China captured 5 to 4 km of "indian territory" beyond Chinese claimed territory (Gulwam valley).

[Nilgiri]

Wow, all these personal attacks. Just because i criticized Lord Modi for once. I have defended him far more than I have criticised him on this forum but bhakts can't handle any criticism of Modi ji.

I repeat, letting such actions by China go unnoticed will hurt India in the long run. Modi needs to take a tougher stand and i have every right to criticize him as a citizen of this country. I don't need to stand for PM elections for that.

I don't expect gadha sitting in Canada to understand that.

I deleted the outburst.

I would never air this crap out here like this, whatever the PM in charge is...during an ongoing situation.

Its not a bhakt or sanghi or leftie libtard commie thing to do (in other instance) at all.

Have some basic sense and decency to what a PM and leadership has to handle this like and what their role is (and what its already been scoped out before to respond like, much well before particular leadership takes over)...and what the contexts of the countries and situations are.

You can whine and bitch all you want about Modi after something is done and dusted...when we actually have the facts of matter to analyse soundly.

Instead you running here, running your mouth off...coz some media title blabbed something and you feelz have to surface.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

I deleted the outburst. But seriously go F yourself.

I would never air this crap out here like this, whatever the PM in charge is...during an ongoing situation.

Its not a bhakt or sanghi or leftie libtard commie thing to do (in other instance) at all.

Have some basic sense and decency to what a PM and leadership has to handle this like and what their role is (and what its already been scoped out before to respond like, much well before particular leadership takes over)...and what the contexts of the countries and situations are.

You can whine and bitch all you want about Modi after something is done and dusted...when we actually have the facts of matter to analyse soundly.

Instead you running here, running your mouth off...coz some media title blabbed something and you feelz have to surface.

First of all stop talking like a child and speak like an adult. You can talk without using F words i am pretty certain. Calm down and relax. No need to get excited.

I am not talking of Modi's handling of this situation alone but in general with the handling of China. There are much smaller countries around China that challenge them in a bigger way for their aggression. Pakistan does that with India too. Why are we so pussified with China?

Look you have every right to disagree with my opinion, but calling it indecent is just childish. It is my opinion, disagree with it, give your counter and move on.

 

[Nilgiri]

I am not talking of Modi's handling of this situation alone but in general with the handling of China.

You will have to define what you even mean by that.

There are much smaller countries around China that challenge them in a bigger way for their aggression.

Like?

Pakistan does that with India too.

Context, history and basic geography matters a great deal. Apples and oranges situation.

Why are we so pussified with China?

Funny because I saw the exact same thing said by CPC trolls many a time "why are we so scared to take on India!!!" regarding doklam after they backed down and withdrew. Just like when they query why they "pussied" out in teaching Vietnam a lesson in 2014. Both instances they pushed for a huge deal in their fantasies and came up short....because simply the PLA and CCP leadership know better and wiser.

So simply asserting something doesnt make it so. Its just a perspective.

Big difference is they (CPC trolls and chinese citizens at large) have no recourse to address their govt as to challenge why.

Among the other big difference in the context and specific situation as I just mentioned.

but calling it indecent is just childish.

It is indecent...and also unwarranted. Thats my perspective.

 

[xeuss]

I deleted the outburst. But seriously go F yourself.

I would never air this crap out here like this, whatever the PM in charge is...during an ongoing situation.

Its not a bhakt or sanghi or leftie libtard commie thing to do (in other instance) at all.

Have some basic sense and decency to what a PM and leadership has to handle this like and what their role is (and what its already been scoped out before to respond like, much well before particular leadership takes over)...and what the contexts of the countries and situations are.

You can whine and bitch all you want about Modi after something is done and dusted...when we actually have the facts of matter to analyse soundly.

Instead you running here, running your mouth off...coz some media title blabbed something and you feelz have to surface.

The basic reason forums exists is so that people can air out their grievances and criticisms.

I really don't understand this view of yours that this is not the right time.

I am not talking of Modi's handling of this situation alone but in general with the handling of China. There are much smaller countries around China that challenge them in a bigger way for their aggression. Pakistan does that with India too. Why are we so pussified with China?

This would be the perfect time to reduce/cut trade with China. It is a trade deficit, so any reduction in trade would be beneficial for India's business.

 

[Nilgiri]

The basic reason forums exists is so that people can air out their grievances and criticisms.

I really don't understand this view of yours that this is not the right time.

There is literally no good stream of relevant info to say anything is being handled well or not well.

Exact same thing happened during Doklam....I always said wait for the conclusion...while people were clamouring that some massive war would happen....because all they got was the fumes of their fantasies and emotions to run on....as so called fog of war (tension/standoff in this case) enshrouded the actual area.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

It is indecent...and also unwarranted. Thats my perspective.[/QUOTE]

1. China's open support for Pakistan. Blocking India's efforts against Pakistan at the UN. FATF. Constant claims on our territory, constant skirmishes at the border like this one. Recent statement made by Nepal PM, we all know who is behind it all etc. Why are we afraid to hurt them on Hong Kong, Taiwan or Tibet ?

2. Australia ? Especially recently. Taiwan ? Even Hong Kong which is supposedly a part of China roars at them when the mainland Chinese piss them off.

 

[Brar]

And here i thaught it was a collective believe among PDF pakistanis that indian media alway makes drama out of nothing.

 

[Nilgiri]

1. China's open support for Pakistan.

And? There was the west's open support for Pakistan earlier (we maneuvered to teach them a real lesson back then?...or "balanced" and "pussied out"?). Don't they still engage in significant enough military and economic relations with Pakistan?...compared to what they do with say Iran? Does India enforce its will on even the gulf countries as a starter package compared to doing so with the west? Then you want to somehow move up the ladder to China from the onset lol.

Comes with the environment of how this region has shaped up. Onus is on you to grow and get bigger and tougher and stronger so no one makes pacts with those you seek to enforce some complete diktat of yours on. Otherwise rivals simply have ready source to foible you with. Thats part of the larger game....always was, always is, always will be.

Why are we afraid to hurt them on Hong Kong, Taiwan or Tibet ?

Its not "fear"...its called not worth it....given the hurt would not really be sustained to begin with (compared to likely damage received) thanks to decades of utter economic mismanagement by India in its own affairs...that India now will have to always balance in any relationship.

You have to set the red lines appropriately.

China does not directly engage in things (as a fundamental matter of their deep state policy) like Mumbai terror attacks or blatant armed terrorism movements within India....anywhere near the scale and intensity our western neighbour does.

2. Australia ? Especially recently. Taiwan ? Even Hong Kong which is supposedly a part of China roars at them when the mainland Chinese piss them off.

Don't make me laugh. Hong Kong? LOL. All of these are vastly different situations and scope to India.

None of them share situation of contested territory in a remote high alt area.....that too one with next to no civilians present (so it becomes whole different scope of engagement flexbility when its low intensity stuff...as compared to say kashmir vale).

I similarly did not severely criticize MMS admin handling of the DBO camp standoff...for the same reasons. You have some chips on the table, they have some of their chips on the table,...both hands are not great or relevant to much and you settle things without a larger chip shove.

 

[MayaBazar]

I repeat, letting such actions by China go unnoticed will hurt India in the long run. Modi needs to take a tougher stand

India is in helpless situation. We simply do not have the capability, capacity and resources to confront China.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

China does not directly engage in things (as a fundamental matter of their deep state policy) like Mumbai terror attacks or blatant armed terrorism movements within India....anywhere near the scale and intensity our western neighbour does.

Who enabled our neighbour to have the audacity for all this ? Who helped them with their nuclear umbrella ?

You can ignore these things all you want but China has hurt India far more from behind the scenes that we give them credit for. The world is watching India and so is China. Brushing such things under the carpet will make India look very weak and that does not bode well for our security, reputation or even economy.

 

[MayaBazar]

Brushing such things under the carpet will make India look very weak and that does not bode well for our security, reputation or even economy.

Trying to be strong when we are weak does not help either. Even US is having tough time confronting China, let alone India.

 

[Nilgiri]

Who enabled our neighbour to have the audacity for all this ? Who helped them with their nuclear umbrella ?

What was the US role in that too? 80s...soviet-afghan war....so called "looking the other way"...even outright suspicion of cooperation in some circles.

You want to really make china out as the full on 100%-culpable evil baddie here?

Is it because confronting this long established reality of India engaging with the US and West (back then) and even more so now is uncomfy?...so simply make it black and white situation so China can be scapegoated entirely (I say this as no fan of China esp CPC).

India has presented its case of what Pakistan is (that you now seem to form as the bedrock for your position w.r.t China) to the west. Have they pushed it to level they treat Iran and North Korea? Whats the hold up?

If not, why do we keep a huge economic and geopolitical relationship with the US and Europe? Why do they get a huge free pass, but China shouldn't in your book? What's the hold up in punishing them like you want for China?

If you make it a case of balance there, then you open up the case to be balanced with everyone. Then its just matter of perspectives and what to make mountains out of molehills, and what you leave to be molehills. Its that simple.

You can ignore these things all you want but China has hurt India far more from behind the scenes that we give them credit for. The world is watching India and so is China. Brushing such things under the carpet will make India look very weak and that does not bode well for our security, reputation or even economy.

OK so you are basically more of a China-hater than a Western-lover (or west gets free pass at least) regarding this stuff.

Keep repeating this. While Indian policy and reality (waaaaay past specific Modi admin) has sculpted the engagement window in another building from yours altogether. That's just too bad for you I suppose.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Trying to be strong when we are weak does not help either. Even US is having tough time confronting China, let alone India.

Fine then just let them walk all over us. Forget all about national pride and sentiments.

I am pretty sure radical China loving and West hating commies like @Nilgiri would enjoy that too. Talking about West in a thread which has nothing to do with it. The West doesn't enroach upon India's territory today the way China does or hurt India with unconditional support of Pakistan and Pakistan based terror groups the way China does.

 

[MayaBazar]

Fine then just let them walk all over us. Forget all about national pride and sentiments.

I am pretty sure radical China loving and West hating commies like @Nilgiri would enjoy that too. Talking about West in a thread which has nothing to do with it. The West doesn't enroach upon India's territory today the way China does or hurt India with unconditional support of Pakistan and Pakistan based terror groups the way China does.

There is nothing new in what China has been doing. They have been bullying us and propping up India's neighbors against India, since Independence.

 

[Nilgiri]

I am pretty sure radical China loving and West hating commies like @Nilgiri would enjoy that too.

atta boy. See @jamahir I'm a west hating commie in the end too.

Talking about West in a thread which has nothing to do with it.

Just giving you the context of why we deal with China and other large entities the way we do. You have to bring in other large entities to put a context to something correct?

The West doesn't enroach upon India's territory today the way China does or hurt India with unconditional support of Pakistan and Pakistan based terror groups the way China does.

"Encroaching"....

Yes the west has never had a history of colonizing and thoroughly subjugating India when given the chance....leaving a lot of the lingering reason why theres a Pakistan in first place....or why theres a psychologically damaged China (that now "bullies" as a result in son copy-paste learning from original papa kind of way) too given what they did there. How silly of me.

"Encroachment" though (in uninhabited remote area with history of this stuff), woah woah woah...China bad, China bad. Like the West would never have done that if it shared a border with India and we wipe the memory slate clean somehow of colonial period?

For argument sake, if "unconditional" support of something so bad Pakistan does (from China) is so bad....is "conditional" support from the West about half bad then?...or just a third as bad or 2/3rds as bad....or completely ok? How does it stack up in your filterexactly? Just wondering where you draw the line. Then should our exact proposed response be that same ratio?