China: Doing it all yourself has its drawbacks

[Yeti]

The new J-20 strike fighter program (first unveiled during Defense Secretary Gates’ January 2011 visit to China), especially needs domestic engine development and production breakthroughs because Russia appears reluctant to sell the high-powered engines that could enable the J-20 to supercruise (sustain supersonic flight without using inefficient afterburners) and thereby match the performance of the world’s most modern fighters such as the Lockheed Martin F-22 and Sukhoi T-50/PAK FA. Such developments would help cement China as a formidable regional air power and deserve close attention from policymakers.


However, evidence still suggests that China’s main military jet engine maker—Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC)—is struggling to maintain consistent quality control as it scales up production of the WS-10 Taihang turbofan that China hopes to use to power more of its fighter fleet. This issue is causing problems with reliability and keeping China’s tactical aircraft heavily reliant on imported Russian engines. China’s July 2011 order of 123 additional AL-31 jet engines supports the view that domestically-made engines still are not good enough to rely on as the mainstay to power Chinese fighters.

The latest jet engine import numbers suggest Chinese engines may now power roughly 20% of the country’s most modern fighters and strike aircraft as well as the JF-17 fighters it is exporting to Pakistan. That means at least 80% of China’s tactical aircraft fleet runs on Russian-made engines and will likely continue to rely substantially on imported Russian engines to support its tactical aircraft programs over the next two years. China’s high-performance jet engine programs are nearing takeoff but they, and China’s development of a more competitive precision manufacturing sector, appear to still have some additional runway ahead of them.


China can copy most parts of the AL-31 engines that power much of China’s J-10 and J-11 fighter fleets, but still must import turbine blades from Russia.



Is China About to Get Its Military Jet Engine Program Off the Ground? - China Real Time Report - WSJ

 

[Diamond_Gold]

What self-pitying rubbish.

Which scientist of technician was sentenced to death at Nuremberg?

Yeah, every scientists and technicians should be execuated for their particpation in WW2... including the allies and indian ones! LOLOL.

 

[manojb]

Do you seriously believe that India, like most countries, doesn't have technology spies in various countries?

So far no one got caught spying in foreign countries for DRDO or ISRO. well done indian spies.

 

[Sanchez]

This is from Russian media and you call us stupid? learn to read english first

Chinese clone of SU-27

Yes, you are really stupid.

Your comment is not worth my time I suggest you go learn English first and come back

Seems like some Chinese members are getting very defensive but the article is not a Indian one I must point out. China is still using Russian engines and turbine blades even with the many years of copying and cloning

You don't know a fk, my son.

 

[Yeti]

Yes, you are really stupid.



You don't know a fk, my son.

Sure fool and you need laser surgery on your eyes

Chinese can't accept the fact they are still using Russian engines and parts like turbine blades

 

[Yeti]

British expert believes that China Taihang aeroengine used American technology | WAREYE


Recently, a British military experts believe that China in the development of WS-10 "Taihang" turbofan engines for military use in the process of obtaining business from the United States CFM56 turbofan engine technology.

Russian media said the Chinese WS-10 "Taihang" engine development program comparable to the United States that year’s "Apollo" moon program, are extremely important strategic significance. Experts believe that a weakness of domestic manufacturing of advanced jet engines can not become a superpower country. WS-10 engine thrust does not open when the afterburner is unclear, but sources said it up to 132 kN afterburning. This indicator and the United States of its F-15 and F-16 are equipped with the F110 engine quite.



WS-10 Taihang Historical Development of the engine

Russian media said the United States to China in 1982 provided for the assessment of CFM56II two engines. Although only a commercial engine, but CFM56II the core components – high-pressure compressor, combustor and high pressure turbine is the same with the F110. U.S. Department of Defense was worried that China will steal by CFM56II advanced engine manufacturing technology, and therefore opposed to the Chinese side. But the then Reagan administration insisted the deal, the Chinese people dismantling the engine and its components in detail. It is reported that it has not returned to the United States the last two engines, because they were "destroyed in a fire."

Russian media said, but just can not get to observe the structure of materials and production methods related to the engine enough information. Then the Chinese also carried out a lot of work, a generic version engine components has been completed.

Here you go, idiot! You need a brain!

If you trying to offer me your small cabbage brain I must decline your offer

China is one of the largest purchasers of Russian engines. The current technological level of this country does not allow manufacturing its own engines suitable for long-term operation. The country manufactures WS-10 engines and some other models for J-10 and J-11 aircraft, however, their reliability, thrust and time between overhaul are inferior to the indicators of Russian AL-31 engines.



Chinese Ministry of Defense acquired Russian engines to the amount of $700 million - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

 

[ephone]

From what I have read from the past two decades, for any big advancements, e.g. space stations, rockets, subs, navigation systems and etc, China normally underestimated the delivery date and the west also underestimate China's ability to deliver them as well.

So in the end, the result always show China beat the target date easily.

In this case, it seems that China will be able to do the same again. Sorry for those naysayers

When, in January 2011, China publicised the first test flight of the stealth fighter it is developing, the fact that the J-20 was advanced enough to get off the ground surprised many in the aviation world.

Since then, the Chengdu-made aircraft has had more practice. According to Chinese state media the first prototype completed its 60th test flight late last year and the second of four prototypes started test flights this year.

In addition, military experts in China say the country is developing a second lighter-weight stealth fighter, the J-60.

Without doubt, these projects are powerful symbols of China’s emerging military might.

“It puts China in the company of very few nations that have the wealth and the determination to develop such a programme,” says Tim Huxley, head of the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) in Asia.

The only potential rivals for the J-20 are the Lockheed Martin-produced F-22 Raptor and a stealth fighter under joint development by Russia and India.

But, while the January 2011 surprise showed the risk of underestimating China’s military development programmes, experts now say they should not be overestimated either.

The Pentagon has said it expects the J-20 to be operational no sooner than 2018 – in line with an estimate given by the Chinese deputy air force chief in 2009.

Tai Ming Cheung, an expert on the Chinese military’s technological development at the University of California in San Diego, says: “Whether the Pentagon’s estimate that the J-20 will go into service by 2018 is accurate is anyone’s guess, but my sense is that is wildly optimistic.”

Pointing to the gap of more than a decade between the first flight of the US F-22 fighter and its coming into service, he argues the J-20 will have at least a decade of testing and evaluation before it is ready for production.

“Finding the right engines remains a major obstacle. The [domestically made] WS-10 is still plagued by problems, especially of high quality manufacturing, and there appears to be no quick fix in sight,” he says. “The J-20 is a leading priority in the 12th Five Year defence development plan, so will require plenty of funding and high leadership attention.”

Industry sources agree that engine development remains the soft spot in the Chinese military air power.

An executive at a western aerospace company says: “In missile and satellite technology, China has managed greatly to narrow the gap with the US. But aircraft engines are an area where, despite decades of reverse engineering of licensed technology, they are still far behind.”

Avic, the state-owned aerospace conglomerate, plans to invest Rmb10bn ($1.6bn) over the next five years in the development of the high-end turbofan engines needed in an aircraft of the J-20 type. Meanwhile, the People’s Liberation Army Air Force remains dependent on Russian and Ukrainian supplies.

The J-10 and J-11, China’s fourth-generation fighters, are powered by Russian Salyut AL-31 FN engines.

In July 2011, Beijing ordered another 123 of those engines, bringing total orders of this engine model since 2001 to more than 1,000.

Beijing this year requested 48 Sukhoi Su-35 fighters from Russia, a deal still being delayed because of Moscow’s concerns that China could copy its technology.

But the request could reflect China’s desire to insure itself against the risk of relying only on domestic development.

But, despite the challenges, China’s growing air power has already thrown its large shadow ahead.

James Hardy, Asia-Pacific editor at IHS Jane’s Defence Weekly, says: “China’s military modernisation over the past decade and its more assertive posture, for example in the South China Sea since 2008, has driven south-east Asian countries such as the Philippines to step up fighter procurement.


“US allies in the region, such as, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Australia are buying – or thinking of buying – F-35s to maintain interoperability with US forces and stay at the cutting edge of combat aircraft technology.”



China: Doing it all yourself has its drawbacks - FT.com

 

[Joe Shearer]

It's called a peanut, you eat pinuts? was that some kind of Chinese clone for a peanut

As an English commentator put it, Intellectual Property doesn't translate well into Chinese.

 

[Sanchez]

As an English commentator put it, Intellectual Property doesn't translate well into Chinese.

Think like an Indian, talk like a British!

 

[qwerrty]

indians, please learn to make to rifle and bullet first, then come and talk. this is very embarrassing.. a country that has no has no tech restriction like china still incapable of making simple weapons after many years..ridiculous! lol

supah powah

India Shops For An Assault Rifle
Defence News - India Shops For An Assault Rifle
India to purchase Russian ammo for $1 billion
India to purchase Russian ammo for $1 billion - English pravda.ru

 

[danger007]

indians, please learn to make to rifle and bullet first, then come and talk. this is very embarrassing.. a country that has no has no tech restriction like china still incapable of making simple weapons after many years..ridiculous! lol

supah powah

Im unable to get your nationality....... are you from new zealand or Malaysian????? yes sir we need to learn to xerox weapons and tag as indigenous.....

 

[S10]

Indian laughing at Chinese for military development is like the failing class clown laughing at a student for getting only a A- instead of A+. Meanwhile, the gap just gets bigger and bigger.

 

[Pak47]

Lol.. its bad when the Chinese do it.. but when the U.S. or Russia reverse engineering.. its no problem.

the U.S. reverse engineering the Mig-17/19

http://area51specialprojects.com/migs_area51.html

 

[Lacus Clyne]

lol,indian became the agent of U.S again,can you indian tell me loudly what chinese copy your indian tech.?
looking from ancient times to the present,no country have qualification to blame china.i wonder The Wright brothers should be angry at indian for LCA.

 

[ChinaToday]

This is kinda confusing first they accused us of copy and reverse engineer now they said we doing it all by ouselves