China All Su-35 news

[ChineseTiger1986]

Several things do not make sense.

Why develop the J-11D first and then buy the Su-35 later?

Why upgrade the Su-30MK2 to a PL-12 standard if Russian radar/avionics and weapons are so good? I'm sure Russia would love to sell more R-77s.

The J-20 does not require the 117S. These mysterious black engines were unveiled a week before Xi Jinping visited Washington in September this year, obviously as a form of muscle flexing in front of Obama. They are clearly not AL-31FN.

AL-31FN looks like this. I'm sure we've all seen enough J-10 pictures to know what the AL-31FN looks like by now.

The only explanation that would make sense is that China wants to buy 24 Su-35s to form an aggressor squadron. What's the point of buying a foreign fighter that can't even datalink with Chinese AEW&C aircraft?

The J-11D is also using the WS-10B engine.

 

[cnleio]

Still you didn't answer my question...why buy? When you claim your aerospace industry is better than Russia's....why buy a 4++ gen fighter when you have j30 and apparently capable aerospace industry...why?

LOL ... i hear the b@llsh!t from a Indian, who tell u that ? Nobody forbide China to import jet from Russia, does this need a reason ? IAF imported hundred fighters from Russia, need a reason why ?

Apart from being very alarming in an Indian and American point of view. Where are those cheerleaders who said this deal don't exist and China won't buy 4++ generation fighter anymore? Looks like this number could go way beyond 24 and could reach a century or so.

What it really mean for people of China?

1) Insecurity of current Chinese made aircraft is given

2) Chinese leaders themselves don't think China is in position to go for war with current capabilities. Think about it. What if Vietnam gets Su35 or what will be the reaction in China establishment when India signs deals for PakFa and lay down the ground work for FGFA. This deal as put China atleast 15 years backwards.

3) Chinese claims of having in-house capacity to produce world class weapons is seriously scrutinized. Check below listing :

China's best engine : imported from Russia. Works for indegineous engine (Literally a Ripoff) going on for more than 30 years.

China's best war ship? Designed and built in China by Russians

China's best cruise missiles. An Soviet Union Ripoff

China's missile force : Soviet and current Russians technology and with more Ripoff.

China's best Attack helicopters : Secretly signed deal with Russia to design and build in China. Even India is in the verge to cracking world's most powerful Light attack choppers.

List Is soo on. If this goes through, it will hurt the morale of Chinese armed forces and more over people on China. As we all know Chinese armed procurements are largely indulged in corrupt practices. Just pay a lump they will buy your weapon in large numbers and officials push for export for more kickbacks.

Am I wrong in looking at this deal in this manner? As I already said. It's gonna be a huge blow to our power-packed buildup against China at borders and at SCS. Now US airforce can't claim that in just a week 2 fleet of USAF can wipe 50% Chinese Aircrafts at will. As Russians built these tech while keeping American massive numbers and avionics superiority.

Now my fingers crossed for PakFa and much rumoured Su35S and super Sukois upgrades goes through before end of this year.

That's great, u r the BOSS of AVIC pls tell us more about how Chinese design aircrafts in China ... Here im feel pity for ur guys, talking too much b@llsh!t on internet, and joke in real world.


I repeat it again, PLAAF to build a 1,000x 4gen-5gen fighter fleet in China ... the reason why we need many China-produced and Russia-produced new modern fighters in futuer years. If here Indian members still can't understand it, that's indeed not my fault coz lack of foresight. Time is the most important thing for China development, both sides produce can save many time and the price is Okay. Does the enemy care how many Made in China or Made in Russia 4gen-5gen fighters in PLAAF ? Go to hell as many as we can !


BTW How many India arms export to foreign nations each year, compared with China international weapon business ?

 

[kurutoga]

I'm concerned about our development for the first time. I'm not going to lie. There are two schools of thought. If this deal intent for us to fill the gap in airpower, then this deal is like a bow cross my heart. It is a fucking disgrace and whoever responsible for the J-11 should look in the mirror. If this deal intent for dissecting Russian latest tech, then it worth's every penny. I am always said no matter how much we progress, we MUST always seek to learn from others. It is going through learning and understand of other tech system can we dream of ever creating a Monster Beast of a Machine. I am hoping this deal intent for the latter, then there is no price to learn.

Do you remember the first report from Su-35 air show demonstrations? Some people from Chinese Air Force were so impressed by that jet's maneuverability. They may just have to buy to take a closer look. You have to understand the same group of people were so much stronger in 1980s. Now they are in the minority. Military is not a single-minded entity but a collection of many groups and some of them have different preferences. If one group is determined to buy some Su-35, they will create some legit reasons, not based on actual combat capabilities, for spending the money.

However, if Su-35 turns out to be a disappointment, I think this would be the end of Russian jet import.

 

[xunzi]

Do you remember the first report from Su-35 air show demonstrations? Some people from Chinese Air Force were so impressed by that jet's maneuverability. They may just have to buy to take a closer look. You have to understand the same group of people were so much stronger in 1980s. Now they are in the minority. Military is not a single-minded entity but a collection of many groups and some of them have different preferences. If one group is determined to buy some Su-35, they will create some legit reasons, not based on actual combat capabilities, for spending the money.

However, if Su-35 turns out to be a disappointment, I think this would be the end of Russian jet import.

No matter what reason, the leadership must take responsible and accountable to give China the best chance to win a war. As I have said, if getting this deal will further down improve our ability to create a .monster of a beast, then it worths every pennies. People are not going to be happy to see wasting billions just so some Air FoFCe squadron wants to play with Su35.

As Xi have said, no time to play around. We need to put extra effort in current jet development.

 

[Sasquatch]

Is it possible these could be transferred to Pakistan some time later ? Only thing worth wild on it is the 117s Engines ?

@ChineseTiger1986 @Beast

 

[BoQ77]

There are some facts
1. SU 35 is better than any type of Chinese aircraft atm.
2. 24x is the normal qty for first order. Study this and you find most of first order always like that.
3. Delivery time is not tomorrow or next year.
4. Spare parts, weapons purchase, maintenance facility.. Are essential for any type of aircraft.
5. Russia must have better aircraft on hands

 

[cnleio]

There are some facts
1. SU 35 is better than any type of Chinese aircraft atm.
2. 24x is the normal qty for first order. Study this and you find most of first order always like that.
3. Delivery time is not tomorrow or next year.
4. Spare parts, weapons purchase, maintenance facility.. Are essential for any type of aircraft.
5. Russia must have better aircraft on hands

Ur fact is nothing ... don't simply make the conclusion for China. U don't read the agreement in Moscow ... just watch this thread, didn't u already make many conclusions in this place ?

 

[Akasa]

1. SU 35 is better than any type of Chinese aircraft atm.

Highly doubtful; the J-11D and J-16 feature the same kind of upgrade scheme as that of the Su-35, such as airframe and electronic enhancements, but also with an AESA radar. The J-20 should also start LRIP in 2016.

 

[Beast]

Is it possible these could be transferred to Pakistan some time later ? Only thing worth wild on it is the 117s Engines ?

@ChineseTiger1986 @Beast

Maybe but the problem is Russia now has directly contact Pakistan for armed deal and the possibility of Using China as middle man for Su-35 looks less remote.

 

[BoQ77]

Highly doubtful; the J-11D and J-16 feature the same kind of upgrade scheme as that of the Su-35, such as airframe and electronic enhancements, but also with an AESA radar. The J-20 should also start LRIP in 2016.

Yeah you could doubt anything, so do I.
There's chance that J-11D, J-16, J20 developers can't make sure about the time of mass production.
A design always look advance in paper, the real performance is more important, and it seem that they can't make sure that on J-11D, J16, J20, J31... atm.
While Su-35 is the lively advanced design, although it's not new.

24x Su-35, equally an air squadron quantity, similar to S-300/S-400 purchase, could deploy to the most important site of China.
If the performance of Su-35 is as expected, we could expect there's next orders.
24x is normal quantity for first order.

And I am wrong to conclude Su-35 delivered on or about 2018-2020.
Maybe China ordered small quantity 24x for fast delivery, we expect in 2017.

In 1991 China purchased an initial batch of 24 single-seat SU-27s for about $1 billion which were delivered in late 1992 and based at Wuhu Air Base, 250 kilometers west of Shanghai. In May 1995 China purchased a second batch of 24 SU-27 aircraft through Russia's main state-run arms exporting company Rosvooruzheniye. These were delivered in April 1996 and based at Suixi Air Base in Southern China.

 

[Economic superpower]

There are some facts
1. SU 35 is better than any type of Chinese aircraft atm.
2. 24x is the normal qty for first order. Study this and you find most of first order always like that.
3. Delivery time is not tomorrow or next year.
4. Spare parts, weapons purchase, maintenance facility.. Are essential for any type of aircraft.
5. Russia must have better aircraft on hands

Those are all strawman arguments, not facts. Don't pretend you're not trolling, when you clearly are.

 

[BoQ77]

There are some facts
1. SU 35 is better than any type of Chinese aircraft atm.
2. 24x is the normal qty for first order. Study this and you find most of first order always like that.
3. Delivery time is not tomorrow or next year.
4. Spare parts, weapons purchase, maintenance facility.. Are essential for any type of aircraft.
5. Russia must have better aircraft on hands

Ur fact is nothing ... don't simply make the conclusion for China. U don't read the agreement in Moscow ... just watch this thread, didn't u already make many conclusions in this place ?

Those are all strawman arguments, not facts. Don't pretend you're not trolling, when you clearly are.

Let write your own arguments.

 

[Economic superpower]

Let write your own arguments.

Don't need to, you only troll so no point having proper arguments with a troll.

You have been banned numerous times for trolling which is why you're too scared to come to China & Far East section.

 

[BoQ77]

Don't need to, you only troll so no point having proper arguments with a troll.

You have been banned numerous times for trolling which is why you're too scared to come to China & Far East section.

You are trolling here.

 

[Economic superpower]

You are trolling here.

Pot calling the kettle black.