China backing out on power project

[WishLivePak]

they did cut the gas. This article had the exact word weapon and gas in it to show you that it is being used in that context. You are an idiot nit picking the littlest of things.Do you think with the current border issues electricity from India can be depended on??

Gas was never closed


Here, your exact words "Let us see the EU trusted Russia with gas and sometime ago the gas supply stopped."

Now you're saying, EU said Russia not to use gas as a weapon. 2 different statements.

ah you idiot you have no idea about the value of Pakistani funds set up for special purposes. We had a fund for PIA and steel mills and behold we had no circular debt a few years ago... like i said a child with no facts. There is a reason we are over extended the world over and even basics such as fuel are problems

lol, this gets more amazing.

Now that I gave counter proof and gave you clear evidence straight from the article, you go on about saying "but we can't pay PIA debt," I think calling you an idiot will be disgrace for idiots.

Are we not paying IMF? Or other loans?

Dude, you're just embarrassing yourself now. Quit it and admit you're wrong.


@Gufi, here how you're wrong

1) You discuss Russia and EU when I spoke of US and Russia
2) You say Russia stopped gas supply to EU, when Russia didn't and only stopped to Ukraine because of billions of dollars of debt and they refused the price increase
3) you said China was scared they won't be paid electric bill because of people steal and don't pay bills. In the article, gov't gave guarantees.
4) then you say "but look, PIA can't pay debt" and I said how can Pakistan pay IMF and other loans then?

Quit it. You're an embarrassment to human kind.

 

[KingMamba]

Not a surprise honestly, I always spoke when I first signed up that Chinese should not be considered saviors and "friends" and was bashed by other Pakistanis for towing a pro American line lol. That is why I stopped bothering with such things because people here do not seem to learn.

Pakistan needs to look out for itself and rebuild on its own. Similar to how the Germans rebuilt themselves on their own post WW1. How they did it was starting their own public works projects and employing their own people, that is how they built the Autobahn highway system a project that was stuck in the works until Hitler finished it.

Likewise Pakistan needs to build its own roads, its own power plants, parks, schools, and anything else that comes to mind. Also it should finish the Gwadar port on its own and even try and establish a link to Kabul and even connect it to the Iranian Chabahar port.

 

[third eye]

for trade to happen and I am not against it but there needs to be peace on the borders this is not a blame each other comment but a fact that there is no stability in relationships and till that is reached trade will be useless because borders can close any time and supply of electricity cut.

Its the chicken & egg story.

There will never be ' peace' so there will be no trade.

Commerce has the power to dictate national policies, there may be hicups but ultimately it will stabilise.

We ave tried everything including war, lets try commerce too.

 

[Gufi]

lol, this gets more amazing.

we have a payment problem which apparently you do not understand. Just like it seems you forget that our circular debt is a real issue and if the debt can rise to hundred of billions of rupees in a couple of years there is a real issue. IMF has nothing to do with bill collection and repayment.
as for the Russian EU issue it is used as a threat and we can not afford an energy supply with India because of how quickly our relationships destabilizes. apparently you rather nit pick words then understand the context. You keep getting more and more wrong and go back to quote old things without looking at the context.

There will never be ' peace' so there will be no trade.

there is trade that goes on from some time now but every time there are border skirmishes the border gets closed. Electricity would also be the same and do not say that it would be an exception to the rule because that is a very iffy guess.

1) You discuss Russia and EU when I spoke of US and Russia

Russia did use gas as a weapon and you refuse to understand that even if i provided links and facts and statements by real people in power

2) You say Russia stopped gas supply to EU, when Russia didn't and only stopped to Ukraine because of billions of dollars of debt and they refused the price increase

Russia uses that as a bargaining chip ever noticed the timings of the problems in context to world issues or joining the dots hard

3) you said China was scared they won't be paid electric bill because of people steal and don't pay bills. In the article, gov't gave guarantees.

govt gave guarantees
Govt defaults on sovereign guarantee to IPPs | Pakistan Today
read this and understand maybe

4) then you say "but look, PIA can't pay debt" and I said how can Pakistan pay IMF and other loans then?

because the payment of old loans is mostly through this IMF loan read about it you will find this also.
Anything else you want to nit pick one word in this and have another tantrum that is fine

 

[Dash]

I'm just not able to understand why someone's logic or approach won't even be considered for an discussion entry point but rejected outright. When someone has substance then he is eligible for subject.

Pakistan needs to fix its public, that's a must.

 

[Genesis]

So I also like to addsomething on this.
We dont care about these so called diffrence in power and looks strange when you saythis and your leaders did otherwise.I said this because till now we didnt see such a exciting eager reaction from your institutions when the POTUS visited India.Did we ask for that ?

Again I saw a lot of self consoling articles from chinese state media where India will always follow indrpendent policy ,this that etc during that visit.
Did we ask for that ?If difference of power was that striking why couldnt you ignore that event ?
Any way that is off topic .No need for discussion.

We dont care whether you see us as a threat or not.But It was the Chinese that is ganging up with Pakistan for cornering us starting from 1962.Do you want see the proof ?
We were able to do something o about it .But we always follow defensive policy.Then again we saw your drama during 1971 war .
And only after 2010 we began our counter policy and it seems it willget strong in coming future.

So stay on topic .If you can talk about it we can also talk a lot about it.But it wouldnt be good for both of us.

This is a thread of a business project.

First, I'll say this, I mentioned India in one sentence on a wider point, in a post that included many other points, I didn't concentrate on it, I didn't bring it up again, and I didn't try to make even that point with just India.

You said do I need to bring India into it, I told you, it's a Pakistani forum, don't want to bring up India go into a Peru forum, I'm sure India would be the last topic discussed there.

Second, those institutes, are small time mostly, I know there is a perception everything is controlled, but it isn't, not to mention, a lot of things are blown way out of proportion, Chinese and English can be translated, but due to the way you want people to understand, you can use very different words, and have very different meanings, while technically, you translated it.

I seen lots of instances, where such quotes are misused, I'm sure you seen a few as well. Did Xi, or any senior or junior leader come out and say, India meets Obama, now it's clobbering time.


I don't know what any of this has to do with anything, you asked, do I need to bring up India, and I told you exactly why I did it, now if you don't like what's being said, that's your problem, not my.

 

[WishLivePak]

we have a payment problem which apparently you do not understand. Just like it seems you forget that our circular debt is a real issue and if the debt can rise to hundred of billions of rupees in a couple of years there is a real issue. IMF has nothing to do with bill collection and repayment.
as for the Russian EU issue it is used as a threat and we can not afford an energy supply with India because of how quickly our relationships destabilizes. apparently you rather nit pick words then understand the context. You keep getting more and more wrong and go back to quote old things without looking at the context.


there is trade that goes on from some time now but every time there are border skirmishes the border gets closed. Electricity would also be the same and do not say that it would be an exception to the rule because that is a very iffy guess.


Russia did use gas as a weapon and you refuse to understand that even if i provided links and facts and statements by real people in power

Russia uses that as a bargaining chip ever noticed the timings of the problems in context to world issues or joining the dots hard

govt gave guarantees
Govt defaults on sovereign guarantee to IPPs | Pakistan Today
read this and understand maybe

because the payment of old loans is mostly through this IMF loan read about it you will find this also.
Anything else you want to nit pick one word in this and have another tantrum that is fine

1) You said Russia cut gas supply to EU. Proven wrong. Then you bring up some news "EU tells Russia not to use gas as weapon." Where is the statement where it clearly says that Russia cut supply to 0% of gas to EU? Where?

2) Russia was selling cheap gas to Ukraine because it was under its influence and lend the crimea naval base. Then Ukraine gov't changed. They didn't pay Russia its debt and refused to pay extra for gas (Which was standard price in world).

Gee, you're an embarrassment and continue to be embarrassment. If china felt that it'd not get paid for electricity, why are they doing other projects? They should do zero projects.

Get off the internet and take a deep look in the mirror and see who the kid is.

 

[third eye]

there is trade that goes on from some time now but every time there are border skirmishes the border gets closed. Electricity would also be the same and do not say that it would be an exception to the rule because that is a very iffy guess.

The Indus water treaty is an example of maturity.

Signed in early 60's , water supply was not discontinued even during hot war.

Shuru to karen...

 

[pursuit of happiness]

6,600MW Gadani power project put on back burner - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

China is here for self interest. This "Deeper than deepest ocean" blah blah is only because if Chinese interest in region. If US was our neighbour, it'd be same story.

China isn't doing us any favor, rather we're doing them a favor due to the amount of concessions they get.

First lesson of economics class: There is no free lunch and there only exists self interest. The sooner my fellow majority Pakistanis realize this, the sooner Pakistan can grow stronger. Until then, it's a third world country and a puppet state. It has to dance to the tunes of international aid. "We give you X, if you do X for us, even if it means going against your religion or cultural values."

--
Dear ,
with due respect.. you thread headline is not sync with what dawn link shows ..
china may get some project on back burner as per prioorities ,geo politics .. does not mean they back out..
it may be just they going slow or not as normal as they woudl be... in normal state
as article says
As a consequence, Pakistan had to redesign the entire project because transmission line and port facilities also needed to be in consonance with 2,600MW, instead of 6,600MW, but the Chinese side reduced Gwadar Power Park on its priority order.

so its give and take neither china is favoring pak... as they need them
but question is does pak establsihment known their value and use it ?
china is still best bet for pak.. but china look for there intrerest which may not be for people of pak (may be few elits in pak)
china have history in africa which sided with regime which nothing to do with welfare of people but their own few..
china does not care till there intrest is serves .... that a danger pak face with his best alley now ..

 

[ruby007]

I told you guys earlier... there's no friends or allies, only interests which Pakistanis refused to believe, China is Using Pakistan as US used and abandoned. If Indian-Chinese Issues are cleared then for China Pakistan will be no use

 

[airuah]

So basically china signs mutual deals. Takes what was promised to it but scales down or cancels what it promised your country

 

[SrNair]

First, I'll say this, I mentioned India in one sentence on a wider point, in a post that included many other points, I didn't concentrate on it, I didn't bring it up again, and I didn't try to make even that point with just India.

You said do I need to bring India into it, I told you, it's a Pakistani forum, don't want to bring up India go into a Peru forum, I'm sure India would be the last topic discussed there.

Second, those institutes, are small time mostly, I know there is a perception everything is controlled, but it isn't, not to mention, a lot of things are blown way out of proportion, Chinese and English can be translated, but due to the way you want people to understand, you can use very different words, and have very different meanings, while technically, you translated it.

I seen lots of instances, where such quotes are misused, I'm sure you seen a few as well. Did Xi, or any senior or junior leader come out and say, India meets Obama, now it's clobbering time.


I don't know what any of this has to do with anything, you asked, do I need to bring up India, and I told you exactly why I did it, now if you don't like what's being said, that's your problem, not my.

You did it you want to.make a point.
And your petty excuses to justify your controlled media both English and Chinese was quite hilarious.
Any person having common sense can understand what was they meant for.
If such articles was published by our media or Pak Media we can accept that .Because we have a full fledged vibrant democracy and Pakistan has at least partial democracy.But that is not the case in your authoratarian style Communist Govt.Govt is severly restricting the movements of your media.Now dont pass lame comments about your media.Because entire world knows about their so called press freedom.
Ok .This a Pakistan.Defence Forum .But for us Pakistan is just another neighbour like BD or SL and more irritant than rest of our neighbours.So what ?That doesnt mean our identity is based on them or their based on ours .


You are the first one that unwantedly drag India to justify your govts lack of initiative in that Pak Project .While their reason was just pure business but you add something in to it by commenting about countering our nation.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

They backed from 10 power Plant and will build 4 power plants each of 660 MW capacity.. Earlier i heard Qatar and Turkey will build 2 coal power plants at Gaddani..

 

[Shah01]

I think one needs to understand the core problems with the energy sector (power in this case) in Pakistan. There is enough capacity to cope with the current demand. Even if we take account of the losses through the transmission and distribution lines (needs upgrading) and theft (theft need to be reduced). (These losses are normally recovered from the consumers).
The real problem is the difference between the cost of energy generation and tariff for the consumers. This means that the government is footing part of the bill with taxes. This in turn adds to the circular debt (when the government can't pay). Correct me if I am wrong.

The government should abandon generation of electricity from furnace oil. They can convert the current power plants to run on coal and natural gas. Introduce more hydro power generation. Subsidize solar panels and install them on every roof top (grid tied) plus introduce a feed in tariff for all. Adding more capacity to the grid would not deal with these fundamental problems. The government should eliminate the root causes first and then look to expand the power generation.

 

[WishLivePak]

I think one needs to understand the core problems with the energy sector (power in this case) in Pakistan. There is enough capacity to cope with the current demand. Even if we take account of the losses through the transmission and distribution lines (needs upgrading) and theft (theft need to be reduced). (These losses are normally recovered from the consumers).
The real problem is the difference between the cost of energy generation and tariff for the consumers. This means that the government is footing part of the bill with taxes. This in turn adds to the circular debt (when the government can't pay). Correct me if I am wrong.

The government should abandon generation of electricity from furnace oil. They can convert the current power plants to run on coal and natural gas. Introduce more hydro power generation. Subsidize solar panels and install them on every roof top (grid tied) plus introduce a feed in tariff for all. Adding more capacity to the grid would not deal with these fundamental problems. The government should eliminate the root causes first and then look to expand the power generation.

You're right.

Our nation is a subsidized nation. We borrow to subsidy tariffs. I made a thread about oil few days back. Basically, pakistanis want to pay 0 tax (Cuz hey, zardari and nawaz gonna steal, so why don't I steal), pay smallest amount for electricity and otherwise steal and so forth. We feel very entitled.

If gov't was to charge the actual price, the govt will be toppled the next day.