China backing out on power project

[SrNair]

Well yea, I don't think anybody thinks China is a saint or even close.

Pakistan need to have something in it for China, because we don't come empty handed, do we. We invest, we share tech and we sell weapons and tech that some may not be comfortable parting.

However, we cannot leave empty handed, for one, this rivalry with India isn't actually that important right now, as they are not at the stage where we need to use too much effort into anything.

Second, even if we are authoritarian, we can't just tell companies to go in for a loss, and hope for the best, even for us.

Lastly, do you really want Pakistan to be known as the place charity is being granted? 5 bucks is charity, in the international arena that maybe a few billion, but in terms of real money, especially that of a nation of Pakistan's size, that's like giving 5 bucks to a family of 10.



One word, Japan. Before China's rise or anything, Japan was already a major world player, Pakistan can certainly be somebody without India, whether they should want to is another story.

There are big markets, and great partners all around the world. You don't need to be tied down to anyone. But also, you shouldn't discount anyone, as that's just not smart.



Look at the world and China, America, at this point, hates our guts, but they can do no more than a half baked attempt at TPP, which is about as effective as a paper cut.

It's much better to be allies for practical than sentimental reasons.

Was that necessary ?I mean dragging India in to this What is the need of it?
This is just normal business.

 

[third eye]

There, I spotted one overly nationalist.

Tell me, why is it a problem to give "MFN" status to India? Because it says "Most favorite nation" (or whatever is called)? They had to change the name in order to give to India (still haven't given yet) because it sounded so wrong to Pakistanis. India and most favorite? ewww

Meanwhile india has given us MFN status long long time ago.

We S Asians are masters are cutting our own nose to spite our face.

Lahore is closer to Delhi / Ludhiana than it is to Karachi & similarly N India is closer to Pakistan than it is to Mumbai.

We are still trading but via Dubai or such places ! The cost is borne by the end customer.

The cost of moving goods from here would be much less and also reduce the burden on existing transport infra in both nations due the long hauls.The final beneficiary would be the common man on both sides .

But when did the common man matter ?

 

[Edevelop]

Before Indians jump in joy they should be reminded this is just 1 project. Chinese president is coming over to sign $ 42 Billion investment deals.

 

[WishLivePak]

there is difference between trade of value added goods and products and basics such as electricity, the only example of total or partial dependence of a resource is gas and EU and the result is in front of you.
And look into our own circular debt before you blame the Chinese. There are problems with bill collection which stems from stupid governance and that issue will not change where ever we get our power from. now go study facts and context and learn to study things before commenting like a child

LOL, now you're changing topic again. Now you say people don't pay their bills. Haha, admit that you came out very stupidly to argue with me.

First of all, AFAIK, gas is still supplied to EU. They cut it to Ukraine because Ukraine owes Russia a lot of money (billions of dollars). Plus Russia wanted to sell the gas more expensive since Ukraine was no longer under Russian influence. As a result of Ukraine directly (through which many Russian pipe line runs), EU supply was affected. But now it's all sorted out.


So before you go around lecturing others, calling out names and saying they're child, maybe it is time for you to grow your peanut size brain, know more about what is happening in the background before quoting others. And when proven wrong, don't shy away or change topic and admit your mistake. We all make mistake.

 

[Norwegian]

Create some companies that can build power plants and take care of your national needs so that you do not have to go and beg others and then get disappointed when rejected by them. This is the only way:

Oh please. You Iranians were saved by your Islamic Revolution with united leadership of a Supreme Leader. Only thing that is supreme in Pakistan is corruption. Do not compare your great country with ours!

 

[WishLivePak]

We S Asians are masters are cutting our own nose to spite our face.

Lahore is closer to Delhi / Ludhiana than it is to Karachi & similarly N India is closer to Pakistan than it is to Mumbai.

We are still trading but via Dubai or such places ! The cost is borne by the end customer.

The cost of moving goods from here would be much less and also reduce the burden on existing transport infra in both nations due the long hauls.The final beneficiary would be the common man on both sides .

But when did the common man matter ?

Actually it is the common man to blame, who says "i rather eat grass than let the two trade" Because gov't policy is made through public opinion. Do you not see here? @Gufi constantly saying we shouldn't buy electricity from India and giving absurd examples that has zero relations to current scenario.

We can reduce line losses so much. Karachi will supply electricity to all the way in Peshawar (when nuclear plants are constructed), or we can purchase it from India (based on my small innocent knowledge). But noppe, jiye Pakistan, murda hindu country eww, die india

 

[Genesis]

Was that necessary ?I mean dragging India in to this What is the need of it?
This is just normal business.

you tell me, in terms of this discussion, this very narrow discussion. No, I didn't need to, and mostly I don't, I mostly bring up India, to prove a point to Indian members on how difficult it is to do certain things, by looking at the difficulties you might face.

But in the broad term of this forum and this entire Pakistan, India, China discussion, then yes, I do need to bring India into this. Here's why, what does Pakistan get accused off so often in this forum, being someone we "control" that distracts India.

What I'm saying is, that is simply not the case, China doesn't use Pakistan for that, even if we did, it would be of very little value, due to the present difference in power, and that any relationship must be give and take.


I seen this too often from all members, they pretend like do you need to bring someone into this, yes, yes you do, have you been on these forums. It's a continuous discussion, we don't start our views with every new thread, they are constantly being discussed and updated, and being a Pakistani forum, I would think India, Pakistan, China would have a very important role in this discussion.

 

[Gufi]

LOL, now you're changing topic again. Now you say people don't pay their bills. Haha, admit that you came out very stupidly to argue with me.

first of all Russia uses the gas as a weapon that you just have to look into and you will find out. Try google it helps when you have a low IQ.
EU warns Russia not to use gas as weapon in Ukraine crisis - Business Insider
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/10/03/putins-last-and-best-weapon-against-europe-gas-272652.html

after that comes the whole issue of why China is stopping or rather pausing the development is because their were many projects announced and all are waiting for some great miracle to start because of our stupid governance. I did not change the topic it is expected one to have basic understanding before he starts talking but I guess you must be really thick. Read where the Chinese said they are worried about payments. Must not be in your capacity to understand

Actually it is the common man to blame, who says "i rather eat grass than let the two trade" Because gov't policy is made through public opinion. Do you not see here? @Gufi constantly saying we shouldn't buy electricity from India and giving absurd examples that has zero relations to current scenario.

 

[WishLivePak]

first of all Russia uses the gas as a weapon that you just have to look into and you will find out. Try google it helps when you have a low IQ.
EU warns Russia not to use gas as weapon in Ukraine crisis - Business Insider
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/10/03/putins-last-and-best-weapon-against-europe-gas-272652.html

after that comes the whole issue of why China is stopping or rather pausing the development is because their were many projects announced and all are waiting for some great miracle to start because of our stupid governance. I did not change the topic it is expected one to have basic understanding before he starts talking but I guess you must be really thick. Read where the Chinese said they are worried about payments. Must not be in your capacity to understand

lol, a warning.

Now didn't you say "Russia cut gas supply to EU?"

HAHA. Proving my own point. You've no clue on international relations. Again, let me let you little kid, I was talking about US and Russia doing trades. You are the one who dug his own grave and involved EU and Russia gas supply, for which I gave proof that Ukraine owed billions of dollars of debt and refused to pay extra to Russia for gas prices.

Quit crying and admit you were wrong, very wrong.

 

[Gufi]

We S Asians are masters are cutting our own nose to spite our face.

for trade to happen and I am not against it but there needs to be peace on the borders this is not a blame each other comment but a fact that there is no stability in relationships and till that is reached trade will be useless because borders can close any time and supply of electricity cut.

 

[WishLivePak]

first of all Russia uses the gas as a weapon that you just have to look into and you will find out. Try google it helps when you have a low IQ.
EU warns Russia not to use gas as weapon in Ukraine crisis - Business Insider
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/10/03/putins-last-and-best-weapon-against-europe-gas-272652.html

after that comes the whole issue of why China is stopping or rather pausing the development is because their were many projects announced and all are waiting for some great miracle to start because of our stupid governance. I did not change the topic it is expected one to have basic understanding before he starts talking but I guess you must be really thick. Read where the Chinese said they are worried about payments. Must not be in your capacity to understand

LOL

Here is another piece of idiocy for you. If you happen to read the article, the gov't ensured to pay the Chinese for the sales. "

The committee was told that memorandums of understanding were also signed with China under China-Pakistan Economic Corridor Project for 10 Gadani Power Projects, but later Beijing scaled down its priority over financial and technical apprehensions. For example, the Chinese had concerns over payment issues against electricity sales after the completion of projects and suggested AC, instead of DC, circuit transmission line.

The parliamentary panel was informed Pakistan had even agreed to set up a revolving fund to facilitate direct payments to power producers against electricity sales and was ready to set up AC circuit transmission line, but China reduced the number of projects to four from 10."

Again, you need to educate yourself before calling out names on others. Your signature suits you very well. I hope you don't run away and admit you were wrong.

 

[Gufi]

Now didn't you say "Russia cut gas supply to EU?"

they did cut the gas. This article had the exact word weapon and gas in it to show you that it is being used in that context. You are an idiot nit picking the littlest of things.Do you think with the current border issues electricity from India can be depended on??

 

[third eye]

Actually it is the common man to blame, who says "i rather eat grass than let the two trade" Because gov't policy is made through public opinion. Do you not see here? @Gufi constantly saying we shouldn't buy electricity from India and giving absurd examples that has zero relations to current scenario.

We can reduce line losses so much. Karachi will supply electricity to all the way in Peshawar (when nuclear plants are constructed), or we can purchase it from India (based on my small innocent knowledge). But noppe, jiye Pakistan, murda hindu country eww, die india

The day we get over our Egos we will prosper.

 

[kaykay]

Just be practical. This has nothing to do with friendship or enmity. In this practical world, nothing comes for free and nobody fight your war unless they get their share of benefits. And this applies to all countries.

 

[Gufi]

Chinese had concerns over payment issues against electricity sales after the completion of projects and suggested AC, instead of DC, circuit transmission line.

The parliamentary panel was informed Pakistan had even agreed to set up a revolving fund to facilitate direct payments to power producers against electricity sales and was ready to set up AC circuit transmission line, but China reduced the number of projects to four from 10."

ah you idiot you have no idea about the value of Pakistani funds set up for special purposes. We had a fund for PIA and steel mills and behold we had no circular debt a few years ago... like i said a child with no facts. There is a reason we are over extended the world over and even basics such as fuel are problems