China completes development of 155 mm AH4 howitzer

[Han Patriot]

Sorry, this is the last of the trials, but it'll basically be cleared for bulk production after.

I will wait....and then something will pop-up, it will be delayed for another 10 years. By then, some guy will claim it is obsolete, you will start importing again. This is a cycle, do you see it?

Right, because 80s artillery pieces mostly had thermal sights, muzzle velocity radar, auto laying, INS, gun control computer, etc. Okay.

I dont know what you're on about heavy, it's a towed artillery system. They're all going to be heavy.

Right, and modern LIGHTWEIGHT, TOWED howitzers half the weight doesn't have it? Gd luck on towing it up your amazing Indian roads to the border. If it's so great, I wonder why you are buying M777.

They are making a rifle -

But if the user keeps changing the requirements, again, and again, then imports, what is the point?

Yah, can you tell me how many of those plastic model guns are in service? The point is your whole freaking military industrial complex is incompetent. Get it? This is a slap to wake you up from your bollywood fantasy. OOO wiki tells me the rifle is still under trials as recent as JANUARY 2016.

China wouldnt produce 80% of the things if the user, industry, and production agency wasnt working in tone. And also the forced arms ban as well.

With or without the ban, we would have reverse, learn, absorb, improve, develop, innovate. We have no access to Western arms but we still have access to Russian tech. And really, apart from missile related technology, western countries continue to sell you arms, yet ......

And the fire control computer for Arjun is being made by TATA..

Notice the face saving wording, 'being', 'shall', 'will'.... how many are in service and how much 'indigenous' content? The last time I remember, India don't even have a single chip foundry. So where are those controllers, electronics made in?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

I will wait....and then something will pop-up, it will be delayed for another 10 years. By then, some guy will claim it is obsolete, you will start importing again. This is a cycle, do you see it?

That's not Indian industry's fault. The reason India hasnt bought a artillery piece since bofors scandal in the 80s isnt industry's fault. And the reason the IA didnt get anything, even after making a, 'plan', or 'requirements', in 1999 isnt industry's fault. Foreign vendors were also waiting. That isnt the fault of Indian industry, or outside industry.

These are all political faults, not anything to do with India's industry. For the love of god, till literally a year ago, private firms like Bharat Forge couldnt even test their systems in India.

But that is changing. K9 thunders have finished trials and is selected to be the tracked artillery requirement. A completely new manufacturing plant will be raised by Samsaung and L&T. First armored manufacturing plant outside of OFB, first in the private sector. Dhanush will enter bulk production, wheeled requirement, etc. will all join.

Right, and modern LIGHTWEIGHT, TOWED howitzers half the weight doesn't have it? Gd luck on towing it up your amazing Indian roads to the border. If it's so great, I wonder why you are buying M777.

Again, it's a towed howitzer system. It's going to be heavy.

And did you just compare the M777 acquisition to the towed artillery requirement?? Really, do you know anything about what's happening India to even talk?

Towed artillery system are still very much relevant to both India and Pakistan in places like Punjab, Sindh, etc.

Yah, can you tell me how many of those plastic model guns are in service? The point is your whole freaking military industrial complex is incompetent. Get it? This is a slap to wake you up from your bollywood fantasy. OOO wiki tells me the rifle is still under trials as recent as JANUARY 2016.

Plastic gun? Can you have a normal debate? Or are you a thick headed China stronk guy?

Let me tell you something about Indian defence, the MCIWS is perfect of how things have gone -

The IA filled a requirement for a multi caliber platform that can accommodate 5.56*45. 6.8*43, and 7.62*39 cals. DRDO chased the requirement, doing development trials, and then guess what? The IA does a complete 180 and doesnt what any of those calibers and now wants 7.62*51 right in the middle of it's developmental trials. Ironically, only a very few modern rifles can house that caliber. These things are rampant in Indian defence.

With or without the ban, we would have reverse, learn, absorb, improve, develop, innovate. We have no access to Western arms but we still have access to Russian tech. And really, apart from missile related technology, western countries continue to sell you arms, yet ......

You would do nothing without political will. Please tell me. Would your government not make any, or even buy a artillery system in a span of 40 some years?

If your developer, industry, government, and users werent in tone, no absorbing, improving, blah, blah would happen, period. Forget about your China stronk this and that.

In India's context, all four are desynced on many things. The user will look one way, developer will another, production agency doesnt care, and the government is clueless. This is India's defence context. Even worse, all of them have no competition, or their jobs arent on the line, ever.

Things are however changing, privatization is happening. The forced monopoly in defence and aerospace is slowly coming to an end. The liberalization of the sectors is happening.

 

[Han Patriot]

That's not Indian industry's fault. The reason India hasnt bought a artillery piece since bofors scandal in the 80s isnt industry's fault. And the reason the IA didnt get anything, even after making a, 'plan', or 'requirements', in 1999 isnt industry's fault. Foreign vendors were also waiting. That isnt the fault of Indian industry, or outside industry.

These are all political faults, not anything to do with India's industry. For the love of god, till literally a year ago, private firms like Bharat Forge couldnt even test their systems in India.

But that is changing. K9 thunders have finished trials and is selected to be the tracked artillery requirement. A completely new manufacturing plant will be raised by Samsaung and L&T. First armored manufacturing plant outside of OFB, first in the private sector. Dhanush will enter bulk production, wheeled requirement, etc. will all join.

Good for you, see you when you get there. Btw, the Indian Government is incompetent, that we know, but the State PSUs are also the same, hence the word 'MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. How competent is your private sector defense companies remains to be seen. Remember, it could still end up as a for profit screw driver and sticker tech endeavor.

Again, it's a towed howitzer system. It's going to be heavy.

And did you just compare the M777 acquisition to the towed artillery requirement?? Really, do you know anything about what's happening India to even talk?

Towed artillery system are still very much relevant to both India and Pakistan in places like Punjab, Sindh, etc.

You do know the M777 is also a towable system right? If you prefer heavier guns with the same calibre, be my guest, Chinese prefer AH-4 in the Tibetan plateau.

Plastic gun? Can you have a normal debate? Or are you a thick headed China stronk guy?

Let me tell you something about Indian defence, the MCIWS is perfect of how things have gone -

The IA filled a requirement for a multi caliber platform that can accommodate 5.56*45. 6.8*43, and 7.62*39 cals. DRDO chased the requirement, doing development trials, and then guess what? The IA does a complete 180 and doesnt what any of those calibers and now wants 7.62*51 right in the middle of it's developmental trials. Ironically, only a very few modern rifles can house that caliber. These things are rampant in Indian defence.

Jus kidding, it could be a 'composite' rifle. Like how they use to claim LCA is the 'bestest' plane in the world because of the composites.

You don't have to tell me the grandpa story about the problems with the Indian rifle, I just want to know whether they are in service. You are telling me you have these super duper rifles in the pics. I just asked a simple question, are they in service. You can just answer..NO.

You would do nothing without political will. Please tell me. Would your government not make any, or even buy a artillery system in a span of 40 some years?

If your developer, industry, government, and users werent in tone, no absorbing, improving, blah, blah would happen, period. Forget about your China stronk this and that.

In India's context, all four are desynced on many things. The user will look one way, developer will another, production agency doesnt care, and the government is clueless. This is India's defence context. Even worse, all of them have no competition, or their jobs arent on the line, ever.

Things are however changing, privatization is happening. The forced monopoly in defence and aerospace is slowly coming to an end. The liberalization of the sectors is happening.

Agree, hence the notion, India is all TALK. .

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Good for you, see you when you get there. Btw, the Indian Government is incompetent, that we know, but the State PSUs are also the same, hence the word 'MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. How competent is your private sector defense companies remains to be seen. Remember, it could still end up as a for profit screw driver and sticker tech endeavor.

Of course both are. But state owned PSUs are useless because of the government is clueless themselves.

The sector will have multiple vendors now, not just one in each space. Continuing to get screw driver tech will not work in the long run, as they eventually do not want to be tied up with out side OEMs, or deal with outside bureaucracy. They've been in the game 6 some years, some like Reliance, maybe 2 years? They're building a foundation at the moment. And the current government policies are helping them raise whole manufacturing plants through outside OEMs.

At the moment, competition among production agencies is good enough. Something which never existed.

You do know the M777 is also a towable system right? If you prefer heavier guns with the same calibre, be my guest, Chinese prefer AH-4 in the Tibetan plateau.

Congrats, doesnt apply for Pakistan's or India's doctrine. Both are needed.

You don't have to tell me the grandpa story about the problems with the Indian rifle, I just want to know whether they are in service. You are telling me you have these super duper rifles in the pics. I just asked a simple question, are they in service. You can just answer..NO.

Again, I just gave you examples. The things your own users were inducted, werent the best, certainly not comparable to outside standards. But they were inducted, improved on, etc. because all four of the players were involved in the induction and improved of the rifle, etc.

They certainly wont change requirements midway to suit other rifles completely.

 

[Han Patriot]

Of course both are. But state owned PSUs are useless because of the government is clueless themselves.

The sector will have multiple vendors now, not just one in each space. Continuing to get screw driver tech will not work in the long run, as they eventually do not want to be tied up with out side OEMs, or deal with outside bureaucracy. They've been in the game 6 some years, some like Reliance, maybe 2 years? They're building a foundation at the moment. And the current government policies are helping them raise whole manufacturing plants through outside OEMs.

At the moment, competition among production agencies is good enough. Something which never existed.





Congrats, doesnt apply for Pakistan's or India's doctrine. Both are needed.





Again, I just gave you examples. The things your own users were inducted, werent the best, certainly not comparable to outside standards. But they were inducted, improved on, etc. because all four of the players were involved in the induction and improved of the rifle, etc.

They certainly wont change requirements midway to suit other rifles completely.

That's right, it all starts from a small step. That's how China started, the weapons were not the best, but you make it, use it, improve it, and develop something from it. There is no point buying the best latest Rafale if you don't absorb the tech. Buying the best weapon had never been the Chinese intention, it was about absorbing the technology. I am never proud when someone tells me we have the S-400 or an AKULA..

 

[cnleio]

Stop silly argument, anyways the China 155 mm AH-4 howitzer will export to Foreign Army ... soon we will see the news.

 

[Godman]

Whats the price?

 

[cnleio]

Whats the price?

News didn't say it ... i believe AH4 must cheaper than price of M777.

 

[lcloo]

I remember they showed in 2014 Zhuhai airshow that Y-9 medium transport aircraft can air lift this gun.

And with Y-20 in service, this gun is suitable for quick army reaction forces and airforce's airborne paratroopers. It can be deployed in large numbers quickly in front line using Y-9 and Y-20 (to front line airfield) and heavy helicopters (to fire base).

 

[Three_Kingdoms]

Type " 155mm Field Howitzer 77B. Public demonstration of Bofors guns by Indian Army. " Then watch the video to see if there is anything that we can learn from the Indian Army

 

[Allah Akbar]

Bangladesh should place an order asap.

AH4 is for export.

The PLA version is lighter with higher mobility

现场工作人员介绍，目前，用于外贸的AH-4型超轻型榴弹炮已经研制定型，而在其基础上研制的自用型也已经是箭在弦上。自用型火炮的重量将比外贸型更轻、机动性更好。

除此之外，工作人员还向我们透露了一个震惊的消息：我国正在全力研制另一款新型轮式自行火炮，计划将运用AH-4的减重技术和火炮技术。这种新型轮式自行火炮使用6轮底盘，搭载155毫米榴弹炮，可以进行空降作战，并在地面快速机动，战斗全重则计划“控制在10吨以内”！

http://www.guancha.cn/shi-yang/2014_11_14_286283.shtml



A six-wheeled self-propelled gun, adopting some of the technologies used in the AH4 and weighing UNDER 10 tons, is being developed.

 

[jhungary]

I remember they showed in 2014 Zhuhai airshow that Y-9 medium transport aircraft can air lift this gun.

And with Y-20 in service, this gun is suitable for quick army reaction forces and airforce's airborne paratroopers. It can be deployed in large numbers quickly in front line using Y-9 and Y-20 (to front line airfield) and heavy helicopters (to fire base).

You are confusing between Airdrop and Airlift. You can airlift the gun as a whole with a heavy lift helicopter, or stow it in a Transport as a cargo. It can be deploy (or in the field, we called Emplace) and redeploy (in the field, we called displace) within minutes.

Airdropable would means the gun would be taken a part in a modular system, where a whole artillery piece cannot be airdrop or it will damage the gun sight, optics, fir computer (if it has one) and the beechblocks mechanism, from the parts, you rebuild the howitzer from parts and then you can deploy and redeploy the artillery pieces.

You have to be airdropable to be able to use with airborne troops, and to be airdropable, the system must be a modular system, and from the description given out by Norinco, the AH-4 piece are made of 2 parts, the main gun and saddle, suggest the piece is not modular and not airdropable.

It can be used to airlift, meaning you can forward deploy it via helicopter as a whole piece, which mean you can use them in assault role, not airborne role.

 

[lcloo]

You are confusing between Airdrop and Airlift. You can airlift the gun as a whole with a heavy lift helicopter, or stow it in a Transport as a cargo. It can be deploy (or in the field, we called Emplace) and redeploy (in the field, we called displace) within minutes.

.

Where on Earth did I ever used the word "Airdrop" in my post???????

 

[jhungary]

Where on Earth did I ever used the word "Airdrop" in my post???????

I didn't say you said "Airdrop" you said it could be used with, or in your own word, suitable for Airborne Troop, I said no, because it was not airdropable. Thisis what you said

I remember they showed in 2014 Zhuhai airshow that Y-9 medium transport aircraft can air lift this gun.

And with Y-20 in service, this gun is suitable for quick army reaction forces and airforce's airborne paratroopers. It can be deployed in large numbers quickly in front line using Y-9 and Y-20 (to front line airfield) and heavy helicopters (to fire base).

It can be airlifted, so it could be used in an asssault position. It cannot be airdrop as it is not modular, hence it cannot be use by airborne troop. And Airlift is not Airdrop

and this is what I said

You are confusing between Airdrop and Airlift. You can airlift the gun as a whole with a heavy lift helicopter, or stow it in a Transport as a cargo. It can be deploy (or in the field, we called Emplace) and redeploy (in the field, we called displace) within minutes.

Airdropable would means the gun would be taken a part in a modular system, where a whole artillery piece cannot be airdrop or it will damage the gun sight, optics, fir computer (if it has one) and the beechblocks mechanism, from the parts, you rebuild the howitzer from parts and then you can deploy and redeploy the artillery pieces.

You have to be airdropable to be able to use with airborne troops, and to be airdropable, the system must be a modular system, and from the description given out by Norinco, the AH-4 piece are made of 2 parts, the main gun and saddle, suggest the piece is not modular and not airdropable.

It can be used to airlift, meaning you can forward deploy it via helicopter as a whole piece, which mean you can use them in assault role, not airborne role.[/QUOTE]

 

[pzfz]

Pretty sure AH-4 has already won a tender from an unspecified GCC country. A country that would have no problems with being able to afford M777.