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China and Russia flex muscle at the West

What is it that we do that Threatens both China and Russia?

You are doing that right now! You lie, deceive, murder, and all, in the name of 'democracy and human rights' and then stage a drama to show the world how innocent you are.

As I said elsewhere Russia and China overplayed their hand in GCC+, they need to get out of that region and concentrate more on stabilizing Afghanistan, under SCO, once US withdraws from this region.

Kallu mia, I think you should be a bit more careful, you are blowing your cover. I think we understand what your kallu business is.
 
China - Russia partnership is good for the World. The World had become a very dangerous place with the US claiming to be the World's Sole Superpower...



What is it that we do that Threatens both China and Russia?


The World detests American Unilateralism. What part of that concept are you having difficulty understanding ?
 
You are doing that right now! You lie, deceive, murder, and all, in the name of 'democracy and human rights' and then stage a drama to show the world how innocent you are.


Kallu mia, I think you should be a bit more careful, you are blowing your cover. I think we understand what your kallu business is.

The US actually have done quite a bit of it, but all countries do it, US is no exception. Its called human nature, law of the jungle, might is right real-politik or power politics.

And why should I have to be careful, what cover would that be? I express my frank opinions as always. I am on no ones side and at the same time I am on everyone's side. I think it is beyond the scope of your ability to understand where I am coming from, and I say that at the risk of sounding arrogant, based on the posts I have seen from you so far.
 
you are hating on russia because...well, you said, you are a turkic.

your breed is but a wedge planted by anglo-americans and jews to sow disunity and chaos on my continent. it's got nothing to do with the muslim world - it's got everything to do with pan-turkics being pan-turkics

What is your beef with turks and turkics, do you have any hatred for them? If yes, why? Turks are doing what they can to protect their interest. Ottoman's had many wars with Russia, so some hostility and mistrust is natural.

You are calling them "your breed", what breed would that be? What is your continent? All of Asia?

Turks and Turkics have a lot to do with the Muslim world. Look at your Hui Muslims, most of them have Turkic ancestors. After Arab Khilafa, Turkic Mamelukes and later Turko-Mongols expanded and ruled the Muslim world. So Turkic blood is not just in Turkey, it is almost everywhere in Muslim world, specially among the ruling classes, excluding South East Asia, where Islam was spread by Arab traders.

"anglo-americans and jews" like Nixon and Kissinger, the China-lover, have given you the chance to rise with their market access in the US and EU. Also if it was not for them, you would still probably be under the Japanese or at least loose major chunks of your territory to the Japanese. So you should be thankful to them for beating the Japanese and for giving you market access. Now after all they have done for you, instead of showing gratitude, you have become all arrogant and boastful.

If people of European origin were a little smarter, you would not be able to get away with this. You got this opportunity, because of their lack of foresight. But if you guys cannot grow up from this kind of nonsense attitude problems, then you will not be able to lead the world regardless of how powerful you are militarily. People will always prefer the people of European origin over the Chinese, because of their fairness and sharing attitude.
 
I disagree. The worst nation this earth has seen, by far, has been America. Russia doesn't come close.
Oh this is going to be good.:flame:

To throw the dog a bone, i'm not even going to argue your accusations against the US.

America lies, yet it blames others for lying.

Russia does this, China does this

America kills, yet it blames other for murder.

Russia does this, China does this


America limit's freedom, yet it blames others for human rights abuses.
Russia does this, China does this

America sets up dictators even if it's against the general public's opinion, yet when they have to take a dictator that's not in their interest down - they don't hesitate to do so..

Russia does this, the general public's opinion doesn't matter period.

China has attempted to do this (yea South Korea was a newly emerged democracy at that time but that is not a plus) but failed, mostly do to their lack of capability at the time. The general public's opinion doesn't matter period.

America is full of lies, deceit, hate, and murder.

According to your criteria Russia and China are too.

Do you have any other accusations that are uniquely American in nature?
 
As I said elsewhere Russia and China overplayed their hand in GCC+, they need to get out of that region and concentrate more on stabilizing Afghanistan, under SCO, once US withdraws from this region.

I think they have drawn the line at the SCO. Iran is an observer. I think Russia and China would be happy to let Assad fall provided America and its proxies would stop there. But far from it they want to use this to attack Iran next.

Basically America wants regime change govts both in Iran and Syria and accept their proxies in the form of Sauds and Israel to the west. Next would most likely to hurt and subjugate Pakistan to their proxy in the east

I'll bet all of you with western flags are buying tickets to Russia and China now, right?

seems like a good idea. I see Juice you and your mob are learning Chinese in preparation to leave US I suppose:

More Americans Learn Their ABCs In Chinese : NPR
 
I think they have drawn the line at the SCO. Iran is an observer. I think Russia and China would be happy to let Assad fall provided America and its proxies would stop there. But far from it they want to use this to attack Iran next.

Basically America wants regime change govts both in Iran and Syria and accept their proxies in the form of Sauds and Israel to the west. Next would most likely to hurt and subjugate Pakistan to their proxy in the east



seems like a good idea. I see Juice you and your mob are learning Chinese in preparation to leave US I suppose:

More Americans Learn Their ABCs In Chinese : NPR

Nope, love my country (lived in several), and love it enough to actually want to live in it.
 
Oh this is going to be good.:flame:

To throw the dog a bone, i'm not even going to argue your accusations against the US.



Russia does this, China does this



Russia does this, China does this


Russia does this, China does this



Russia does this, the general public's opinion doesn't matter period.

China has attempted to do this (yea South Korea was a newly emerged democracy at that time but that is not a plus) but failed, mostly do to their lack of capability at the time. The general public's opinion doesn't matter period.



According to your criteria Russia and China are too.

Do you have any other accusations that are uniquely American in nature?

So you do not deny America does all the bad things that RayKalm mentioned. It is no mitigation that others cheat lie and kill and that is why Americans do it. I thought we were fed with a diet of how America held the higher moral ground?? All propaganda was it?

Nope, love my country (lived in several), and love it enough to actually want to live in it.

How are you mate. I been to America and China liked them both. Never been to Russia. But Juice why are more Americans learning mandarin mate??
 
The US actually have done quite a bit of it, but all countries do it, US is no exception. Its called human nature, law of the jungle, might is right real-politik or power politics.

You didn't say it before I pointed the finger and that makes all the difference.

And why should I have to be careful,

Don't tell us you're not, bugs always are.

I am on no ones side and at the same time I am on everyone's side. I think it is beyond the scope of your ability to understand where I am coming from, and I say that at the risk of sounding arrogant, based on the posts I have seen from you so far.

And based on the posts you've posted so far one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to understand where you stand. The problem with people like you is that they think that they can fool the world forever.
 
So we can do business there. That's how capitalism works (thought you worked in the finance sector...you should know this). Anyways, glad you're in England, would miss your enlightening post during load sheding if you weren't ;)
 
You didn't say it before I pointed the finger and that makes all the difference.

Don't tell us you're not, bugs always are.

And based on the posts you've posted so far one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to understand where you stand. The problem with people like you is that they think that they can fool the world forever.

Say what before?

So you are calling me names, "bugs"? Why if I may ask? what is it about my posts that makes you upset?

Where do I stand?

And how am I fooling the world again?

Doesn't this post look nicer and more well behaved without the bold letters?
 
I think they have drawn the line at the SCO. Iran is an observer. I think Russia and China would be happy to let Assad fall provided America and its proxies would stop there. But far from it they want to use this to attack Iran next.

Basically America wants regime change govts both in Iran and Syria and accept their proxies in the form of Sauds and Israel to the west. Next would most likely to hurt and subjugate Pakistan to their proxy in the east

I saw your other related post here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/123873-syrian-conflict-115.html#post3069470

There is intense policy debate in the US and Israel about whether to attack Iran or not. May be you can open a different thread on that, unless there is some existing ones already.

Regime change in Iran is a priority for the US. The green movement agitated for cancelling the past election and have a more "free, fair and legitimate election". I am sure US had some role in this agitation, and why not? I think the fall of this current theocratic regime or at least the fall of the hardliners, will be good for Iran. But then its the people of Iran that should choose their leader, it does not matter what others or US want.

Iranian regime may be worried that it is loosing popularity and they could be ousted at some point in another agitation, so they think that having nukes will somehow help them stay in power. Also people say that bombing Iran will actually bolster the regime, as it will inflame nationalistic passion among people and the people will rally around the current regime.

I think Iran by itself is not equipped to withstand the threat it faces from the US/Israel/GCC, so it should become a part of SCO as soon as possible, that way it can no longer be threatened by US/Israel/GCC. The same applies to Pakistan as well, but then Pakistan also has nukes, so may be it should not worry about being attacked.

But the bigger question is - are Russia and China ready to commit about Iran and Pakistan's security under SCO, in a NATO like security architecture? I think they are still not ready to take this huge step. When they guarantee Iran and Pakistan security under an SCO nuke umbrella, only then others will stop interfering and allow these nations to become more stable internally.

The above is my personal opinion only.
 
So we can do business there. That's how capitalism works (thought you worked in the finance sector...you should know this). Anyways, glad you're in England, would miss your enlightening post during load sheding if you weren't ;)

Juice you just conform that you are trying to emulate other Americans in this list where some of your countrymen have made an entry

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/187855-top-10-trolls-internet-history.html

I saw your other related post here:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/123873-syrian-conflict-115.html#post3069470

There is intense policy debate in the US and Israel about whether to attack Iran or not. May be you can open a different thread on that, unless there is some existing ones already.

Regime change in Iran is a priority for the US. The green movement agitated for cancelling the past election and have a more "free, fair and legitimate election". I am sure US had some role in this agitation, and why not? I think the fall of this current theocratic regime or at least the fall of the hardliners, will be good for Iran. But then its the people of Iran that should choose their leader, it does not matter what others or US want.

Iranian regime may be worried that it is loosing popularity and they could be ousted at some point in another agitation, so they think that having nukes will somehow help them stay in power. Also people say that bombing Iran will actually bolster the regime, as it will inflame nationalistic passion among people and the people will rally around the current regime.

I think Iran by itself is not equipped to withstand the threat it faces from the US/Israel/GCC, so it should become a part of SCO as soon as possible, that way it can no longer be threatened by US/Israel/GCC. The same applies to Pakistan as well, but then Pakistan also has nukes, so may be it should not worry about being attacked.

But the bigger question is - are Russia and China ready to commit about Iran and Pakistan's security under SCO, in a NATO like security architecture? I think they are still not ready to take this huge step. When they guarantee Iran and Pakistan security with an SCO nuke umbrella, only then others will stop interfering and allow these nations to become more stable internally.

I agree with you on some parts mate. A lot of what you say is common sense and I normally agree with it. Regime change is simply not a possible without western interference imo.

As far as Russia and China go they are being hemmed in and they will nit be doing Iran Syria Pakistan any favours. They will be l; looking after their own interest.

China and Russia would throw Assad under a bus if America and its allies were prepared to draw a line on Syria but Saudi and Israel certainly will not in the west and India has it's own agenda in the east. I wrote an article that you may want to check out.

J

China and Russia would throw Assad under a bus if America and its allies were prepared to draw a line on Syria but Saudi and Israel certainly will not in the west and India has it's own agenda in the east. I wrote an article that you may want to check out.


America’s disproportionate response to the twin towers attack; the invasion of Iraq & Afghanistan is estimated to have cost in the region of 4 trillion US dollars [v]. No one can deny the macroeconomic [vi]effects of the attack itself.
Osama it would appear has died but it would appear Americans are being bled to death. Today America has official unemployment standing at 9.2% in reality nearer 17% [vii]. One in six in america on food stamps [viii]. America today has a unsustainable deficit of $14 trillion plus.

If the US dollar was not the reserve currency America would be bankrupt as the French finance Minister Giscard d’estaing said in the sixties the reserve currency allows America the exorbitant privilege. This is what allow Americans to undertake quantitive easing aka printing money and get away with it.

There are two countries in the world that could destroy the US dollar as reserve currency overnight that is Saudi and China. If Saudis refused to accept the US dollar for their oil or if the Chinese started dumping the dollar that would be the end. However Saudis and Chinese would not be left unscathed themselves by these actions. If US dollar was not reserve currency a gallon of petrol in America would go over $100. Americans would be unable to fuel their weapons of terror like the F16’s. Even if Saudis and China were to take no action but continue decreasing their reliance on the dollar I estimate that the tipping point for the US$ will be reached within 10 years [ix].

Has Osama in death succeeded. Will historians in future years look back and say he struck the first fatal blow at Pax America

Clearly we are rapidly approaching the end of Pax America. America is on the demise and China is on the rise. Sometime in the future China will take over the role of world leader. This is inevitable as the sun rises. Its just a question of time. In the past empires have clashed and there has always been war and misery whenever the baton is exchanged. You may well think that America and British empire exchanged the baton peacefully. But this is not the case. Only Hitler and the Germans stopped direct hostilities between the British empire. In fact in 1930 America was making preparations to attack the British[x].

The big question is can Americans accept the new world order where they and white English speaking countries will not have the edge and control world resources.
We live in a world today that is often described as a global village. To me this just means that a steady osmosis has been taking place since the early nineties. Its like mixing water with a dye. It was happening because the dye and water were in contact, but the effect of the global village is to shake the bottle and mix the dye and water quickly and completely at a quicker rate. It is inevitable that this osmosis will see a redistribution of wealth and resources. The richer Americans will get poorer, the poorer Chinese will become richer etc. It is unlikely that the average Chinese will be as rich as the average American today. But the Chinese will be better off and the American worse off. The Americans or Europeans will will face greater difficult in adjusting as they are not used to hardship.

The west and or Americans use notions of democracy and human rights to try to gain the moral high ground which in reality is just an anaesthetic to soothe the collective conceience of the remnants' of the population of the Judeo Christian empire. When the writer refers to a country the reference is to the relevant countries government. The writer feels the necessity to say this because although America prides itself in that it is a democracy its foreign policy is dictated by a displined small number of American Jews (hense the demonising of Pakistan the only moslem country with nukes) with the majority of American people living in the ignorance fed on a daily diet of propaganda from the likes of Fox news. In the UK 75% of the electorate chose not to vote or vote against the present incumbent. Yet the govt can and does lead the UK into war. It is asserted that if such a thing as democracy existed wars would not exist. People do not choose to go to war. Governments decide to go to war. It is submitted the western notions of fairness and human rights are just a cloak for their nefarious designs.

Its with this background that we have to see American actions in the rest of the world including Iraq Afghanistan and Libya. It would seem that Syria Pakistan and Iran could soon be recipients of the American way of life in the near future. If Americans were to succeed in having their way in Afghanistan and Pakistan it would seriously threaten China bearing in mind that India is already friendly towards America. It would be a serious setback to Chinese in that supply routes could be closed by America at will.

China & Russia are probably the only two militaries that can afford to take America on and make Americans think twice. I say this because China & Russia are the only two countries that can threaten the American mainland with nuclear weapons.

I am not suggesting that they would necessarily win against America but they could certainly cause Americans unacceptable damage.

One can not help notice that when Russia took action against Georgia who Americans and Nato were making friendly overtures to Americans and Nato did little to help Georgia who they had earlier encouraged to be boisterous towards Russia. The American therefore can be pragmatic when pushed and their bluff is called.

American sabre rattling on Iran is not being ignored by Russia & China. Both have prevented Iran from being completely isolated. The Chinese and Russians were not happy with what happened in Libya and are unlikely to be conned again. The movement towards Syria by Russian assets and the refusal by Russians to accept missiles near their borders must not be ignored as the wishfull dreams of power by a former superpower.

With Putin about to be re-elected in Russia makes the way for a more assertive Russia when it comes to America. The only time there seemed that coordination was lacking between Medev and Putin was on the Libyan action and it was clear that Putin thought Nato’s actions were unacceptable and likened Natos actions to the Crusaders [xi].
I believe that the Chinese & Russians are keeping a close eye on what is happening and may coordinate their actions to prevent this

The danger is that Americans and Europe are in financial crisis and may need to get more adventurous in their search for stealing third world resources and influence and may use force. Will they risk the ire of China and or Russia? They will not in my opinion accept a new order that is not dominated by American, European and white English speaking countries? Could they? Will they risk WW3 with nukes?

Many will see a war hot or cold unlikely, because why should China or Russia risk their own assets for Pakistan, Iran etc? Could China not just keep rising without a war? My take is that the west can see what is going to happen ie if they dont take some sort of action they will no longer lead the world. If they keep managing to get away with their adventures in due course China & Russia will be targets.
.
Lawrence Freeman from the Executive Intelligence Review magazine [xii]has stated that

“President Obama is acting on a British geopolitical plan to force a confrontation with Russia and China, a military confrontation of which Syrian and Iran would nearly be the ignition point. But the real goal is a war to stop the progress that Russia and China are engulfed in” .

I think in the face of this alliance Russia has a key part to play and America when it realises its losing may try bribing Russia. After all the Russians are white at least.

Will Russia & China have the foresight to prevent American and Nato from stealing and controlling the world resources before its too late?



________________________________________
JJ Donohue, Steven levitt
[ii]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/jan/17/yemen.islam
[iii]http://www.npolicy.org/userfiles/image/Could%20Anything%20Be%20Done%20to%20Stop%20Them.pd f
[iv]How-safe-should-we-feel-about-the-terrorist-threat
[v]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/war-on-terror-set-to-surpass-cost-of-second-world-war-2304497.html
[vi]http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ois_wp_impacts_911.pdf
[vii]http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/learn-how-to-invest/The-real-unemployment-rate.aspx
[viii]http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162-57328305/americas-new-poor/
[ix]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html
[x]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039453/How-America-planned-destroy-BRITAIN-1930-bombing-raids-chemical-weapons.html
[xi] Video: Putin likens Libya air strikes to 'crusades' - Telegraph
[xii]http://rt.com/news/syria-iran-russia-china-921/

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