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China blocked India's loan efforts at ADB

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You cannot expect you manufaturing industry to grow when power cuts stand for more that 12 hours a day.

Gabbar India's economy is based on agriculture, not factory based industry. Not only power supply, factory based industry needs many other subsidiary privileges without which factory cannot run. Do not compare India's environment with that of Manchester or Chicago. Yes factories can be indigenous.
 
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Please Gabbar do not exaggerate the importance of nuclear technology.
I am not trying to exaggerate anything, merely stating the facts.

Its important, but there are a number of other issues like public health, and education (literacy) which first need to be met.

Why do we need to pick which one is first, why not together. 30 years of isolation from nuclear technology is long enough.

Even if you say without nuclear technology bhukha nanga people will not be able to live for a single day, I would ask, how Pakistan has got the nuclear technology? How North Korea? How Iran though in developing stage?

China is supplying everyhing to Pakistan. What would Pakistan would do if China backed out? Why did Pakistan wanted same agreement from US when it getting the reactors from China? I bet you dont even know the difference between what Pakistan is getting right now and what India is going to get. And are you trying to compare India with NK and Iran? Comparing potatoes to Oranges?
 
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Gabbar India's economy is based on agriculture, not factory based industry.
I know that, where I am from agricultre is the base. That's why farmers cant even irriagte thier farms properly because of power cuts. Plus farming is not profitable anymore, millions of farmers under debt and comiting suicides. India needs to develope other industries. Tell what China's economy stands on? It's not agriculture anymore, it's manufacturing. Manufaturing mulplies jabs and create millions of other jobs based on that Industry. Manufacturing can lift millions of people out of poverty.

Not only power supply, factory based industry needs many other subsidiary privileges without which factory cannot run.

Put hundereds of workers in a steel factory and without power. Tell me how much production that factory will have.

Do not compare India's environment with that of Manchester or Chicago. Yes factories can be indigenous.

I dont think I did this comparision. Didn't understand your logic. We are not talking about type factories, we are talking technology to produce power from reactor with fuel garuteed.
 
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Why do we need to pick which one is first, why not together.

Thats what I was telling.

In this connection I would like to say, China for a long time has kept her isolated to get preparation. Sometimes, isolation is good.

China is supplying everyhing to Pakistan. What would Pakistan would do if China backed out? Why did Pakistan wanted same agreement from US when it getting the reactors from China? I bet you dont even know the difference between what Pakistan is getting right now and what India is going to get. And are you trying to compare India with NK and Iran? Comparing potatoes to Oranges?

That is your basic problem. You have not learned from your parents how to respect others. Why should you call others potatoes and consider yourself orange? In what sense? Are you universally an orange? Everything is relative Gabbar, read Einstein's Theory of Relativity. This sense of superiority will take India to the dustbin. Just a few years ago India was under colonial rule.

As the British boastfully used to say, the Sun never sets in the British Empire, Americans may now claim that. But when something begins, it actually begins to come to the end. Can someone claim that he will never die? Is that possible? Empires have gone. Colonies have gone. Now its time for nation states.

Anyway, time will tell where the deal takes India to. But as a matter of fact, some Asian nations do not want the US military presence in Asia. And if India tries to legitimize it by any deal, it will only create tension.
 
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Thanks for the link man.

Every nation needs nuclear energy. Not deal. Deal is another thing altogether. The term deal comes in terms of business affair. People of other nations are not idiots, they understand the importance of nuclear energy very well. Even a small nation like North Korea understands it and has desperately reopened her nuke project though in defence purposes.

You said US lifted the age-old ban for her own interests. Can you explain what interests US would have in dealing with the deal? Are those purposes will appear favorable for the huge Indian market potential or they are just favorable for the US citizens?

The powerful US Chamber of Commerce has come out in strong support of the India-US civil nuclear deal, saying a modest share of the potential $150 billion business could support 250,000 high-tech American jobs.

The US Government’s motives are several-fold.

1. After having invaded Iraq on a false excuse, this government is now deep in a quagmire. After spending one trillion dollars—this is Barack Obama’s estimate, which is less than half of some non-official estimate—and losing four thousand American lives, the US does not as yet know how to wriggle out of this situation. Not only is resentment growing in the USA but some European allies also are distancing themselves from US moves. If India, once the leader of the global non-aligned movement, could be pulled away from the G-77 countries (and also from its friendly ties with Russia) and drawn into the US orbit, it would be a great gain for the US. Administration, overshadowing all losses. For the last six decades the US Power Elite had been longing for this. The US has a habit of propping up certain forces in other countries to gain some advantage and creating conflict situations. It hopes to use naïve Indian personnel to pull the chestnut out of the fire for the US.

2. Export of armaments on a huge scale to India and becoming its arms supplier number one has been the USA’s objective. Now its soaring external debts have greatly whetted this appetite. The US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has openly said that commerce with India in military hardware is priority number one in the Pentagon’s thinking.

3. For the last thirty years, the US nuclear reactor industry has remained starved of orders. After the Three-Mile Island’s nuclear mishap, the American people have not allowed any reactor to be set up. As many as 37 earlier orders had also to be cancelled due to people’s resistance. The Chernobyl meltdown in Ukraine in 1986 has accentuated this sprit of resistance. But a State which wants to keep piling its nuclear arsenal needs to maintain the nuclear reactor industry. The burden has become unbearable even for the richest nation’s public treasury. Since India’s political class, led by the country’s nuclear mandarins, are desperately seeking to import uranium to improve the load factor of existing atomic power plants and is also planning to set up new nuclear reactors despite the disappointing results at home and abroad, it appeared as an excellent business opportunity to the US for bailing out its own reactor making industry at India’s cost. According to news reports, in response to the Bush Administration’s demand for preferential rights, the Government of India has assured the US Secretary of State in advance that India would purchase 10 reactors from the USA and has reserved two sites for their placement. Reportedly, some “strong letters of intent” to some commercial firms in the USA have also been given. When some American commentators, challenging presidential candidate McCain’s idea of setting up some nuclear plants are saying that nuclear energy is too extravagant even for an economy as rich as America’s, the Manamohan Singh Government, which faces a resource crunch to fight poverty, has largesses to set up twenty new nuclear reactors! None can blame America’s cupidity when there are Timons of Athens in India wishing to make India a nation of destitutes.

4. The USA is strong in its determination to disallow any but the five “nuclear-have” countries to develop nuclear muscle. Yet, India, Israel and Pakistan have developed nuclear weapons. Several others, too, are striving to possess similar capacities. Despite the American opposition, India conducted nuclear tests twice—in 1974 and 1998. Now, when India’s vainglorious nuclear overlords are going a-begging for uranium fuel, this is the opportunity to squeeze India and pin it down to actually observing NPT rules and procedures even without India becoming a formal NPT signatory.

The US Power Elite has succeeded in achieving all these four major objectives through this deal. The US is already pushing the sale of multi-purpose combat aircraft to India for Rs 45,000 crores. Besides, the USA expects India to buy at least 100 billion dollars (Rs four-and-a-half lakh crores) worth of military hardware (missiles, radars and other items) over the next ten years. The import of ten nuclear reactors with 10,000 MW power generation capacity from the USA alone will cost anything between Rs 50,000 crores and Rs 80,000 crores. Then, there will be costs of imports of other nuclear reactors from France and Russia. The setting up of a reprocessing plant will cost more than Rs 10,000 crores. Since the resulting rise in demand for uranium will raise its per-ton price in the international market, this will mean heavy bleeding of India continually. Thus, it is an unprecedented programme of depriving India’s starving millions further to bail out the richest nation’s armaments and nuclear reactor industries.
 
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The powerful US Chamber of Commerce has come out in strong support of the India-US civil nuclear deal, saying a modest share of the potential $150 billion business could support 250,000 high-tech American jobs.

The US Government’s motives are several-fold.

1. After having invaded Iraq on a false excuse, this government is now deep in a quagmire. After spending one trillion dollars—this is Barack Obama’s estimate, which is less than half of some non-official estimate—and losing four thousand American lives, the US does not as yet know how to wriggle out of this situation. Not only is resentment growing in the USA but some European allies also are distancing themselves from US moves. If India, once the leader of the global non-aligned movement, could be pulled away from the G-77 countries (and also from its friendly ties with Russia) and drawn into the US orbit, it would be a great gain for the US. Administration, overshadowing all losses. For the last six decades the US Power Elite had been longing for this. The US has a habit of propping up certain forces in other countries to gain some advantage and creating conflict situations. It hopes to use naïve Indian personnel to pull the chestnut out of the fire for the US.

2. Export of armaments on a huge scale to India and becoming its arms supplier number one has been the USA’s objective. Now its soaring external debts have greatly whetted this appetite. The US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has openly said that commerce with India in military hardware is priority number one in the Pentagon’s thinking.

3. For the last thirty years, the US nuclear reactor industry has remained starved of orders. After the Three-Mile Island’s nuclear mishap, the American people have not allowed any reactor to be set up. As many as 37 earlier orders had also to be cancelled due to people’s resistance. The Chernobyl meltdown in Ukraine in 1986 has accentuated this sprit of resistance. But a State which wants to keep piling its nuclear arsenal needs to maintain the nuclear reactor industry. The burden has become unbearable even for the richest nation’s public treasury. Since India’s political class, led by the country’s nuclear mandarins, are desperately seeking to import uranium to improve the load factor of existing atomic power plants and is also planning to set up new nuclear reactors despite the disappointing results at home and abroad, it appeared as an excellent business opportunity to the US for bailing out its own reactor making industry at India’s cost. According to news reports, in response to the Bush Administration’s demand for preferential rights, the Government of India has assured the US Secretary of State in advance that India would purchase 10 reactors from the USA and has reserved two sites for their placement. Reportedly, some “strong letters of intent” to some commercial firms in the USA have also been given. When some American commentators, challenging presidential candidate McCain’s idea of setting up some nuclear plants are saying that nuclear energy is too extravagant even for an economy as rich as America’s, the Manamohan Singh Government, which faces a resource crunch to fight poverty, has largesses to set up twenty new nuclear reactors! None can blame America’s cupidity when there are Timons of Athens in India wishing to make India a nation of destitutes.

4. The USA is strong in its determination to disallow any but the five “nuclear-have” countries to develop nuclear muscle. Yet, India, Israel and Pakistan have developed nuclear weapons. Several others, too, are striving to possess similar capacities. Despite the American opposition, India conducted nuclear tests twice—in 1974 and 1998. Now, when India’s vainglorious nuclear overlords are going a-begging for uranium fuel, this is the opportunity to squeeze India and pin it down to actually observing NPT rules and procedures even without India becoming a formal NPT signatory.

The US Power Elite has succeeded in achieving all these four major objectives through this deal. The US is already pushing the sale of multi-purpose combat aircraft to India for Rs 45,000 crores. Besides, the USA expects India to buy at least 100 billion dollars (Rs four-and-a-half lakh crores) worth of military hardware (missiles, radars and other items) over the next ten years. The import of ten nuclear reactors with 10,000 MW power generation capacity from the USA alone will cost anything between Rs 50,000 crores and Rs 80,000 crores. Then, there will be costs of imports of other nuclear reactors from France and Russia. The setting up of a reprocessing plant will cost more than Rs 10,000 crores. Since the resulting rise in demand for uranium will raise its per-ton price in the international market, this will mean heavy bleeding of India continually. Thus, it is an unprecedented programme of depriving India’s starving millions further to bail out the richest nation’s armaments and nuclear reactor industries.



Very good analysis indeed. Thanks.
 
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The powerful US Chamber of Commerce has come out in strong support of the India-US civil nuclear deal, saying a modest share of the potential $150 billion business could support 250,000 high-tech American jobs.

A reasonable analysis but largely one sided.

I hope you understand that, in any major deal there are bound to be trade offs affecting all the parties involved.

Though I agree completely with those who say that Nuclear power alone is not a solution for India's increasing power crunch, I also believe that all the phobia surrounding Nuclear tech. is mostly unsubstantiated. Whether we like it or not there are only three major sources of bulk energy in the world and they are either fossil fuel based, hydroelectric or Nuclear fission based. India has very limited resources of fossil fuels. Petroleum reserves are scanty and coal reserves are being exploited to the fullest extent. Hydroelectric power has some potential in India but most projects are delayed due to several reasons like environmental considerations, unpredictable monsoons leading to fear of flooding.

India already imports most of its oil from abroad. Major suppliers of this oil include the Arab countries and other middle eastern countries. There is severe shortage of oil in the world and whatever is available is a monopoly of a few countries who can easily tailor the supply and demand of oil through OPEC.

India today faces a severe power crunch. Such shortage of power will hurt India in the long run. It is estimated that if India needs to maintain her glorious economic progress then she will have bridge this tremendous supply shortage of power.

The only solution left is Nuclear power. Now this power can be either generated independently or through external help. It must be noted that India does not possess sufficient Uranium to generate the required power. Hence, it is simply a waste of time, effort and resources to pursue research in Uranium based reactors.

On the other hand India possess world's largest reserves of another nuclear fuel called Thorium. It is estimated that if India can develop a reactor that can run on Thorium then we will have enough power for 2500 years. Extensive research is being carried out in the country to develop Thorium based reactors. This is a very complex tech. But we can be proud about the fact that we possess the most advanced tech in this field. Also, nuclear scientists around the world concede to the fact that India will be the first country in the world to develop a functional, commercial Thorium based reactor, if ever one is produced.

Unfortunately, this research is bound to take some time. In the meanwhile the power shortage can not be overlooked. It is also important to note that the target of 20GW of Nuke power set by India was set long before the nuke deal materialized.

Hence, I will say that nuclear power is very important for India. Whether the Nuke deal with US is good or bad, I can not say because all the backdoor trade offs are not public yet. But at the same time I will also say that, Nuclear trade for India with other countries would not have been possible without this deal. At least whatever is said on paper about the deal just shows that we got a big bargain. What happens later, only time will tell. But I can assure you one thing that a govt. that risked a trust vote in the parliament for the deal, certainly hasn't sold the country.
 
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Thats what I was telling.

In this connection I would like to say, China for a long time has kept her isolated to get preparation. Sometimes, isolation is good.

I dont think this is what you were telling. You were telling that India should focus only on "bhookha nanga people" and isolating thier needs from basic necessecities like electricity and power. And again comparasion of India to china is again like comparing Apples to Oranges. We need all round deelopment and everyone's need has to be addressed.

That is your basic problem. You have not learned from your parents how to respect others. Why should you call others potatoes and consider yourself orange? In what sense? Are you universally an orange? Everything is relative Gabbar, read Einstein's Theory of Relativity. This sense of superiority will take India to the dustbin. Just a few years ago India was under colonial rule.

Now this is your basic problem. You have not learned from your parents to read and comprehend.

Where in this post does it says that who are potatoes and who are oranges. Also, if you consider the order in which they are mentioned, it'd make India potato and Iran and NK Oranges, and even that comparasion does not make me angry. We consume more potatoes (especislly the "bhookha Nanga"s)

Moreover, why should anybody be bothered about India's advances in Civil Nuclear projects. We can develop the technology but it would take a lot of time effort and a lot of intellectual capital to do that and as a wise person said "THERE IS NO NEED TO REINVENT THE WHEEL".

The technology is there, available. Why would anybody decline that?
 
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I think this thread as well as so many other threads on this forum have derailed from the topic. The initial discussion was not India's nuclear deal but China blocking Loan to India from ADB. A development loan was blocked for thoroughly political reasons. This loan was applied because India cares about the underprevilaged people and for their upliftment. No one denies the problems of poverty in India and their needs have to be addressed. As long as politically motivated campeigns are there to halt these efforts, this poor population will continue to suffer.
 
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I think this thread as well as so many other threads on this forum have derailed from the topic. The initial discussion was not India's nuclear deal but China blocking Loan to India from ADB. A development loan was blocked for thoroughly political reasons. This loan was applied because India cares about the underprevilaged people and for their upliftment. No one denies the problems of poverty in India and their needs have to be addressed. As long as politically motivated campeigns are there to halt these efforts, this poor population will continue to suffer.

If Indians think that they are the smartest people ever produced on the earth, it will be there fallacy. A bollywood hero may look smart in a bollywood film, made by a bollywood director, but in real life it is not necessary that the hero is a smart boy as he is projected as a smart boy in reel life. Indians cannot distinguish the real life from the reel life.

China eagerly helps Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh, Iran, and other Asian countries. China must not help India financially. Because a few days ago in Gandhi's personal stuff's auction case, the auctioneer demanded India to spend the auction money for the well being of India's bhookha nanga under privileged people, India denied the demand, because the feudal mediaeval dark aged Indian political regime does not care for them. The Tribals who are now Maoists, the untouchables and the shudras can hardly get any fair share from the Indian feudal regime as racism in India is the mainstream way of life. When I say bhookha nanga, I mean, the illiterate hunger stricken tribals and the untouchables who are deprived of their fundamental rights. When cornered, they demand the rights and Indian army open fire by branding them as terrorists. It is very easy for any army to just point sophisticated guns and press the triggers to spread billions of bullets at poor helpless untouchables and dig mass graves for innumerable number of dead bodies to be buried secretly. Its called state sponsored terrorism. Salwa Judum is a state sponsored terrorism. You might find pleasure at that sight, I am sorry I do not. I am a human being. I am not a darinda janwar.

This is the model of development in India. And if ADB lends money to India, India will surly spend that money producing more ammunitions and nuclear capable missiles instead of spending that money for the bhookha nangas who are the natives of the land. Very good. Very good. Continue doing that, India will not need any external force to make the akhanda bharata as a chapter in ancient history.
 
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If Indians think that they are the smartest people ever produced on the earth, it will be there fallacy. A bollywood hero may look smart in a bollywood film, made by a bollywood director, but in real life it is not necessary that the hero is a smart boy as he is projected as a smart boy in reel life. Indians cannot distinguish the real life from the reel life.

China eagerly helps Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bangladesh, Iran, and other Asian countries. China must not help India financially. Because a few days ago in Gandhi's personal stuff's auction case, the auctioneer demanded India to spend the auction money for the well being of India's bhookha nanga under privileged people, India denied the demand, because the feudal mediaeval dark aged Indian political regime does not care for them. The Tribals who are now Maoists, the untouchables and the shudras can hardly get any fair share from the Indian feudal regime as racism in India is the mainstream way of life. When I say bhookha nanga, I mean, the illiterate hunger stricken tribals and the untouchables who are deprived of their fundamental rights. When cornered, they demand the rights and Indian army open fire by branding them as terrorists. It is very easy for any army to just point sophisticated guns and press the triggers to spread billions of bullets at poor helpless untouchables and dig mass graves for innumerable number of dead bodies to be buried secretly. Its called state sponsored terrorism. Salwa Judum is a state sponsored terrorism. You might find pleasure at that sight, I am sorry I do not. I am a human being. I am not a darinda janwar.

This is the model of development in India. And if ADB lends money to India, India will surly spend that money producing more ammunitions and nuclear capable missiles instead of spending that money for the bhookha nangas who are the natives of the land. Very good. Very good. Continue doing that, India will not need any external force to make the akhanda bharata as a chapter in ancient history.

What would I do if ever i was to to find a post which was not a flame bait from you. Anyways I am not taking that route.

My exact point about derailing the thred was instead of discussing Pros and Cons of the topic you decide to weave a fairy or rather a scary tale about Akhand Bharata, then I can remind you that these Communist propoganda never did and never will work in India. Ranting on an on based on Propoganda news and inflamatory comment is the best policy to counter a logical discussion it seems.

Beter luck next time.

Regards

PS: Although Akhand Bharat has made an Entry I am yet to see Zionist Hindutva and Chanakya. Eagerly awaiting the same.
 
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http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/B217972438E52F67652575990056642D?OpenDocument

Beijing, Apr 15 (PTI) The Asian Development Bank (ADB) today termed as a "misunderstanding" a report that China had blocked the Manila-based bank's USD 60 million lending programme for Arunachal Pradesh citing its border dispute with India.
"It was a misunderstanding," ADB President Haruhiko Kuroda told reporters in Manila during a briefing ahead of next month's annual general meeting of the ADB in Bali, Indonesian island of Bali.

"We had a scheduled meeting of the (ADB) board for March 27 to discuss financial assistance for the next three to five years with the country ... In this case India ... But it was deferred by a board member," Kuroda said.

An AFP report said Kuroda did not name China specifically or did not go into details.

Kuroda said the assistance programme for India would be discussed at "a later date." His comments follow reports that China deferred approval of the ADB's three-year partnership strategy for India.

Indian media reported this week that Beijing was unhappy with India's plan to use some of the funding on projects in Arunachal Pradesh.

Meanwhile, asked to comment on media reports on Beijing's blocking of ADB aid project in Arunachal Pradesh, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson did not deny or confirm the reports. PTI
 
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Reports of China block on India loan "misunderstanding": ADB

Beijing, Apr 15 (PTI) The Asian Development Bank (ADB) today termed as a "misunderstanding" a report that China had blocked the Manila-based bank's USD 60 million lending programme for Arunachal Pradesh citing its border dispute with India.
"It was a misunderstanding," ADB President Haruhiko Kuroda told reporters in Manila during a briefing ahead of next month's annual general meeting of the ADB in Bali, Indonesian island of Bali.

"We had a scheduled meeting of the (ADB) board for March 27 to discuss financial assistance for the next three to five years with the country ... In this case India ... But it was deferred by a board member," Kuroda said.

An AFP report said Kuroda did not name China specifically or did not go into details.

Kuroda said the assistance programme for India would be discussed at "a later date." His comments follow reports that China deferred approval of the ADB's three-year partnership strategy for India.

Indian media reported this week that Beijing was unhappy with India's plan to use some of the funding on projects in Arunachal Pradesh.

Meanwhile, asked to comment on media reports on Beijing's blocking of ADB aid project in Arunachal Pradesh, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson did not deny or confirm the reports. PTI




India put money to areas that should belonged to China ,if China agreed ,that means china have admitted this area is india's not china's !!! what excellent trick india plays!!!
:guns::sniper:
 
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