China closes website after reform call

[ahfatzia]

^^^ You nailed it, Buddy! "Hypocritical b*stards" is the best description for the above two phonies.

 

[Kolaps]

What is your definition of 'Chinese Civilization' that is so different from Chinese culture today?

In modern China, Chinese culture and tradition are being oppressed and defamed. Both during KMT era and Communist era, even up to today. You ask any mainland Chinese on the street about Confucius teaching, like what is the core of the teaching, how you Chinese people practicing it in everyday life, etc.......I doubt they can answer any of these questions.

You know about Confucius Institute established by mainland Chine government worldwide. That is a big BS!

 

[grandmaster]

In modern China, Chinese culture and tradition are being oppressed and defamed. Both during KMT era and Communist era, even up to today. You ask any mainland Chinese on the street about Confucius teaching, like what is the core of the teaching, how you Chinese people practicing it in everyday life, etc.......I doubt they can answer any of these questions.

You know about Confucius Institute established by mainland Chine government worldwide. That is a big BS!

come on! what you know about commie is just via american views! neither communism nor capitalism is the right way to go. the right way to go is to find the good leaders! chinese people say the winner is king and the loser is enemy. after american became hegemonist, capitalism is the king! but i would wait until like 2050 to see which one is right or wrong.

 

[terranMarine]

Ultimately each country national security will decide how much freedom is given to the nation. Assange's work threatened the US security and they decided to nab him to shut him up. If Wikileaks were China centric I doubt the US would give a toss about what he published.

China is a communist country at the end of the day and of course the freedom it permits to citizens are lower than that of a democratic nation, but is it to a level where people in China give a damn I doubt so. Only a bunch of hypocritical b*stards would come and point fingers and compare it against their own country who is also trying to hide certain truths from the world.

I vividly remember the video of the cameraman getting gunned down by mistake from the helicopter which was getting shushed up. Where is freedom of speech then, god know how many more incidences and worse have been going on we have no clue about.

My pity goes out to the innocent families getting butchered everyday by a bunch of yankee doodles screaming viva la freedom

China closing a website making the news. Good lord, save us all

China should just take Assange under wing and fund his website, push this freedom of speech BS to the next level and watch the hypocrites BURN!

Not just that, did you see Barack shedding some tears for the gunned down victims in Newton? I seriously doubt US will broadcast how many Pakistani innocent lives are bombed by drones or the GI raping Iraqi women. If it wasn't for wikileaks or other whistle blowers we would never have known what they did to the prisoners with their torture. Freedom of speech? Democracy? Everybody are equal? Human rights? Sure ..........

 

[Kolaps]

come on! what you know about commie is just via american views! neither communism nor capitalism is the right way to go. the right way to go is to find the good leaders! chinese people say the winner is king and the loser is enemy. after american became hegemonist, capitalism is the king! but i would wait until like 2050 to see which one is right or wrong.

No, that is not the reason. It's totally being suppressed and defamed like it's a great dangerous disease. Total infidel and heretic.

Even after the whole world shocked about Yueyue case, a toddler crushed by car twice in the cold blooded society. This evil communist government still don't have conscience and realize their mistake.

I just want to say, this communist government worse than Qing dynasty. It's time for second Boxer Uprising to kick the evil foreign communism out from China!

 

[JohnyD]

lol @ CCP...good luck to Chinese ppl

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Even after the whole world shocked about Yueyue case, a toddler crushed by car twice in the cold blooded society.

LOLWUT? Ever read Lu Xun's 《medicine》? 看过鲁迅的《药》没？这可是高中必读的课文啊。

Yue Yue's case reflects traditional culture I'm afraid.

This is MODERN Chinese culture at work in Beijing:

Commuters in China save life of man who fell on train tracks by alerting driver | Mail Online

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

The present CCP is different from the beginnings when CCP was still in the early stage. How long has Taiwan been stagnant? Look at China now, it's expanding and developing fast. There's no real communism in today's China. Mao's policies and the communism did wreck China quite a lot but as you can see now it's going in the right direction. Blood brothers should reunite and we can only benefit from it.

Yes, there is no communists in china now but there is a group of people who wants to keep their interests in the name of communism.

 

[Kolaps]

LOLWUT? Ever read Lu Xun's 《medicine》? 看过鲁迅的《药》没？这可是高中必读的课文啊。

Yue Yue's case reflects traditional culture at work and exactly as written by ROC author Lu Xun. Guangdong is the most Confucian and traditional of all provinces.

This is MODERN Chinese culture at work in Beijing (NORTH):

Commuters in China save life of man who fell on train tracks by alerting driver | Mail Online

Did you know why northern warlords reject to incorporate with the ROC at the south?

Both the ROC and PRC have been hijacked and betrayed 義和團運動 and 辛亥革命!!! You must learn deeper, to understand the real meaning of our struggle. But instead we were betrayed, forced to accept foreign idea and twisted to commit to wipe out our culture and tradition. Cultural Revolution was at the height of the event.

魯迅的藥 is the ROC propaganda, just like they wrote 施氏食獅史 to remove 漢字. Thanks goodness, it didn't happen.

But of course, not all Confucius teaching is suitable in the modern era. Learn from Japan, it's a very modern country, but at the same time very traditional too. People around the world respect and fascinated by Japanese traditional culture, at the same time hugely impressed by their modernity, if not, futuristic. There's no such thing, that to became modern, we should reject everything of our past, even the good one. You are forget, we all always proud with Chinese civilization. There will be no modern success of East Asian countries, that we all proud of, without our past of Confucianism.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Did you know why northern warlords reject to incorporate with the ROC at the south?

Both the ROC and PRC have been hijacked and betrayed 義和團運動 and 辛亥革命!!! You must learn deeper, to understand the real meaning of our struggle. But instead we were betrayed, forced to accept foreign idea and twisted to commit to wipe out our culture and tradition. Cultural Revolution was at the height of the event.

魯迅的藥 is the ROC propaganda, just like they wrote 施氏食獅史 to remove 漢字. Thanks goodness, it didn't happen.

But of course, not all Confucius teaching is suitable in the modern era. Learn from Japan, it's a very modern country, but at the same time very traditional too. People around the world respect and fascinated by Japanese traditional culture, at the same time hugely impressed by their modernity, if not, futuristic. There's no such thing, that to became modern, we should reject everything of our past, even the good one. You are forget, we all always proud with Chinese civilization. There will be no modern success of East Asian countries, that we all proud of, without our past of Confucianism.

Too bad the pure Chinese Confucianism Civilization has been defeated by the Western Civilization since 1840. Sad, but it is the truth.

The Qing Dynasty was very corrupt and incompetent, but under the Ming Dynasty, it wouldn't be much better, since Ming Dynasty themselves were pretty stupid with that Haijin policy to forbid any maritime travel and allow the West to technologically catch up China.

Not saying that the nature of Confucianism is bad and should be completely rejected, but the pure 100% Confucianism won't work in the modern society, just like the pure Communism is also hard to be achieved.

Nothing of borrowing the idea from the Jewish-invented Communism as long as it is good for us, the Indo-European Europe has persecuted the Jews over years, yet still adopted their Judeo-Christianity religion, because it is good to bring the stability in Europe.

CPC has done far more good than bad, without them, China has no chance to become industrialized.

 

[Sonyuke_Songpaisan]

Too bad the pure Chinese Confucianism Civilization has been defeated by the Western Civilization since 1840. Sad, but it is the truth.

.

满清非中国。满清是飞奔在历史逆车道的特快列车！满清和现在的CCP差不多，都是要灭绝中国文化。The real chinese dynasties are all strong and prosperous.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

OK. You can go learn from Japan and stagnate another 20 years. We will keep modifying our own culture in our own way.

I do not deny that Confucianism has made many contributions. That would be foolish to turn our back on thousands of years of achievement. However, it had many problems (请参考民国时期的名著）, and those problems have been fixed (mostly) in many places except a few holdouts. I'm sure they'll come around.

 

[gambit]

Yes, there is no communists in china now but there is a group of people who wants to keep their interests in the name of communism.

China is essentially a Leninism/Stalinism country.

Marxism is an ideology, chiefly, of communism. Leninism/Stalinism is about the supremacy of a party, which usually imply the communist party. Supremacy of the party, not the government because in any country, there must be only one central government. With contestant governments, there is a civil war.

Every country need a moral foundation, be it communism or democracy/capitalism or a monarchy or theological, in order to justify its existence to the people. Since communism has proven to be an utter failure but the current Chinese leadership is still largely composed of those who came from that failure and too intellectually dishonest to admit it and publicly abandon it, the label 'Communist' is nothing more than a thin moral facade for public face. The facade is thinner than the paper Marx used to write his drivel. China's leadership is essentially two-faced, it put on the Mao suit and spout Marxism when convenient at official functions that require the exposition of Marxism, then it put on the Western style business garb and spout capitalist principles, those that contradict Marx, to the world also when convenient.

In other words, China's current leadership is IDEOLOGICALLY amoral. Not immoral because the word 'immoral' implies an opposition to a set of moral standards. The word 'amoral' simply means no moral standards at all, only the adoption of some moral standards in order to achieve a goal. Amorality is usually used to describe a person who is either not yet educated/matured enough to understand set of moral standards or to describe someone who is aware but does not care. Babies are amoral beings, so are psychopaths.

But POLITICALLY speaking, China's current leadership is very moral -- the supremacy of the communist party over any other political challenges. China's currently leadership cannot call itself 'The Party' because it would begs the question of: Party of what? So in order to justify its existence for the people, for the Chinese and foreigners, the label 'Communist' must be included because everyone expects a label. It cannot call itself 'The Confucius Party' or 'Liberal Democratic Party' or 'Republican Party' or 'Party of Love and Sex'. Marxism was adopted as the official moral guide for China by Mao and the realization of that failure is still fairly fresh in the leadership's psyche. The supremacy of the Communist Party, no matter how thin a veneer of Marxism, is the only thing China's leadership have left.

 

[Kolaps]

Too bad the pure Chinese Confucianism Civilization has been defeated by the Western Civilization since 1840. Sad, but it is the truth.

The Qing Dynasty was very corrupt and incompetent, but under the Ming Dynasty, it wouldn't be much better, since Ming Dynasty themselves were pretty stupid with that Haijin policy to forbid any maritime travel and allow the West to technologically catch up China.

Not saying that the nature of Confucianism is bad and should be completely rejected, but the pure 100% Confucianism won't work in the modern society, just like the pure Communism is also hard to be achieved.

Nothing of borrowing the idea from the Jewish-invented Communism as long as it is good for us, the Indo-European Europe has persecuted the Jews over years, yet still adopted their Judeo-Christianity religion, because it is good to bring the stability in Europe.

CPC has done far more good than bad, without them, China has no chance to become industrialized.

That is not true.

European borrowed Confucianism and most parts of Chinese civilization. If you trace the origin of many modern ideas, most of them came from China. I don't want to be a snobbish in foreign forum, you just need to do some research by yourself.


Ming Dynasty is corrupt, because the officials salary was so little. The private sector extremely prosperous, multiple times bigger than Song Dynasty, but the government always under budget. Local officials should rise money by themselves to fund many public projects. That was the origin of Ming corruption culture came from.

Yes, that was Ming biggest mistake. Unlike Europe, they didn't travel around the world to bring foreign technologies, ideas and goods. But during the end of the Ming, China was still world most technological advanced.


There's nothing wrong borrowing communism, as many of parts of communism resemble Confucianism, so does many other things. But for the same thing of ideas, I still prefer to choose our own Chinese culture and tradition over the foreign things. We will be still open minded society, but with Chinese own culture and tradition as the core, while foreign ideas are just complement.

It's OK for adopting foreign religion and destroying your own native religion....said foreign missionary. They praise and give you a lot of compliments for it. Now, what if we switch the position. We send our beloved Falun Gong missionary to Vatican, and said abandon your Christianity and embrace Falun Dafa, because Mahdi and reborn Jesus are here....


The nature of Confucianism is not bad. You are a victim of propaganda. From where do you think the modern human rights, people government, civil service, socialism, public welfare, modern education, etc, came from? These things are the most popular right now.


No doubt, CCP has done a lot of good things to China today. I admit Mao Zedong himself was necessary to united, bring stability and cleaned up China from imperialism, which is Chiang Kai-Shek failed. And thanks goodness too, to Deng Xiaobing who liberated China from communism in peaceful way, organized the government structure, arranged the economy foundation, so China can have an economy and development progress like now.

But all of these, all the craziness and stupidity for 150 years, already bring us all here. This is the era, where China is strong enough and stable, but culturally ideologically empty. Many people gained confident and seek for their cultural identity, as some people trying to revive Confucianism, Hanfu, etc, to give them place in modern China. There's no time as good as today, to restore what China should be.

 

[ahfatzia]

BEIJING - Few people know what Confucius is - not who, but what. The ancient teacher is known by many names; he's King Kung, Master Kong or just K'ung Fu-tzu. But unlike the biblical Saint Nicholas, alias Santa Claus, Confucius isn't a Christian saint but a Chinese sage; more correctly, Confucius is a shengren (圣&#20154*.

The shengren of Confucianism (there are hundreds of them) - like the buddhas of Buddhism - are entirely un-European. They cultivate the ideal personality and become the highest members n the family-based Chinese value tradition; sagacious human beings who have the highest moral standards, called de, who apply the principles of ren, li, yi, zhi and xin, and connect between all the people as if they were, metaphorically speaking, one big family.

Yet, even in China, there are only a handful of scholars who know about " shengren" That's because this word and concept have been carefully removed from the history of thought. To the Western missionaries in the 17th century and thereafter, Confucius was erroneously believed to idolize the Christian God, and thus ought to be a true "saint", just like, say, our Western Saint Jerome or Saint Benedict.

In 1688, Randal Taylor wrote that "the origin of the CHINESE nation was not long after the Flood ... This being so, it must necessarily follow that the first inhabitants of CHINA had likewise the true knowledge of GOD and of the creation of the world." This was the beginning of the seemingly total Christianization of China. And, today, yes, Beijing lives in the year (of our Lord, Jesus Christ) 2012 and China celebrates a Christmas. In contrast, who in Europe knows, for example, that this year is also the 2,563rd anniversary of the birth of Confucius?

How could China lose its shengren to Western cultural imperialism? The Chinese term "sheng" appears 260 times in the Huainanzi, 48 times in Mengzi, 132 times in the Chun Qiu Fan Lu, 157 times in Xunzi, 33 times in Laozi, 149 times in Zhuangzi, 81 times in the He Guang Zi, 40 times in the Yi Qing, 8 times in the Lun Yu, and 185 times in The Records of the Grand Historian. Yet, despite its omnipresence, Western scholars obviously never read those books nor used that term. Why?

As the historian Howard Zinn once wrote: "If something is omitted from history, you have no way of knowing it is omitted." Western efforts to distort China's originality by translation knew of no restraints: the British, the French, and the German philosophers, the theologicians and story-tellers, they all called K'ung Fu-tzu everything but by his true term; they called him, fashion-wise, a philosopher, a saint, a magus, a teacher, or a sage, whatever floated their theory at that time. Tens of thousands of other Chinese (and other foreign) key concepts were excluded from world history this way. In effect, translations made China drop out of the humanist project and made her look as if she had no originality at all.

Some scholars have argued with me that China must engage in a dialogue with the West - they mean "in the English language". To this I add, yes, but only if the Chinese bring their own terms to the table. Otherwise, the so-called dialogue with the West will always be a Western monologue.

In practice, this would mean to identify the untranslatables, and to promote them. Most writings of European "China experts" today are inadequate because they describe a China without Chinese terminologies.

Traditionally, European thinkers translated China at will, always according to their own cultural predicaments. For example "the sage/le sage" became today's preferred (neutral) translation of shengren only in Britain and France, but not so in Germany. The all-favored German word is the biblical "Heilige," meaning saint or holy man. The reason is simple: German language, in contrast to English and French, reserved the noun phrase of "sapientia" (a Latin term for wisdom) not for persons but for fairy tales and legends.

n addition, the German language is deeply Biblical. The first major German book in print was Luther's translation of the Bible. Unsurprisingly, the word "heilig," meaning holy, follows the Germans like a dark specter wherever they venture; that's why the works of Karl Guetzlaff and Richard Wilhelm, for example, read like Biblical bedtime stories. The German language, frankly speaking, is uniquely disqualified from translating the Chinese tradition, which is entirely non-Christian.

As long as Western China scholarship floats on misleading European terminology, the West isn't learning anything new from Asia. In this century, it will be necessary to depart from some erroneous Western translations. The East isn't just an appendix to the Western lingo; it has more to offer than the West could ever satisfactorily translate.

The key is to adopt Chinese terminologies, so that, one day, we may have something, anything really, to celebrate for being truly and faithfully Chinese. Amen.

Asia Times Online :: A Confucian Christmas in China


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