Sea, or strike targets in a Taiwan-related contingency without having to overfly Japanese territory.”

Other recent indications of Chinese ASBM development progress include the reported completion of a DF-21D rocket motor facility in 2009 and the recent launch of 5 advanced Yaogan satellites, three of which were apparently placed in the same orbit on 5 March–thereby perhaps offering better coverage of critical areas along China’s maritime periphery. Another possible indication is a recent news release attributed to China Aerospace Science & Industry Corporation (CASIC) citing Wang Genbin, Deputy Director of its 4th Department, as stating that the DF-21D can hit “slow-moving targets” with a CEP (circular error probable, meaning half of missiles fired will strike within) of dozens of meters. Mark Stokes, a noted expert at the Project 2049 Institute on this and related issues, stated on 4 June 2010 that 'odds are what you’re seeing now in terms of testing is… flight tests of the [DF-21D] motor itself and the airframe… the final step would be most likely going against a target at sea in a realistic environment.'”

 

[antonius123]

R-27K's warhead is purely ballistic.

Good!

While DF-21D's Warhead is quasi ballistic.

Have you understood the difference now?

Can your R-27K do this?

 

[zzzz]

It is you who dont have clue about the subject.

You said : R-27K warhead is purely balistic, good!
While do you understand that DF-21D's warhead is not ballistic?? LOL

Thats why it is said that DF-21D is the FIRST ASBM, as it is the missile that is capable to hit the moving target on the sea

Even if DF-21D warhead is not purely ballistic so what? R-27K is still first ASBM. So its you who dont have a clue about subject.
If DF-21D warhead is really same as claimed then i will agree that it is more advanced ASBM but not first by a long shot.

Have you read the article I showed you the above saying that Beijing has been SUCCESSFUL in developing, testing, deploying the FIRST ASBM (DF-21D)? or are you illiterate?

Have you read my question or are you illiterate? I said show me the evidence that DF-21D directly hit any ship. I dont need your meaningless "sucessfully tested" statements. Report of any test with direct hit

 

[antonius123]

Even if DF-21D warhead is not purely ballistic so what? R-27K is still first ASBM. So its you who dont have a clue about subject.
If DF-21D warhead is really same as claimed then i will agree that it is more advanced ASBM but not first by a long shot.

See again the meaning of ASBM:

An anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) is a military quasiballistic missile system designed to hit a warship at sea.
Anti-ship ballistic missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The point of ASBM is quasi ballistic capability
purely ballistic missile is not effective way as ASBM, hence can not be called ASBM yet.

It is only you who desire to call your R-27K as first ASBM, while the military world only refer to DF-21D as the first ASBM.


So, you obviously have no clue about the subject you want to debate.

Have you read my question or are you illiterate? I said show me the evidence that DF-21D directly hit any ship. I dont need your meaningless "sucessfully tested" statements. Report of any test with direct hit

What kind of evidence do you expect?
Do you understand the meaning of "success in testing"?
Can we call the ASBM testing as success if it doesnt hit the target?

LOL, either you are idiot or illiterate

 

[zzzz]

See again the meaning of ASBM:

The point of ASBM is quasi ballistic capability
purely ballistic missile is not effective way as ASBM, hence can not be called ASBM yet.

It is only you who desire to call your R-27K as first ASBM, while the military world only refer to DF-21D as the first ASBM.

Idiot. R-27K is a missile with quasi-ballistic capability. Only warhead is ballistic and non-guided. And military world refer to R-27K as the first ASBM. More and more evidence that you are retarded.

What kind of evidence do you expect?
Do you understand the meaning of "success in testing"?
Can we call the ASBM testing as success if it doesnt hit the target?

Yes, you can call "success in testing" if missile detonated lets say 300m near the ship relying on nuclear payload. Or do you expect China says that they failed in development of true ASBM? Still no evidence that DF-21D is capable to directly hit the target