China completes development of 155 mm AH4 howitzer

[Beast]

I hope you guys can keep on thinking this way. There is nothing advanced about howitzers, first try building one yourself and learn. Next import and copy and learn, then improve. Don't jump before you can run, and don't run before you can crawl. Jai Hind!

You can see this pattern repeating in India.

They can't, their tech and industries is still not good enough to do such absorption. Then when they can't, They will come up with excuse of BS reason like respecting IP and they are higher caste and never resort to copy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3466117.stm

The Indian has been claiming they have license build AL-31FP but until now still can't build a proper working modern turbofan. More or less tell you the so called license production is not exactly what most think. The most sensitive and critical parts still need to be import and tools tech and knowledge are not allowed to pass over to Indians. ToT are not some magic solution.

The fact you see China is able to produce a similar or better product after TOT is mainly thru China own knowledge and industry strength to master completely the product before producing a similar or better one. Not becos Russian really transfer every know how to you.

Same as American, French , British, Israel or even Chinese. The Pakistanis until now still need to import critical parts of aircraft and radar for JF-17 @Water Car Engineer

 

[Han Patriot]

They can't, their tech and industries is still not good enough to do such absorption. Then when they can't, They will come up with excuse of BS reason like respecting IP and they are higher caste and never resort to copy.

The Indian has been claiming they have license build AL-31FP but until now still can't build a proper working modern turbofan. More or less tell you the so called license production is not exactly what most think. The most sensitive and critical parts still need to be import and tools tech and knowledge are not allowed to pass over to Indians. ToT are not some magic solution.

The fact you see China is able to produce a similar or better product after TOT is mainly thru China own knowledge and industry strength to master completely the product before producing a similar or better one. Not becos Russian really transfer every know how to you.

Same as American, French , British, Israel or even Chinese. The Pakistanis until now still need to import critical parts of aircraft and radar for JF-17 @Water Car Engineer

That's true, the point is even reverse engineering require technical skills to understand the underlying technology. I was laughing my as* off when their indigenous warship had to use imported steel. I was like come on, the most basic stuff is steel, if you ever hear China claim to have an indigenous ship using imported steel, people would riot and torch down the PLAN base. Jus kidding...

 

[Water Car Engineer]

That's true, the point is even reverse engineering require technical skills to understand the underlying technology. I was laughing my as* off when their indigenous warship had to use imported steel. I was like come on, the most basic stuff is steel, if you ever hear China claim to have an indigenous ship using imported steel, people would riot and torch down the PLAN base. Jus kidding...

That's old news. Shipgrade steel was made because there was a ban on the export to India.

several tons worth is supplied already.

They can't, their tech and industries is still not good enough to do such absorption. Then when they can't, They will come up with excuse of BS reason like respecting IP and they are higher caste and never resort to copy.

Well, that's false. There are two artillery right now based on models from outside. Both automatic, electronic, and up-calibered from the models they were based from.

Dhanush 45 and 52 cal - from the manual 39 cal bofors.

Bharat 52 - based on GC-45 howitzer, which Bharat Forge bought out the company producing them

And a completely new design in development from DRDO and private sector

 

[Akasa]

Aside from the AH4, Norinco is also offering two additional towed howitzers for export.

AH-1 (12000 kg with auxiliary power unit, 9800 kg without):

AH-2:

 

[Han Patriot]

That's old news. Shipgrade steel was made because there was a ban on the export to India.



several tons worth is supplied already.




Well, that's false. There are two artillery right now based on models from outside. Both automatic, electronic, and up-calibered from the models they were based from.



Dhanush 45 and 52 cal - from the manual 39 cal bofors.



Bharat 52 - based on GC-45 howitzer, which Bharat Forge bought out the company producing them




And a completely new design in development from DRDO and private sector

Bhai,

LOL, this is the typical Indian face saving tactic... let me ask you one question, how many of those 2 howitzers are in service? And since when? From wikipedia, the favourite Indian ref source, NONE ARE IN SERVICE.

So before 2015, ALL INDIAN HOWITZERS WERE IMPORTED. Your Dhanush is a copy of the 1980s bofors gun, heavy and inefficient, that's why you are ordering roughly 1 billion worth of M777.

As for your so called local steel, care to tell me when was the first time it was used? The steel was forced upon Kolkata class when the last few batches were stopped due to payment issues in Russia. The question is this, if you could make a 'proper' ship grade steel, why import in the first place? Why only when the import source was terminated, you start to desperately use it? Coincidence? Or maybe you had to 'test' it? Trial use it?

So before that, all Indian ships were built out of imported steel, that my friend is a complete disgrace.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

They can't, their tech and industries is still not good enough to do such absorption. Then when they can't, They will come up with excuse of BS reason like respecting IP and they are higher caste and never resort to copy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3466117.stm

The Indian has been claiming they have license build AL-31FP but until now still can't build a proper working modern turbofan. More or less tell you the so called license production is not exactly what most think. The most sensitive and critical parts still need to be import and tools tech and knowledge are not allowed to pass over to Indians. ToT are not some magic solution.

The fact you see China is able to produce a similar or better product after TOT is mainly thru China own knowledge and industry strength to master completely the product before producing a similar or better one. Not becos Russian really transfer every know how to you.

Same as American, French , British, Israel or even Chinese. The Pakistanis until now still need to import critical parts of aircraft and radar for JF-17 @Water Car Engineer

Because for us it was a learning curve ... SM,K-8s and JF created an aviation industry in Pak..without these projects we would be no where.. The important thing is that we keep learning and developing.. Or one might end up like your neighbours.

Due to these projects today we are building an aeoruntical city,universities and would benefit us in the long run..
One should learn to crawl instead of trying to jump and ending up wounding oneself.

China has been our friend and we have learnt a lot of the partnership.

In the 60s we built a basic assembly plant for tanks .. Later started production under ToT and improvisation of those tanks.. And today we are building our own tanks,APCs,IFVs etc.

In the 80s we built PAC today we are building trainers,AJTs and Fighters..

It's all about the ability to absorb technology>customisation sand next step designing your own stuff.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Bhai,

LOL, this is the typical Indian face saving tactic... let me ask you one question, how many of those 2 howitzers are in service? And since when? From wikipedia, the favourite Indian ref source, NONE ARE IN SERVICE.

Dhanush 45 are in production and in service. What does that have to do with the industry? The IA have been trying to induct something since 1999, but they themself have been doing nothing about it. Dhanush was the first artillery bought since the bofors in the 80s. This is a political problem, hardly a industry one. Bharat 52 is ready to be in service, the gun in ready, they're trialing. That's on them.

So before 2015, ALL INDIAN HOWITZERS WERE IMPORTED. Your Dhanush is a copy of the 1980s bofors gun, heavy and inefficient, that's why you are ordering roughly 1 billion worth of M777.

It's not inefficient for the IA, they love the system. Who cares if it's an upgrade? Many of your own artillery pieces has lineage to the GC45 artillery. Many foreign artillery pieces have lineage going back to something else. Dhanush is up calibered, has mechanical, and eletronic upgrades. None of the the original bofors had.

as the first time it was used? The steel was forced upon Kolkata class when the last few batches were stopped due to payment issues in Russia. The question is this, if you could make a 'proper' ship grade steel, why import in the first place? Why only when the import source was terminated, you start to desperately use it? Coincidence? Or maybe you had to 'test' it? Trial use it?

So before that, all Indian ships were built out of imported steel, that my friend is a complete disgrace.

India can make proper anything, but it's users choice to import, instead of working with the industry. When they find out they cant make warships, is when they go to develop the material. The ban was a great thing.

You guys talk like you know so much about India, but hardly know anything,

 

[Beidou2020]

@cnleio @Beast @cirr

Does China have an equivalent of the M982 Excalibur guided artillery shell?

 

[Han Patriot]

Dhanush 45 are in production and in service. What does that have to do with the industry? The IA have been trying to induct something since 1999, but they themself have been doing nothing about it. Dhanush was the first artillery bought since the bofors in the 80s. This is a political problem, hardly a industry one. Bharat 52 is ready to be in service, the gun in ready, they're trialing. That's on them.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-over-dhanush-guns-to-army/article8862254.ece
So handed over in July 2016 for trials means it's in service? You do know we are still in the month of July? My statement is still correct, YOU STILL DO NOT HAVE A GUN IN SERVICE!!!

It's not inefficient for the IA, they love the system. Who cares if it's an upgrade? Many of your own artillery pieces has lineage to the GC45 artillery. Many foreign artillery pieces have lineage going back to something else. Dhanush is up calibered, has mechanical, and eletronic upgrades. None of the the original bofors had.

Good, love that heavy 80s howitzer. I just love this kinda mentality. Always arguing, never admit any mistake and then boast.

India can make proper anything, but it's users choice to import, instead of working with the industry. When they find out they cant make warships, is when they go to develop the material. The ban was a great thing.

You guys talk like you know so much about India, but hardly know anything,

LOL. I rest my case. My advice, start by building a decent rifle. By the way, I haven't even got into whether the above mentioned 'indigenous' design are really indigenous or you had to import the gun barrel 'special' steel too? And the bolts and nuts like in the case of the Arjun?

https://prajaadhinshasan.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/imported-weapons-of-india/

Damn, you even import the fire control for a tank.......I really admire the super smart IIT Indian geniuses.

 

[cirr]

@cnleio @Beast @cirr

Does China have an equivalent of the M982 Excalibur guided artillery shell?

WS-35

 

[Beidou2020]

WS-35

Thanks

 

[cnleio]

@cnleio @Beast @cirr

Does China have an equivalent of the M982 Excalibur guided artillery shell?

GP155 and GP155A lazer guided artillery shell, GP155G terminal sensing ammunition (TSA) shell

 

[cnleio]

China GP-1 155mm shell, As many as ur wish for the enemy ~!

@Beidou2020 Do u like them ?!

 

[Water Car Engineer]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-over-dhanush-guns-to-army/article8862254.ece
So handed over in July 2016 for trials means it's in service? You do know we are still in the month of July? My statement is still correct, YOU STILL DO NOT HAVE A GUN IN SERVICE!!!

Sorry, this is the last of the trials, but it'll basically be cleared for bulk production after.

Good, love that heavy 80s howitzer. I just love this kinda mentality. Always arguing, never admit any mistake and then boast.

Right, because 80s artillery pieces mostly had thermal sights, muzzle velocity radar, auto laying, INS, gun control computer, etc. Okay.

I dont know what you're on about heavy, it's a towed artillery system. They're all going to be heavy.

LOL. I rest my case. My advice, start by building a decent rifle. By the way, I haven't even got into whether the above mentioned 'indigenous' design are really indigenous or you had to import the gun barrel 'special' steel too? And the bolts and nuts like in the case of the Arjun?

They are making a rifle -

But if the user keeps changing the requirements, again, and again, then imports, what is the point?

China wouldnt produce 80% of the things if the user, industry, and production agency wasnt working in tone. And also the forced arms ban as well.

And the fire control computer for Arjun is being made by TATA.

Some subsystems like the ballistic computer for the T90 too.

 

[nang2]

This bickering between Indian and Chinese begins to look silly.