China canceled $30 billion in debts by 35 African countries

[below_freezing]

Our loans to those african countries are low interest loans. If they cannot pay that back, why the hell do we continue to loan them???

BTW, a lot of those african countries have per-capital GDP higher than that of China meaning they are richer than China. Why the hell can they not pay???

These loans actually come straight back home to our companies.

We should not care too much about economic gain/loss in dealing with African countries. Money is a claim on value, not value. What we really want is access to resources and political support.

 

[ephone]

Those access to resources and political support are built on shaky ground. That is also one reason that China is continuously criticized not only by the west but also but quite a few local Africans.

To be honest, I do not care much about the west. However, the local Africans' criticism and sometimes violent struggle against the way Chinese companies do business there is really worrisome.

That will give the west plenty of opportunity to ally with the local Africans to make a hell for all Chinese there. Libya is just one example. In many other places, Nigeria, Congo, Sudan, Zimbabwe and etc, we have supported shaky leaders, offered shaky loans and etc, it makes investment in those countries really volatile.

As for about "not care too much about economic gain/loss in dealing with African countries", that must be a joke since you just have no idea what those Chinese companies struggle so hard in Africa for??? One word: PROFIT.

These loans actually come straight back home to our companies.

We should not care too much about economic gain/loss in dealing with African countries. Money is a claim on value, not value. What we really want is access to resources and political support.

 

[Martian2]

Those access to resources and political support are built on shaky ground. That is also one reason that China is continuously criticized not only by the west but also but quite a few local Africans.

To be honest, I do not care much about the west. However, the local Africans' criticism and sometimes violent struggle against the way Chinese companies do business there is really worrisome.

That will give the west plenty of opportunity to ally with the local Africans to make a hell for all Chinese there. Libya is just one example. In many other places, Nigeria, Congo, Sudan, Zimbabwe and etc, we have supported shaky leaders, offered shaky loans and etc, it makes investment in those countries really volatile.

As for about "not care too much about economic gain/loss in dealing with African countries", that must be a joke since you just have no idea what those Chinese companies struggle so hard in Africa for??? One word: PROFIT.

The Western countries have conducted business in Africa for a very long time. Why don't you suspect "the local Africans' criticism" is at the behest of their Western masters? The CIA has a huge budget for a reason. Even the wife (i.e. Valerie Plame) of an American diplomat was a CIA agent.

It is perfectly reasonable to believe that many so-called local NGOs are also Western-funded. To criticize China while wearing the veneer of a local face, it is simply the CIA at work.

 

[ephone]

I never say I did not suspect ""the local Africans' criticism" is at the behest of their Western masters".

You did not notice that I have written:
That will give the west plenty of opportunity to ally with the local Africans to make a hell for all Chinese there. ???

What the west is doing is one thing, What China is doing is the other. Both have their own incentives. Here I do not think west has any good record to show in the past Africa as well. However, that is not the point here. When we examine ourselves, we should clearly see that we have also done many deals in shaky grounds that give the west plenty of opportunity to sabotage China's economic interest there.

Giving the way such shaky deals are done, such sabotage actually is not that hard to be carried out. Even Africans still suspect their past colonial masters' intentions, however, our shaky businesses indeed give local Africans plenty of incentives to work with their past colonial masters as well.

The Western countries have conducted business in Africa for a very long time. Why don't you suspect "the local Africans' criticism" is at the behest of their Western masters? The CIA has a huge budget for a reason. Even the wife (i.e. Valerie Plame) of an American diplomat was a CIA agent.

It is perfectly reasonable to believe that many so-called local NGOs are also Western-funded. To criticize China while wearing the veneer of a local face, it is simply the CIA at work.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Those access to resources and political support are built on shaky ground. That is also one reason that China is continuously criticized not only by the west but also but quite a few local Africans.

To be honest, I do not care much about the west. However, the local Africans' criticism and sometimes violent struggle against the way Chinese companies do business there is really worrisome.

That will give the west plenty of opportunity to ally with the local Africans to make a hell for all Chinese there. Libya is just one example. In many other places, Nigeria, Congo, Sudan, Zimbabwe and etc, we have supported shaky leaders, offered shaky loans and etc, it makes investment in those countries really volatile.

As for about "not care too much about economic gain/loss in dealing with African countries", that must be a joke since you just have no idea what those Chinese companies struggle so hard in Africa for??? One word: PROFIT.

these loans are given out by arms of the Chinese government. The recipients of the loans, the African countries, are required by contract to use Chinese companies to build their infrastructure, which is the purpose of the loan.

The end result is the Chinese government lending to Chinese companies. That is why any profit made is just extra earnings. There is no way to go below breaking even.

These are not small companies that have to struggle. Most are giant state owned multinationals.

This is why Western "aid" to Africa has actually been a gigantic profit: all the "aid" that goes to Africa gets sent straight back to the West, with interest, to Western companies. Africans did not see one cent of this aid.

 

[ephone]

No way to go below breaking even???

What do you know about those companies at all???

You have not heard that Chinese companies lost billions in libya and egypt??? How about at yemen and syria???

How about even in saudi arabia???

There are big corporations there for sure. However, there are tens of thousands of smaller private companies from China working there as well.

Without knowing much, your comments are way more misleading.

As for the stupid forgiving of the loans to the richer african countries, only our idiotic top can do such stupid things. Just like in the mao's era, even we have tens of millions of people starved to death, China still sent free aids to those african countries. In the end, nobody appreciated China. We sent tons of aids to vietnam, north korea, algeria, albania and etc, in the end, those bastards just changed their moods to be anti-China.

these loans are given out by arms of the Chinese government. The recipients of the loans, the African countries, are required by contract to use Chinese companies to build their infrastructure, which is the purpose of the loan.

The end result is the Chinese government lending to Chinese companies. That is why any profit made is just extra earnings. There is no way to go below breaking even.

These are not small companies that have to struggle. Most are giant state owned multinationals.

This is why Western "aid" to Africa has actually been a gigantic profit: all the "aid" that goes to Africa gets sent straight back to the West, with interest, to Western companies. Africans did not see one cent of this aid.

 

[Fantasy]

No way to go below breaking even???

What do you know about those companies at all???

You have not heard that Chinese companies lost billions in libya and egypt??? How about at yemen and syria???

How about even in saudi arabia???

There are big corporations there for sure. However, there are tens of thousands of smaller private companies from China working there as well.

Without knowing much, your comments are way more misleading.

As for the stupid forgiving of the loans to the richer african countries, only our idiotic top can do such stupid things. Just like in the mao's era, even we have tens of millions of people starved to death, China still sent free aids to those african countries. In the end, nobody appreciated China. We sent tons of aids to vietnam, north korea, algeria, albania and etc, in the end, those bastards just changed their moods to be anti-China.

No one appreciated China because of attitudes from people like you. You are proving to be a closet anti progress idiot. Chinese workers were loved in Africa because they on the grassroot level are able to interact with the locals with humility and equality, it's a value thought very well during the height of Chinese cultural revolution, that we should always help the less fortunate than us. This is speaking from personal experience having lived in North Africa in the past that in certain countries, Chinese people are very well respected in the past, but nowadays, perception could be changing due to the quality of some of our SPOILED youths. Remember even countries like Africa cannot escape globalization, today almost everyone owns a mobile phone and more and more can access the internet.

On the debt obligation plan, it's called building for the future, it is through such charitable attitude that China is able to become the biggest trade partner of Africa today, it's not the first time China have canceled the debt of the developing trade partners and won't be the last. Unfortunately for the few vocal pompous Chinese who believe it's their god given right to be superior, such a poisoning attitude could damage the effort and relationships generations of the past have sacrificed to build up. It's the useless people with useless ego, making useless comments because they do not have to bear the consequences for their thoughts or responsibilities to their actions. There's a saying that if you have no idea what you are talking about don't say it, and no one will call you stupid!

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

No one appreciated China because of attitudes from people like you. You are proving to be a closet anti progress idiot. Chinese workers were loved in Africa because they on the grassroot level are able to interact with the locals with humility and equality, it's a value thought very well during the height of Chinese cultural revolution, that we should always help the less fortunate than us. This is speaking from personal experience having lived in North Africa in the past that in certain countries, Chinese people are very well respected in the past, but nowadays, perception could be changing due to the quality of some of our SPOILED youths. Remember even countries like Africa cannot escape globalization, today almost everyone owns a mobile phone and more and more can access the internet.

On the debt obligation plan, it's called building for the future, it is through such charitable attitude that China is able to become the biggest trade partner of Africa today, it's not the first time China have canceled the debt of the developing trade partners and won't be the last. Unfortunately for the few vocal pompous Chinese who believe it's their god given right to be superior, such a poisoning attitude could damage the effort and relationships generations of the past have sacrificed to build up. It's the useless people with useless ego, making useless comments because they do not have to bear the consequences for their thoughts or responsibilities to their actions. There's a saying that if you have no idea what you are talking about don't say it, and no one will call you stupid!

he is very defensive, pro-israeli, pro-US, conservative and militant sort of guy. you should not view him as a Chinese but as no different than a white American.

 

[True Lies]

well china is not loosing any opportunity. great to see china going places.

 

[Oldman1]

This is no different in terms of soft power. You don't canceled debt unless you get something in return. The Chinese are smart. And they speak softly but carry a big stick which we see in Asia.

 

[ephone]

With idiots like you, that is why China is not appreciated even though we have done so much to help those africans and other part of the world.

As for less fortunate, I have no idea what is your definition. At least by per capital GDP, China is the less fortunate one, not for quite a few african countries there. Since on per person GDP level, they are richer than CHINA. By your logic, maybe we should cancel the debt owed by those "less unfortunate" americans???

As for the debt part, where do you get your idiotic comments: "Unfortunately for the few vocal pompous Chinese who believe it's their god given right to be superior, such a poisoning attitude"???

When you are richer than China, at the same time you got the loan from China, why the heck do you need the poor China to cancel the debt for the richer one???

Where the heck do my comments show: "their god given right to be superior"???

As for future building with those african countries as well as mid-east countries, well, where is China's future with Egypt, Yemen, Libya, south Sudan and etc??? Even for our relationship with Congo, North Sudan, Zimbabwe, Nigeria and etc, I think we have to pray each day that the color of the sky in those countries won't change even though we know the change will be sooner or later, at least starting with that blood-sucking Mugabe at the first.

We have invested billions of dollars into those countries catering to the need of the top dictators there. So what is now? After those dictators are gone, how many oil, construction contracts are awarded to China companies? How about those past contracts??? How about China's loss due to those war conflicts there? Will China be compensated for that??? Will those new-in-power still honor those contracts??? I do not think so.

As for grassroot level, during Mao's era, when we sacrificed everything to build road for those african countries while tens of millions of our own fellow citizens starved to death, maybe there were certain appreciation from them. However, after leaders changed, their faces and attitudes towards China just have 180 degree turn, just like turning a page in the book. Look at what we have scarified towards Tanzania, Albania, Algeria, Libya, Vietnam, N.K. and etc. We do not even got respect from them, let alone appreciation.

Nowadays, what you have said is way more misleading. Chinese workers live together with Chinese workers and Chinese companies use Chinese workers as well. When we have to use local workers, there are constant conflicts between those local workers with our companies over wages, hours, working conditions and etc. In many cases, violence does break out and people die out of those.

Besides being an idiot, reading others' remarks carefully before offering those idiotic comments which have nothing to do with the earlier remarks.

No one appreciated China because of attitudes from people like you. You are proving to be a closet anti progress idiot. Chinese workers were loved in Africa because they on the grassroot level are able to interact with the locals with humility and equality, it's a value thought very well during the height of Chinese cultural revolution, that we should always help the less fortunate than us. This is speaking from personal experience having lived in North Africa in the past that in certain countries, Chinese people are very well respected in the past, but nowadays, perception could be changing due to the quality of some of our SPOILED youths. Remember even countries like Africa cannot escape globalization, today almost everyone owns a mobile phone and more and more can access the internet.

On the debt obligation plan, it's called building for the future, it is through such charitable attitude that China is able to become the biggest trade partner of Africa today, it's not the first time China have canceled the debt of the developing trade partners and won't be the last. Unfortunately for the few vocal pompous Chinese who believe it's their god given right to be superior, such a poisoning attitude could damage the effort and relationships generations of the past have sacrificed to build up. It's the useless people with useless ego, making useless comments because they do not have to bear the consequences for their thoughts or responsibilities to their actions. There's a saying that if you have no idea what you are talking about don't say it, and no one will call you stupid!

 

[ephone]

he is very defensive, pro-israeli, pro-US, conservative and militant sort of guy. you should not view him as a Chinese but as no different than a white American.

Again???

Another mud-slinging Smear campaign starts???

 

[Sasquatch]

Because we are the Communists, if we become rich, then everyone else also should become rich.

 

[ephone]

per capital level, they are richer than China. Do not forget the facts and check where China is currently ranked.

 

[Martian2]

per capital level, they are richer than China. Do not forget the facts and check where China is currently ranked.

Aside from traditionally rich South Africa and its splinter Namibia, I only see Botswana. Equatorial Guinea and Gabon are too small to really count. I want you to name all of the other African countries that you claim has a higher per-capita GDP than China.

There are 54 African countries. Only five have a higher per-capita GDP than China. That means the other 49 African countries have a lower per-capita GDP than China. In my original post, China forgave the $30 billion debt of the least-developed 35 African countries.

You have been repeating your lie that China has forgiven the debt of richer African countries on a per-capita basis in my thread ad nauseum. Now, I want you to prove your point or shut the hell up and stop polluting my thread.

In the following news article, we see that China forgave 50% of the rail debt owed by Zambia and Tanzania, both of which are poorer than China on a per-capita basis. Where are all those news articles of China forgiving the debt of richer per-capita African nations that you keep claiming?!

http://www.china.org.cn/world/2011-01/20/content_21783269.htm

"China to forgive half of [African] rail debt
Xinhua, January 20, 2011

China has signed a protocol with Zambia and Tanzania in Zambian capital city Lusaka, writing off 50 percent debts of Tanzania-Zambia Railway (TAZARA)

Chinese Deputy Commerce Minister Zhong Shan, Zambian Minister of Finance and National Planning Situmbeko Musokotwane and Deputy Minister of Finance and Economic Affairs of Tanzania Pereira Silima signed the protocol on Wednesday evening at Lusaka's Intercontinental Hotel.

Zhong said the decision made by the Chinese government to remit the partial debts is of the friendship between China and the African countries, and Chinese people wish to support Zambia and Tanzania in their capacity of development by seeing the railway getting off its burden of current operational difficulties.

Musokotwane praised the move by the Chinese side, saying the writing off of the partial debts will help boost trade among the three countries and revive the dream Zambia once had when the line was built."

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Reference: List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to the IMF, China's 2011 GDP per-capita is $5,184; which ranks #90 in the world and higher than practically all 54 African countries, except for South Africa and its splinter Namibia (which gained independence from South Africa in 1990), tiny Equatorial Guinea and Gabon, and Botswana.